Brewmeister

Having fun in the woods is great stuff. However, one purpose of Scouting is to develop the mindset of approaching adulthood. It may seem a long way off, but some of us are slow learners.

 

For this reason, Personal Management is one of the more important merit badges on offer. Way too many families are living paycheck to paycheck (or worse), yet their homes are chock-a-block with the latest bling. If they had learned the rudiments of budgeting and planning, they may have been better able to weather the economic storms that appear in all our lives. The only change I would make to Per. Mgmnt. is to show how to balance a checkbook and what happens when you're overdrawn.

 

100 mb in 3 years? That's 3 per month, so doable with good PERT and CPM skills as some mb only take a day even if done correctly. Even more impressive, though, would be 40 - 50 merit badges plus the Hornaday Medal.

 

(Wow! This site seems to work a lot better!)

Kudu, you keep undercutting your own argument with your examples and analogies.

 

"To take care of themselves and others."

"Those of us inside the program usually would like Eagle Scouts to be the perfect shining example of All Things Scouting. We sometimes forget it is really a journey from ackward middle schooler to mature young man."

 

True words indeed.

Like I said it depends on the what is meant by "work with," which has not been spelled out by the OP. The scoutmaster is responsible for providing training to the patrol leaders, whether via troop leadership skills training or a matter of routine diligence. It could be simply that he is delegating some of that to ASMs he trusts for matters of schedule, etc. If he is asking adults to be de facto "Den Leaders" that is another matter.

Another Lazarus thread….

EDGE is required for people to be Trainer's. Not just Wood Badge. The Cubscout Program is changing in 2015. Philmont Training Center has a course that explains/trains about it this Summer. I like the coming changes. Having people fully understand what is required for the Program is a good thing, since what is done in Den/Pack meetings vary wildly from Unit to Unit. Plus having people trained in what the Program is and how to put it on will help retain Scouts, Scouters & Parents within the program and get them to the next level. Plus, if everyone in the Pack Committee understands what is supposed to happen, then there will be/should be less headaches.

 

EDGE training besides what's in a Troop, is based upon how to provide better training to those who show up. It's a good class. I have taken it and helped put it on. Besides, if you have Trainer's who are training and do not have EDGE, technically, those Training Cards are not vaild... EDGE Training is valid for three years.

Very, very carefully

It really depends on what "work with" means.

This is a false analogy.

 

It is not an analogy.

 

The distain with which most boys hold schoolwork Scouting is literal, not figurative.

 

Simply put, we can destroy any sport by doing to it what Merit Badges and "leadership skills" do to Scouting. All we need is a government-imposed monopoly. What modern Republicans call "socialism."

 

The purpose of football (or any sport) is to teach the players to play football. Period.

That is exactly wrong. Period.

 

Ask any parent why their son participates in sports. You will get idealistic reasons similar to your so-called "purpose of Scouting" (teamwork, sportsmanship, exercise, sharpness of mind, mental strength; emotional, psychological, and social health; self-esteem, self-worth, peer status, peer acceptance, etc.).

 

The difference between sports and Scouts is that, in a free market, we can not replace ball proficiency with schoolwork and office management "teamwork" metaphors. Boys would simply leave a Scout-like office cubical sport, unless their parents forced them to add a Heisman Trophy Award to their resumes for earning seatwork Personal Management and Citizenship hat pins in a game with the 300 feet removed from between end zones.

 

But woe be unto any boy who cheapens the integrity of seatwork football's highest award by earning all 134 classroom hat pins by the age of thirteen!

 

Even the congressional charter' date=' which you often cite, specifies a much broader purpose of Scouting: "[T']he ability of boys to do things for themselves and others." Scoutcraft is but one part of that; "teaching" is explicitly cited as another.

 

The Charter lists Scoutcraft as one of the three aims of Scouting. What all adults who love schoolwork Merit Badges (and office cubical Wood Badge) omit is the Charter's primary stipulation: "using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916."

 

The purpose of the Congressional Charter was to establish a government-imposed monopoly to protect the YMCA's adult-led night school/summer camp program from competition from real Scouting.

 

HOWEVER, That was in return for Scoutcraft as it was defined in 1916 (based on a lite version of the First Class Journey).

 

Our Scouting monopoly is typical of socialism in general: Most "21st century" Eagle Scouts can not pass the First Class Scoutcraft tests of 1916.

 

So we make indoor Scouting's primary "ethical choice:" Rather than cancel after-school school, we cheat millions of red-blooded American boys out of the Scoutcraft program guaranteed to them by an Act of Congress.

 

And we wonder why they leave.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

I don't disagree with your assessment that there is too much "homework" in the scouting program; merit badges in particular. However, earning those badges is not required for participation in the program. Call them "electives." Just like players who are most interested in the football program will spend time on their own studying play books, game film, in the weight room, etc., to gain the most from the program and achieve excellence in their craft, so will boys who are the most interested in the scouting program make use of all it has to offer, including time playing on the field (camping) and on their own (merit badges).

 

You draw the equation Scouting=Camping. However, Scouting is more than simply a camping club. The fact that scouting offers more and has a broader mission than you would prefer is a strength of the program, and not a weakness.

 

As to boys leaving scouting, boys are leaving sporting programs as well. Little league participation has been steadily declining, and that certainly is not because it has replaced batting practice with bookwork.

Anyone ever think we should set a Standard Number of Merit Badges and do away with all the Fluff ones?

We need to concentrate on certain Skills and their Knowledge retention. What good is a 134 Merit Badge Eagle who can't remember how to Stop Bleeding or perform CPR no matter what age they are 13 or 18 or anywhere in between.

 

You can't possibly mean Scouting as it was understood by Baden-Powell: Proficiency Badges that measure a Scout's current proficiency in Boy Scout skills only?

 

Bad idea!

 

That would attract boys who like camping, in the same way that basketball teams attract boys who like basketball, baseball teams attract boys who like baseball, football teams attract boys who like football, and soccer teams attract boys who like soccer.

 

The Merit Badge system is designed for adults with a marginal interest in Cub Scout outdoor skills for teens, but seek to make up for the shortcomings of the public school system by turning Scouting into after-school school.

 

Oh, the horror that a Boy Scout might pick up Personal Management in a one hour trick-or-treat session, while we struggle to uphold the standards that most red-blooded outdoor boys hate, have always hated, and will continue to hate until the end of time.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

This is a false analogy.

 

The purpose of football (or any sport) is to teach the players to play football. Period.

 

The purpose of Scouting is "to train youth in responsible citizenship, character development, and self-reliance through participation in a wide range of outdoor activities, educational programs, and, at older age levels, career-oriented programs in partnership with community organizations."

 

Even the congressional charter, which you often cite, specifies a much broader purpose of Scouting: "[T]he ability of boys to do things for themselves and others." Scoutcraft is but one part of that; "teaching" is explicitly cited as another.

Hi Ksokolik,

 

I am a sadder but wiser former Cub Scout treasurer. Thank you for donating your time and effort to the kids.

 

Your DE is wrong about suggesting that you use your personal SS# to open the account. It is a bad idea for all the reasons you stated and more, plus it's against BSA's national fiscal guidelines, which you would reasonably expect a DE to know: http://www.bsaseabase.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/Fiscal_Policies_and_Procedures_for_BSA_Units.pdf

 

I walked into a perfect storm of bad bookkeeping and poor leadership. Our pack had not filed taxes on its income for seven years prior to my taking the job, nor had the chartering organization (on the pack's income). What I learned from my own experience is that much of what the BSA and the pack leaders insisted was true is wrong.

 

Having been through an IRS enforcement action as a teenager when my parents got in trouble for unfiled taxes, I was aware that most of what the Council and the pack leaders were telling me was incorrect. After being told to "not discuss the subject further with anyone" by the Council and the pack (and I mean calling me at home repeatedly and chewing me out), I went to my CPA to verify that my concerns were valid.

 

According to the CPA, they were. I followed the CPA's instructions (and the IRS written guidelines, and what I had been personally told by the IRS enforcement agent during my parents' ordeal), gave all the appropriate figures in writing to all the people who were supposed to file them with the IRS at the CO and the pack, and had my name removed from the bank account.

 

I know from hard personal experience that if you can sign a check, you can be held liable for unfiled or unpaid taxes. When it comes to any question of personal tax liability, I want answers from someone who is educated and licensed to give tax advice in my state. That means a CPA, tax attorney, or similar. NOT the DE, the Council, the pack leader who works at a hardware store, or the stay at home mom in charge of the CO (PTA).

 

It is not appropriate for the BSA to harass a volunteer because he or she consulted a CPA, insurance agent, or anyone else to make sure that the BSA's instructions would not lead to personal liability or problems. I quit. I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for the BSA.

 

Honestly, if your DE can't even correctly relay the BSA's own two page handout on fiscal policies for units, why would anyone trust him to give accurate advice on dealing with federal taxes?

 

For your own sake, please get professional advice on how to handle this. Being a treasurer for any group is a big responsibility, and you can be held personally liable if things aren't done correctly.

 

Good luck,

 

GeorgiaMom

GM, It says right in the document that you posted that units do not need to file a tax return.

The fault lies in the people, not in the program.

 

There are police officers, teachers, religious leaders, and lots of other people in professions that require far more training than earning the Eagle rank who commit immoral or illegal acts.

 

Becoming an Eagle does not make somebody more than human.

First off, thanks for reminding me why boy scouts is so much more enjoyable than cub scouts...

 

I suggest letting them run with it, with a few parameters. As WDL I told the boys they had to come up with a story--not just a big epic battle with puppets hitting each other. So it needed a beginning, a middle, and an ending. Then create characters and puppets to match. Rehearse the story and put on the show. It worked out pretty well.

 

Not sure what's worse; drinking your own pee or drinking snake blood like I saw him doing on a show last night. I hope to never find out the answer.

Hennessey is having their winter sale where you can get a free "Cub" model with the purchase of a regular hammock.

 

http://hennessyhammock.com

I seriously wonder why the practice of having ladies as den leaders. I think the boys would have much more fun with guy leaders. I try, I really do, but I know that guys would let loose and allow the boys more fun.

It goes back to the whole "Den Mother" thing. I agree with Stosh's assessment, and unfortunately it has tended to keep the CS program rooted in arts-and-crafts rather than the outdoors.

Why is it that any time some boy achieves something exceptional, there are so many that come out of the woodwork on this board and claim that something must be fishy even though they know absolutely nothing about the situation?

 

There are plenty of stories to be found about exceptional children achieving remarkable things in other endeavors…amazing athletes…genius boys and girls who are attending college when their age-peers are in middle school. Some people are just exceptional or achieve exceptional things.

 

All you folks looking down your noses from a position of ignorance are a bunch of knuckleheads.

Funny you should try to call me out on this basement since you were the first one to trot out the "it doesn't smell right" criticism, yet again. Without fail you are the first person to start chucking rocks the minute someone who you don't know, or some situation you couldn't have any way of knowing, doesn't live up to the standards of the perfect program that apparently only you can run. Frankly I'm sick and tired of reading your drivel that rarely, if ever, adds anything to the discussion, and from here on out you're just going to go on the old ignore list with the other knuckleheads so your ramblings don't clutter up my page any more.

 

To everyone else:

 

On one hand, this is a monumental task that obviously couldn't have been completed unless mom and dad were merit badge counselors who were pencil whipping the lad through the requirements.

 

But of course on the other hand, merit badges don't really prove anything because they ain't all that hard, it's a shame the boy ain't doing any real scouting, etc etc etc.

 

So…which is it?

Why is it that any time some boy achieves something exceptional, there are so many that come out of the woodwork on this board and claim that something must be fishy even though they know absolutely nothing about the situation?

 

There are plenty of stories to be found about exceptional children achieving remarkable things in other endeavors…amazing athletes…genius boys and girls who are attending college when their age-peers are in middle school. Some people are just exceptional or achieve exceptional things.

 

All you folks looking down your noses from a position of ignorance are a bunch of knuckleheads.

Years from now someone will be posting this same question about marijuana use as more and more states legalize it.

Except the objection to cigarettes has nothing to do with addiction, just more lifestyle control. But we're getting off topic.

Years from now someone will be posting this same question about marijuana use as more and more states legalize it.

Interesting point. Now consider that both alcohol and tobacco are (for the time being) legal....

 

Of course not all tobacco is created equal, and the same folks clamoring to legalize M-J have a conniption if you light up a Camel.

That is the funniest thing I have read this week so far..

 

 

So an organization who you are quitting because you have a moral objection to it's membership policy. Your going to pause long enough to receive it's highest rank. WOW

 

I wonder if they morally object to the point that it doesn't end up on the lads college or job resume. I doubt it......Typical selfish US citizens, Not gonna call them Americans cause that would lump them in with the Canadians and Mexicans which are fine folks.

 

Totally agree. Well, "funniest" isn't the word I would use, but yeah, definitely.

This is not a problem. In my area it is a common fundraising practice for scout units (troops and packs) to run concession stands at professional sporting venues, including "beer only" stands, where the sporting team gives the units a cut of the proceeds.

It means the takers outweigh the makers among those who voted in those elections. Next question.

Those don't look like the "methods which were in common use" in 1916...

I think that's the best of both possible worlds. Parents aren't around to hover but are close by if johnnie needs to go home. I've always found that cubs are much better behaved without parents around and look up to the older scouts.

Yeah, that level of blatant dishonesty deserves to be kicked up a rung or two. Dismissal may be steep, but removal from PORs and an extended period of probation under which he is ineligible for advancement is certainly in order. Any SM conferences or non-advancement boards of review need to include the parents. Honestly, how we resolve things like this depends much on the parent's attitude. If we feel as the parents are supporting and working with us, we are much more likely to let them deal with the situation. If mom and dad come in with an attitude it won't go as well.

Well, a cat and a dog are both mammals, so there you go. Same thing.

How to take an excellent private industry and totally run it into the ground so that an ineffectual government boondoggle can replace it? Well, we now know. Insurance companies are dumping people right and left, others left with no insurance and can't sign up for the government system and even if they do, doctors are heading out the back door in droves.

 

Yep, we're heading for a single payer system which literally translated means when all is said and done, only the richest guy in the country is going to be able to pay for health care, the rest are on their own.

 

This is quite a legacy this administration is leaving for our children and their children.

This has really been the plan all along. Simply wreck the health insurance system and say "See, the private sector doesn't work! We need the gub'mint to run it all!"