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Eagle94-A1

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Posts posted by Eagle94-A1

  1. I think I will keep my old uniform. Pants, hat, socks, and basic insignia ( world crest, ring, and WRONG (emphasis) council patch is $120. Can't get a shirt on the uniform builder.

     

  2. 3 hours ago, Roadkill Patrol said:

    Camp commissioners could not get them to change either and the only fix was to bring in a portable foot-pump handwashing station for us to use, or travel 3 campsites away to use the nearest empty campsite facility.  We had twice the number of people that had to use the facilities.

    If the camp commissioners and other staff are not doing their job, go to another camp.

    • Upvote 1
  3. 1 hour ago, PACAN said:

    There is theory and reality in the OP question.

    Question for the former pros here....Did you receive any Customer Service training in your job?   and  Did you receive any "how to "manage" a volunteer workforce" training?

    Seems like obvious necessary training for a DE to me since your workforce can make or break you.   If the DE has a "I'm in charge" attitude then his volunteers will say "Yes you are", and you will fail quickly.   Servant Leadership is essential.

    JMHO.

     

    Back in the day, yes.  We were constantly told "you need to multiply ourselves" in regards to volunteer recruitment and customer service. This was at national training.

    On the local level, the focus of in-house training was to recruit "yes men" on the district committee so they can do what you tell them.

    1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    When I first met our new SE, I asked him, "What is your biggest headache?"

    He answered, "When volunteers put on a uniform and think they know more than professionals.."

    ...And most of them DO know more than any of our professionals.

    Sadly this is truth. I know people who have been asked to take down national announcements from district webpages.  When I had a DE, I told him stuff before the SE did a lot.

     

    CLARIFICATION ON OP, when I said council was not going to make enough money, they want a "surplus" budgeted to go to council in addition to the "emergency fund" which if not used goes to council.

  4. 18 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

    I do honestly wonder what the DE for our district does for 40 hours per week.  We really have no idea as we never see him and no value is brought by him.  We had one question about the new recharter process and concerns with UMC, got a really snotty response, so said see ya.

     

    Once upon a time I knew exactly what a DE did, because I was one. And depending upon time of year, we did a lot more than 40 hours, not including on-call time.  One of my buddies did the calculations, if we were not exempt, we would be making less than the minimum wage of the time. 

    However, I am clueless today. All I can think is driving places as the district sizes in my neck of the woods increased dramatically.  My district went from 2 counties, to 7 counties overnite.

    Back in the day, the focus was MONEY, MEMBERSHIP MANPOWER, and the order of importance depended upon the SE, and to a lesser degree time of year. Today it seems money.

    fundraising was suppose to support the program to keep costs down for the Scouts. Let's face it, camps need year round maintenance, not just in the summer. Folks need certifications to conduct events. Units need recruiting supplies. And yes part of the money paid for the pros, but we were doing things that would be difficult for volunteers to do, i.e. getting into the schools in the day to recruit,  making a 3 hour round trip to drop off supplies for a district event, getting to a district event before gates open to things set up, etc.

    However I am seeing camps fall apart and getting sold, volunteers are having to pay to get certified to hold events, units have to make or buy their own recruiting materials, pro's won't  talk to the school system to get into the school, And you do not see pros district events, let alone setting up for it. As for getting supplies, they do not get you enough, requiring  you to buy extra locally (or if patches make a second order costing more money than if they got the original amount), do not get the supplies you requested (causing to to purchase locally at a high cost), or scheduling a conflicting event at the same location (creating chaos because of lack of communication with event organizers, and office staff who also know nothing about the event they put on the calendar).

    Membership was also big. Getting into schools, doing the talks, helping organize public events that would attract folks, etc. Heck one of my friends turned his vehicle into a Mobil recruiting  advertisement complete with a filing system in the hatch with not only applications, but other supplies. I cannot remember the last time a SE got into a school to do recruiting.

    Manpower, or recruiting adult volunteers not only for units, but the district, was important. I usually combined recruiting unit adults with recruiting Scouts. Recruiting adults for events was more challenging as I had to meet with them on their schedule. I also had to be prepared to answer questions, give advice, etc. And I also had to help at events they were in charge of. 

    Today, as I mentioned above, the professionals seem to cause more problems than help. I and other have asked for help with events, with at best little to no help, at worst being ignored, yelled, or cursed out. As I mentioned, at best a lot of good volunteers no longer want to help run district events and focus on their units instead. Worse they quit altogether. Worst, especially those in the business community and are FOS contributors, they quit giving to FOS, and talk to their buddies about the abuse they got who also quit giving. When I calculate what FOS then is worth today, and figure out how much our goals are today, it is frightening. The goal for my area today is 8.8% of what I was raising. membership dropping is part of it. But the bulk of that is a result of business no longer giving. Word does indeed get around.

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  5. 2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

    Councils are intended to support Units.  A unit exists to work with a Chartered Organization to operate unit programming for young people.  A council exists to grow, improve and preserve Scouting at the unit level through its professional and volunteer staff.  It also exists to provide program opportunities that a unit cannot conduct by itself (like summer camp and certain activities).  Councils exist to protect the overall organization and members (especially youth) by assuring adherence to policies on things like advancement, life safety and YPT.  Essentially, councils exist to serve units, but units are responsible to be active partners in that process.  Units and their volunteers do not serve or “work for” the councils.

    So if a council is not doing there part and supporting units, are units still responsible for supporting the council?

     

    2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

    The single best thing a council does is to work to support units to operate in a quality manner, and it does this via its district executives and volunteer district committees and commissioners. 

    What happens if they alienate their district volunteers, causing them to focus on their units, or quit altogether? It has gotten to the point where units are looking for ways to switch to another council.  

    2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

    Putting on events like camporees is really a secondary function of districts and the quality of these activities is always dependent on the quality of the volunteers involved.  District camporees are normally cancelled only when the organizers have done such a poor job that the event is destined to be a fiasco for program and financial reasons – and there is no advantage in allowing a fiasco

    The factors you raise indicate there are probably programming, scheduling, planning and financial mistakes being made.

    The official reason for canceling there is lack of MBCs  All MBCs, were dropped by my council, even if registered in a unit. Irony of that reason is Council in a newsletter stated they were aware of the problem, and that  MBCs with units are still MBCs while the council is trying to fix the records. And last time I talked to event organizers, only 2 MB classes still needed MBCs, and I could teach one of them in addition to the one I volunteered for. And the event has gone on for over 30 years, so it is not a quality issue.

    2 hours ago, Cburkhardt said:

     Consider volunteering to help to help organize your next district camporee to assure a steady organizing and execution process.  Finally, accept that these events are often less-than-perfect.

    I was actually suppose to staff this event. And I have helped run events in the past. At least for the past 10+ years, when council intervenes, there are major problems.  I have had events where supplies I requested months in advance were not ordered, and had to be purchases locally, at a much higher price, the day before and of the event. I have had patch orders which used previous event stats to calculate, downsized to the point where enough patches were not ordered, and a second order needed to be made due to complaints. That cost them more money than the original order would have AND alienated volunteers. Worse, I have seen a camporee chief get yelled and cursed out at by a pro. A lot of folks are tired of the abuse.

    • Upvote 1
  6. Not in a good mood. I found out that my council cancelled a district event for the second time, with 8 days notice. Apparently they were not going to make enough money on the event, so they cancelled it, leaving units and volunteers who planned to attend and staff the event high and dry. As I mentioned, this is the second time they cancelled an event on short noticed. The first event was cancelled because it was "competing" with another, similar event. Yet the first event was an annual event for over 30 years, and the "competing" event only started before COVID, and didn't happen again until this year. The new event could not handle the extra participants from the first event when they tried to do that event instead.As for summer camp, there are so many issues, most units go out of council. Folks for years have given feedback to the powers that be for years, and it has fallen on deaf ears. So the council is not providing the programming opportunities they promised, which hurts units. I've already mentioned the recruiting challenges in other posts that council will not help units with.

    But here is the kicker, the council complains when units do not want to do FOS presentations. They complain when troops do not want to go to the council's summer camp. And they are now complaining folks do not want to do their weekend activities.

    So the question is, Do units support the council, or council supports the units?

  7. 29 minutes ago, DannyG said:

    We have several college-aged scouts registered as Unit College Scouter Reserve instead of ASM. Less commitment. It keeps them on the charter so they can attend 1 or 2 events per year they are available. But they spend most of their time at college.

    Yes, but they have to give up their under 18 friends in Scouting per GTSS YP rules, which many refuse to do in this area.

     

  8. 3 hours ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

    Time for a REI x BSA collab? 😄

    REI will not partner with BSA because of our shooting sports program. There are also other differences, but the shooting sports is a big one. None of their partners have anything to do with shooting sports. Why you no longer see ALPS Mountaineering sold by REI. 

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  9. As a former National Supply employee, I can tell you first hand that most folks working for them have little to no experience in the program. I was part of a pilot program because I had the experience they needed.  EVERY. SINGLE. DECISION. WAS. QUESTIONED. BY . THE. BOSS! (Major emphasis). We had merchandise we did not need, and not enough merchandise that was needed. I routinely told them stuff that was coming down the line would be a waste of time and money, and was right.

    Sadly the same thing happens today. I have heard a lot of complaints about the women's uniforms not fitting. All yo need to do is look at the designer, and her bio with no outdoor experience. Marketing folks who have no idea about the product. And I can go on.

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  10. 1 hour ago, PACAN said:

    Nationally we dropped from 923,399 in January 2023 to 893,117 in January 2024, a -3.28 % loss.

    I bet the loss is greater than that. I just checked my Charter last night, and one of my Scouts who aged out last year is still listed, despite us dropping him and not paying for him. He has already stated he will not stay on as an ASM because he refuses to give up his friends, and he is in college.

  11. 1 hour ago, Jameson76 said:

    Were all of the rides, slides, walls, attractions ever fully opened?  Even in the big pre-covid ones in 2013 and 2017 weren't some areas not fully opened due to staffing challenges?

    Wasn't that because they placed restrictions on who could work, and then later rescinded those restriction, to late for many prior Staffers who were rejected to make arrangements to staff?

  12. Forgot to add, these are some of the reasons that unit serving folks are not happy with councils, and see no reason to support them.

    Also when a council asks for 20%-50% of a unit fundraiser in order to approve it, and they are doing nothing to help you, folks get resentful.

  13. 1 hour ago, SNEScouter said:

    You seem to think that financial support of the council does not support "Scouting."  That's concerning.

    BSA has lots of rules and guidelines about how units are to finance their operations, etc., and who can solicit funds from outside sources.  (Spoiler - the unit cannot solicit).  They're not perfect but they're the rules and simply circumventing them or flouting them isn't the answer IMHO.

    With respect, some councils do an excellent job supporting Scouting, and others do not.

    When folks ask for help from the council with recruiting new Scouts, and the council gives none, that is not supporting Scouting.

    When folks provide a budget, list of supplies, vendors, and costs with enough time to get them, only for council to ignore everything, causing the event organizing to run around last minute to get supplies locally for a higher price, and then blames them for going overbudget, that is not supporting Scouting.

    When folks secure a donor for an event, covers the cost of the event so prices can drop the price allowing as many Scouts to attend as possible, and they still want the original budgeted price so they can make more money,  that is not supporting Scouting.

    When a group of volunteers who are experts in architecture and construction come to you with plans to build a needed facility comes to the council with building plans up to code specification, environmental studies, etc and a list of vendors to build it AND folks pledged to pay for the building, And council you dismiss it out of hand, that is not supporting. Scouting.

    You can guess what type of council mine has been

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  14. 2 hours ago, Smokediver said:

    This attitude that everyone is guilty no matter what the courts say is ridiculous and even though this is a private organization they still should allow for due process , I believe that if a person is found responsible in a court of law then they should be removed from the program, but if there are only accusations and unfounded criminal investigations then the person should be allowed to resume their Scouting activities.

    Respectfully disagree. Even though the IVF has been used against the BSA in the lawsuit, at the time it was one of the best protections for youth. There are cases in there where the parents refused to prosecute the perpetrator, so it was never brought to court. One victim posted information about his perp where the records stated the parents did not want to have their children tesitify in a court martial.  Perp went to a psych hospital, and was medically discharged. Only the IVF prevented him from working for the BSA, as he applied to a job. 

     

    NOW, if you are declared innocent, then I think you should be reinstated.

    • Upvote 3
  15. 1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

    I know a Vigil Honor member who was accused of murder, convicted, and exonerated on appeal.

    It was appropriate that they put him in the IVF during the trail and after convicted.  But once exonerated... ???

    They will never re-instate him, even though our justice system cleared him, and expunged that record.  I think because there is now an easily accessible electronic history of news articles, and that would make people nervous.

    BSA considers him "damaged goods".

    My friend above didn't even get a trial.  She was removed, even when the criminal investigation supported her side of the story. BSA considered her "damaged goods."

    • Upvote 1
  16. Good luck.

    I am not trying to be a pessimist, but a realist. I have read of only 2 cases of reinstatement, and you cited one of them. The other case was a guy who walked into a bar in uniform. Long story short, before the age of cell phones, scout bus broke down in the middle of nowhere. SM walked over a mile one way to the first place that had a phone, which happened to be a bar. He called a tow company and a parent to let folks know what is going on, and left the bar. HOWEVER someone saw him, and reported him. It took him over a 18 months to get reinstated.

    Sadly the case I am personally aware of the Scouter was never reinstated, despite the fact the accuser had a history of lying to get out of trouble and the criminal investigation showed that he was indeed a peeping Tom spying on the female Scouter in the shower after hours. She was able to attend the Council awards banquet, as a parent, when her son was recognized as an Eagle. It got awkward when it came time for Silver Beaver recognition. They asked all previous SB recipients to stand and be recognized. Her friends that supported her urged her to stand as a Silver Beaver recipient the previous year, and she did. 

  17. 21 minutes ago, Ojoman said:

    Not too sure about the insurance companies... if the chartered partners are put at risk they were covered by the blanket liability from the mid 70's.

    This is what I wonder about. Will BSA, and the insurance companies, actually honor those policies, or see it as "3rd party releases" and not valid.

     

     

  18. Crazy Questions, so here it goes. if SCOTUS rules against Perdue, and hence against BSA current plan, and all councils and COs are responsible, A. does that mean those organizations that contributed to the fund get their money back and B. for those post 1976 claims, will BSA honor their obligations with COs, or will COs have to sue for BSA to honor their obligations to the COs?

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