83Eagle

No, ScoutNut, what seems condescending to me is the continued use of made-up terminology like "Webelos 3 Troops."

I've been called a scoutmaster, though I'm not. Our pack has been called a troop, though we're not. Our scouts have been called Boy Scouts, though they're not. A single Webelos scout is quite commonly incorrectly referred to as a Webelo, though he's not.

But I pick my battles on those things, including when a Webelos den leader wants to use the term patrol for dens, though they're not. Truthfully I'm just happy to have a DL who is engaged enough to be forward-looking, and enough interested boys that we have enough for two Webelos dens.

None of those scenarios get my dander up to the extent that the continued use of pejorative terms against cub scouts does. So yes, I do completely agree that terminology can be important.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)

I'm nothing special, just someone who is proud of both my Arrow of Light and of my Eagle, and who feels that both programs are a natural complement to each other if they are run correctly. I mean, we've had what...90 years of the cub scout program?...and it has gone pretty well. It's not like the membership decline happened because we rolled out this newfangled thing called "Cub Scouts" in the 70s.

Perhaps most important, internicene squabbles benefit no one. Give the cubbies some love everyone and quit blaming your recruiting woes on the blue tabs.

Sorry for continuing to take this tread off the topic of den numbers, but the subject came up here and it's one that I feel strongly about.

Oh BTW, our webelos dens have two patrols, two elected denners who operate as patrol leaders, and we will keep doing that. By the same token, we stress to boys that this is only an introduction and that boy scouts is much different.

Likewise, it is incumbent on the leaders of the troop to get boys up to speed when they come in, and work with us beforehand to help boys understand the difference and transition.

I know exactly what you mean. And I recall that scoutnut is a tiger den leader and this is not directed at him. But I am so tired of cub scouts being both the red headed stepchild AND the breadwinner. We constantly read here from experienced scouters about how cub scouts don't belong in the program. However there are twice as many cub scouts as boy scouts.

A lot of the same scouters who look down their noses at cub scouts then expect cub scout packs to feed them a steady stream of new recruits.

Scouters complain that boys are not ready for the model of boy scouts, but how much do they do to reach out to packs and work with them to show them the difference and the benefits?

Instead all we hear is the cub scout program denigrated, and terms like "webelos 3" made up to describe boy scouts who don't measure up to the program in the minds of some.

So yeah, to me making a big deal about terminology is foolish. We dress webelos up in the tan uniform, let them wear boy scout patrol patches, and tell them we are training them for the boy scout program. Picking nits about this kind of stuff does not help.

Careful, momof2, cub scouts is all about arts and crafts and isn't supposed to be real scouting...LOL

Regarding Webelos "patrols," the BSA doesn't help this issue by authorizing patrol patches to be used as "den emblems" for Webelos.

I've learned quickly here that if threads are started by particular posters, they are just another whetstone on which to grind their personal axe...

>>We keep track of everyone's balances at http://www.scoutaccounts.com

I looked at this site and it is not good. Not intuitive and lacking any sort of online instruction, etc. Plus with an inability to export or import anything this is basically double work for the treasurer, who's going to want to keep a backup of any ledger information somewhere (local drive or paper) in case the site goes down and all the scout info is lost.

We'd be much better off setting up a simple Excel spreadsheet that can be emailed to individual scouts, or using some of the "trax" software.

Our pack has never had a fundraising requirement or dues. Obviously this has created problems over time.

This year we are requiring either fundraising or a fee, so you can fundraise to cover your fee, or pay the fee, or some combination.

The question is coming up from the committee in advance of implementing this, "what about hardships?" In other words, in the past without a requirement, it didn't matter if a family didn't fundraise, some other kid who worked his butt off ended up covering them.

My answer is that if you can't afford the fee, fundraise. The counterargument of course is that fundraising is hard, gee we don't want to lose a poor scout if they can't fundraise or pay the money.

So that's the backdrop. I am not asking for an opinion on how to deal with that argument. I am looking for input on how packs with a REQUIREMENT for either a fee or fundraising deal with families who don't fulfill the requirement and ask for a waiver.

I am thinking of doing a silent auction. However I'm not sure of whether to do visible bid sheets or envelopes. I can see benefits and drawbacks to either.

The other packs method does sound like a raffle. I'm not fond of it for several reasons.

But I'd like to do this event near thanksgiving and somehow have it tie in with support for the local food pantry. I'm not sure if that would mean bringining in canned goods, or actually raising funds to donate thru an auction or whatever. I'd have to check if we even could do that given the BSA rules against fundraising for another org; i.e. Salvation army red kettle.

So goal number one is to find a way to make this event fun and interesting in its first year. Looking for ideas on that.

Goal number two is to support the food pantry if possible.

What do you do about cakes that get no bids...very low bids...one cake gets $5 and the other $100? You say the scouts don't care, but...

This also sounds like a popular event for your Pack, given the growth in participation. Is there anything you would do differently though to get stronger participation the first year? New events can be a struggle.

Brilliant! The "air powered marshmallow target launcher" (can we say "shooter") is just what the doctor ordered. Son wants to build it NOW and has very un-scoutlike objectives for said launcher in mind involving his sister. (Not to worry, she's a black belt...)

Keep the ideas coming...

Yes, I meant a bake-off, whatever it's called.

As the other Pack does it, people can buy tickets and put tickets in buckets in front of cakes they want to win. Then tickets are drawn. Money is a fundraiser, or something.

However since no family wins more than once, as more and more cakes are won, it takes longer to find a winner and sometimes there is no winner left in the bucket of a particular cake so it can get tedious, or so it seems to me.

So my thought is to have a fun judging component, and a fundraising component, somehow...

Item four of the Webelos craftsman badge is to create four useful items using materials other than wood. They should be challenging items involving several operations.

Well, a few leather items come to mind and maybe a clay ashtray...er, bowl...but that's about all I got. Anyone got a bunch of other ideas that are actually "useful?"

One of the ideas that came highly recommended to me from another CM was a cub scout cake bake. I am not sure I like all the parts of the event as they ran it, but rather than bore you with the details I'd like to find out how other packs have run this event, lessons learned, etc.

We have over a half dozen summer events. The ones that are closest and free get the most attendance. The ones farther away with a cost, less so.

I don't worry about it. We put on the best program we can for the boys. Part of the reason I want to do a strong summer program is also for recruitment, so we can show new scouts all the fun they can have if they choose.

We ran about 1/2 the Pack at district summer camps, 1/2 at our local parade, 1/3 at an evening cookout/campfire program, and 1/2 combined over the course of the summer volunteering with the local food pantry (we do a half dozen of these and only need a few scouts, so over the summer we get about 1/2 the Pack). One minor league baseball game was very poorly attended but it was on a Saturday, whereas the Girl Scout night was held just a few weeks before (don't ask why the district didn't put them on the same day). Also a drive-in movie night was a bit thin, but it was a bit of a drive to get there so I didn't expect more than about 10% of scouts.

We also promote the "summertime activity" pin, and have 2 different events per month to choose from to get the three that they need. So sometimes once boys have earned the pin they pack it in I guess.

Other than that, sports sports sports...family vacations. Yah, my son makes every event but I'm setting the schedule.

If you have to apologize for a comment before you say it, maybe you just shouldn't say it!!!

I suspect the original poster is referring to a "career arrow" or other such decorated token that commemorates a scout's time in cub scouts.

As to who is responsible for the arrow of light award, it is "just" a cloth patch award that needs an advancement report, so it should be handled by your advancement coordinator, or whoever normally is responsible for procuring other rank badges like Bear, Wolf, etc.

As to any special token, each pack does its own thing.

Maybe it's impossible then to draw a paralell between the different grades/leagues and apply it to CS/BS retention. So, scratch that line of thinking.

However, it does seem safe to say, based on the stats that I've seen, that participation in YOUTH baseball is on the decline--to the order of about 2% per year.

That percentage is, I believe, even higher than the decline in BSA enrollment. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Now, it has been said here that the structure and delivery model of scouting is leading to its decline. In particular, Cub Scouting is criticized as being detrimental to the BSA program because it is not "scouting"--it is arts and crafts, indoors, the best Boy Scouts are those who never went into Cub Scouts, whatever. I'm paraphrasing again.

Furthermore, Little league (let's say more generally, youth baseball) is used as the example of a successful youth program, with good participation and a successful transition model.

However, youth baseball participation is declining, whereas most other youth sports are increasing--particularly soccer, which is somewhat ironic since scouting's "soccer outreach" is also criticized here. (Not a soccer fan myself, no feelings on that matter either way.)

Is it possible other factors in play among today's youth?

A claim related to Cub Scouting that has been made in these forumsand I am going to paraphrase hereis that Cub Scouting impedes the recruitment of real Boy Scouts and is one of the reasons behind the decline in Boy Scout enrollment over time. Furthermore, the example of little league has been used to show how a successful youth-to-young-adult transition program would actually work.

I thought I would do a little research into this topic whilst DW queued up a rather uninteresting movie last night. Well, it doesnt take too much research to find some interesting facts about little league. Look up little league decline. The number of players declined 24% from 2000 to 2009about 2% per year, with the number of urban players dropping even more. In contrast, just about every other sport has grown in enrollment

Now, lets look at the retention rate of little league and high school baseball, compared to Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Well, this is a bit of a challenge because of the different brackets of little league divisions. Over 2 million boys play in little league, but its unclear whether those statistics include just the true little league bracket, or whether it includes T-Ball through age 12. Regardless, just 450,000 boys play high school baseballa precipitous decline that most likely meets or exceeds the 50% drop of boys between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

Interesting.

I started reading this thread under the mistaken impression that it had something interesting to say about national forests. Instead it's just a ruse designed to recycle the same anti-scouting propaganda from someone with an axe to grind. Then that same someone waits in the wings to lob ad hominem attacks against any who present counterpoints. Same ol', same ol'.

I don't have time for this, and I certainly don't have time to troll through the forum archives to bring up years-old comments...so I'm done with this one.

I don't believe in Webelos III...your propaganda, not mine.

"Propaganda. Noun: the systematic and repeated dissemination of slogans and phrases designed to shape people's points of view."

Woodbadge sucks, cub scouts sucks, "Webelos IIIs" are killing the program.

Pot, meet kettle...

I don't know if this has ever been discussed here b/c the search feature is not working apparently.

Our pack has been around for a while so we have a lot of ribbons--to the point where the flag is heavy for boys to carry for flag ceremonies.

Do you put just "current" ribbons on the flag and keep the old ones for special occasions or display? Or...???

I thought this could apply to troops as well so I put it in the open forum.