BS-87

packsaddle - Are you just baiting "birthers" to disprove them with the facts you have, or did you post this thread with the intention of legitimate debate?

Beavah - That's not fair, you already know I'm not a birther. I know Hawaii is US Soil and our POTUS is a citizen born in America. What we all know is that he's not a "natural born" citizen in the original sense of the term under English Common Law. The only question here is whether or not the 14th Amendment nullifies the distinction between "native born" and "natural born"

To Merlyn and Beavah A military base constitutes US soil. If that's the biggest argument you can find against my points, I'm afraid to say my concerns are valid. Also, at that point in time when McCain was born, the Panama Canal Zone was a US holding.(This message has been edited by BS-87)

I'm not a "birther" because I believe our POTUS was born in Honolulu. I do question his eligibility though. This is because he is a "native born citizen" and not a "natural born citizen" as the Constitution requires for the Presidency. The difference is that a "native born citizen" only has to be born on American soil. A "natural born citizen" was defined in the Laws of Nations (which our Founding Fathers referenced often in writing our official federal documents like the Constitution) as someone who is born on the nation's soil to parents who are both citizens of that nation with no

83Eagle - Which District you with? I grew up in Wolf River District, which is now in Gathering Waters

Oak Tree - Playing fast and loose with YP guidelines may not indicate abuse in scouting scenarios, but it definitely is a characteristic of an abuser. It's like dropping a frog in a pot of boiling water, he'll jump out. But put the frog in cold water and slowly heat it to a boil and he'll remain in until his demise.

Very right BP! I'm waiting for the day I watch Obama's concession speech, and then the feed is switched to the Republican room in celebration as Trump steps up to the podium and yells "Barack Obama, You're Fired!"

Ha! Apparently I'm psychic by 1 minute and 51 seconds...

OGE has it right. You do not take YP issues lightly. If it's minor, your SE will almost have a "and you bothered calling me why now?" tone when you let him know, but at least you've followed the protocol in place to protect boys. The most trustworthy of men in the most innocent of circumstances can commit the most atrocious of evils. It's better to have there be no question rather than a 90% sure there's no problem.

It should be reported to the SE. Your SE will ask if this has happened before. If it's not a common thing, or it's a fluke solved by a reminder, he'll probably say not to make a huge deal of it, as that could startle the scout. If you call again in a few months saying something similar happened again, the SE will probably be sending that SM a letter, and you will be looking for a new SM.

Doc Meyer - That's going a little too far. This isn't a forum for infighting. This whole thread should be in Council Relations anyway...

From Public Policy Polling: Trump's broken the perpetual gridlock we've found at the top of the Republican field, getting 26% to 17% for Mike Huckabee, 15% for Romney, 11% for Newt Gingrich, 8% for Sarah Palin, 5% for Ron Paul, and 4% for Michele Bachmann and Tim Pawlenty. The Official Frontrunners Donald Trump - 26% - personally funded Mike Huckabee - 17% - far behind on fundraising Mitt Romney - 15% - 3rd in fundraising and personally funded Newt Gingrich - 11% - fundraising unknown End Top Tier/ Top 4 Sarah Palin - 8% - fundraising unknown Ron Paul - 5% -

Hey there! What council do you hail from? (being a product of Wisconsin though I may now be transplanted)

Basement, I know you're a great volunteer because I've seen many Cubmasters and Scoutmasters (far more Scoutmasters actually) just like you. I truly understand your opinions, as they were the opinions of my Unit's leaders when I was a boy. However, having had the opportunity to serve at the District level, we find there are definitely mal-contents out there. There has to be some reason your District and Council do what they do. I just want you to know they're out there for the good of boys, just like you are, it's just that you have differing opinions on how to do it than them. Talk to t

KC9DDI and Doc Meyer - Well said

It sounds like you have a highly operational District and Council! Congratulations, your professional staff has achieved the ultimate goal of putting power in the hands of the volunteers! Some districts and councils do start failing though, and so professionals need to step in all over the place, stretching themselves too thin and ultimately this hurts the program all around. There is so much organization that you don't see, and should never have to see if the professionals are doing their job right. Your district and council should be highly commended, because they've achi

Basementdweller - Your district wants to have a better relationship with your unit. Your council wants to have a better relationship with your unit. You're an experienced scouter, and we're all in this for the same thing! It's not like your DE and SE think this is a get rich quick scheme. We are ONE BSA. You are your district, your council, and national because you are a member. You have the opportunity to be an agent of change if things aren't going as you see fit. Please embrace the organization instead of playing victim.

> Ask for a copy. There are no secrets in scouting. Your council should have nothing to be ashamed of, and would gladly give you a copy. If they refuse... please please please contact their Area Director.

Also, on a mod note. Can this be moved to Council Relations?

To 83Eagle, Oak Tree, etc... In my district, the DE does many presentations, but in most of them the Unit Leader and/or Committee Chair will do the presentation. This is because those leaders understand more than anyone else the support they receive from the district and council, as it's relevant to them. A DE may know what they offer in general, but it takes someone committed to that Unit to really tell them what makes this support important, and which support/programs they couldn't function without. It's unfortunate your council has been a mess for 30 years, there's a unit in our

@Abel Magwitch It's thinking like that which leads to FoS support fading, council employees getting laid off, Districts merging, Councils merging, less support from professionals to district leadership, less support from district leadership to commissioners, committee members, and unit leaders, less support from those groups to units in general, and then finally less support from units to the boys in their community. When more people are involved in the process, more gets done and a better program exists. More people are also more expensive. Council get run into the red for that reas

With no intention to be offensive to those of you who are complaining about FoS, do you not understand that Scouting exists outside your unit? Your unit focus is great, that's exactly where 99% of your time and thoughts need to be. But this is a nationwide movement. Where you succeed, others are failing, and it's because they don't have the resources to make their program successful. They lack membership, money, and manpower, and you do not. If the prices increase for everybody, we lose membership and create a financial barrier to joining. That is the fallacy of taxation. If you inc

Your DD and possibly the professional staff in your council as a whole may be "trained" but they probably just don't know how to convey that they're people too who require a salary that's modest, but not insulting to their talent. The council's outreach programs is something many parents and leaders don't understand. Council's actually hire people part-time to serve hard-to-serve groups and schools. Your community is blessed to have you as a leader and a Pack that can sustain itself, but that's because there's a history of it. In some communities, it's hard to establish that precedent, an

If a council has a lot of "Friends", they can afford to provide more and better programming. When the perception arises that the professional staff is going out and doing presentations to beg for their salary, FoS is an abomination instead of the goodwill it should be. Think of it this way. Do you work for free? Does your boss work for free? The fact of the matter is you are a customer of a strong, historical national program for your son, and that program is not free to run. Unlike when you buy gas or get your carpet cleaned, you get to decide how much this program for your boy (whi

The frontrunners as of 4/8/11: Mitt Romney - because he has been since day one, but is losing ground fast Michelle Bachmann - Tea Party favorite and 2nd in 1Q fundraising Donald Trump - Recently placed second in a poll of potential candidates Mike Huckabee - has been top-tier since day one, and is tied with The Donald for second in polling Ron Paul - Libertarian favorite and 1st in 1Q fundraising Second Tier Candidates as of 4/8/11: Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty, Newt Gingrich, Herman Cain, Rick Santorum, Rand Paul