83Eagle
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Posts posted by 83Eagle
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WHAT Webelos training? The online position specific that is just like the other ones for all intents?
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Gee, what are we going to do for the Wolf AND Tiger years? :roll:
The original made the most sense...more of what's on the bottom, less of what's on the top. The second pyramid made no sense.
The plate is visual, but what if I don't like fish?
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I just gotta vent on this one.
Our Den that will be 2nd year Webelos next year has been a challenge for some time. The Den, then Bears, lost its original leader midway through 2009. One of the parents stepped up to take over but by the end of the year, due to some conflicts with another parent in the den, threw up her hands and quit. Amazingly, that other parent volunteered to lead the Den starting last fall, although in retrospect that turned out to be a very bad choice.
This Den had always been on the inactive side compared to other Dens, a situation which became exacerbated under the new DL who believes scouting is "have a meeting, earn a badge" and doesn't care at all for the outdoors. I dont believe ANYONE from the Den made ONE Pack outing outside the monthly meetings during the 2010-2011 school year. Quite often only one scout from the Den was at Pack meetings and the DL was a no-show at a few meetings herself early on.
Things got worse when, halfway through the year, the WDL announced that her family would be moving out of state at the end of the year and that if anyone wanted to take over they were welcome.
Now, we had already been getting occasional complaints from parentspoor communication, why is my WDL not at meetings, boys being awarded Webelos activity badges for things only partially done or not done at all, etc. However, none of the parents was willing to step up and take over so we kept the "warm body" in the role. Again, in retrospect, this was probably not the best choice, but in January we were only looking at just over four months left in the school year before she left, and the boys were progressing in advancement, so we figured we could deal with it after she was gone.
Unfortunately, it soon became clear that she was only going to phone it in for the rest of the year. The WDL would consistently not come through on things she had committed to do with or for the Pack and my attempts to work with her on that were unsuccessful. Her Den was supposedly not interested in working with the Boy Scouts or with the older Webelos den on joint activities. Things came to a head a few days before the Blue & Gold when she advised me that her Den would not be participating in the program part of the event because there was again supposedly no interest on the part of the boys--a fact which I knew to be untrue from talking to parents afterward who complained why their boys did not have a performance like the other scouts.
When I circled back to the WDL to express my concern about this, she got defensive and told me she would no longer come to Pack meetings at all for the rest of the year. When I told her that, as DL, she is supposed to be at Pack meetings for her den, her husband called our CC and said if I didnt quit harassing her he would file a complaint. Again, this was probably a point at which it was time to find any other warm body to fill the role, but that too is water over the dam at this point.
So, the Den limped along for two more months as it had been, holding a Den meeting a month and having 1 or 2 of its 5 boys show up at Pack meetings.
Then we have our final Pack meeting in May. All is done, right?
Wrong.
A few days after the final Pack meeting, the DL sends an email to our advancement coordinator asking for Webelos activity pins to award to ALL the boys in the Den. Up until then she had turned in 8 pin requests. She turned in a request for 8 additional pins for all the boys, bringing each to a total of 16.
Really? This coming from a den that held only monthly meetings in the WDL's home, never had a Den outing, had sparse attendance at Pack meetings, never made a Pack outing, and where parents had already expressed concern about awards being given for things not done?
So now we get to deal with this new situation. Proof that problems do not go away just by the passage of time. Yes, you do have to let DLs run their program, and walk the fine line between monitoring and micro-managing. I suppose in this case we should have faced the inevitable World War and fixed this in January rather than kicking the can down the road. Live and learn.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)
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Seattle, I talked about our CC, who is also the COR, in another thread...we're dealing with a 40 year veteran who has basically earned tenure. So we just work around the situation. Not ideal but it could be worse and it's not worth upsetting the pack about, not to mention the community at large that wouldn't understand the coup attempt.
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sashuster, start with small things...
Have the first parents that arrive hand out newsletters. Have parents run games at pack meetings. Get people who aren't wearing a tan shirt in front of the group to help hand out stuff, etc.
Before you close meetings, secure the help you need to clean, etc. or...just...stand...there...watching...the...seconds...tick...by.... I've done that... it works!
Also, get the BOYS to volunteer their parents. At our last pack meeting we needed people to dish up ice cream sundaes. I said "Who wants sundaes?!" Everyone cheers. "Then boys, we need to get three of your parents to volunteer to help serve!"
Yep, we got three volunteers...AND the boys whose parents volunteered got to go first in line.
Small things lead to bigger things...we're making progress.
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HINT: Passing around sign-up sheets, and doing mass cattle calls for help rarely works. The folks who would be a best fit for a specific position need to be identified, and approached individually.
I agree.
BUT...the question is how do you identify those people? In a Pack of 11 like noname has, it might be easier, but even so you still do not know the talents of everyone. This was something I ran into...simply not knowing who to approach other than the few people who always seemed willing to help.
So, where sheets could work, even here, is to distribute a talent survey. You can use the BSA one but I found it not 100% relevant so I created one customized for our pack.
I passed these out at a meeting and asked for them to be returned. Then I looked at who did not turn them in, wrote their name at the top of another sheet, and handed it directly to them at the next pack meeting.
On that sheet in addition to interests I had spots for what people were willing to do. I had a surprising number of people volunteer for things just based on that, including getting a half dozen people for a new fundraising committee.
Either way, getting the form back gives you valuable information you can use to specifically identify certain people who have particular abilities and backgrounds. And if you get back a blank, but signed, form, well that tells you a lot too.
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As a geocacher, a double-bagged regular log book is fine for most purposes. Write-in-the-rain paper is cool but expensive.
However, if it is on the list of stuff to bring then in my opinion it is required to have. It might be worth bringing the attention of the organizer but I would not simply change the requirements.
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We participate in our community memorial day service.
I am both proud of and distressed by the fact that out of 3 Packs that serve the community, ours is consistently the only one represented at the service, and we had 1/3 of our Pack there. Only 2 Boy Scouts. No Girl Scouts.
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The ironic part is that one of the critcisms I have gotten is that I am a "command a control freak" who "expects too much of people." Long story short but that related to my asking a volunteer to actually do what said volunteer had agreed to do in a leadership role, rather than just be a warm body who liked getting dressed up in a tan shirt once a month.
But, we are making progress. Many successes. Many more ideas bubbling up...even though people learned real quick that the response to great ideas is usually "Sounds great, go ahead and do it!" Uhhh...oh...I didn't mean *I* wanted to do it, I wanted you to do it. Not how it works I'm afraid!
Back to the point, I've really gained an appreciation for WHY the Pack was a one-man show, because it is seemingly--but not actually--easier to take on more and more stuff. A lot less interpersonal hassle when you run your Pack like little league.
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When I came into our Pack a few years back as TDL, the Pack was a one-man show. I just assumed this was the way things were supposed to be until I started going to roundtables, talking to other packs, and taking training.
Now, this was not a power play by the prior CM. Really, he had just been doing the job for so long that he got worn down trying to get volunteers so did everything himself. Obviously, that limits how much a Pack can do and makes it terribily difficult to find someone to take over.
As CM my first priority was to "fix" that by stressing this was OUR program and not MY program, by setting the expectation that parents were to be involved, by fully involving volunteers in the pack operations, holding regular leader meetings, and by trying to get the in-name-only committee of 3 warm bodies to take on the responsibilities of an actual planning committee.
I also made it well known that I am on the 2-year plan, not the 20-year plan. So hopefully these changes not only get things running more smoothly and allow us to do more now, but make it easier to make that switch then.
But...change is not easy. Our CC prefers to be uninvolved and tells me "it's your Pack, you're in charge" when I've asked for help, intercession with problems, or opinions. At the parent level, as everyone out there knows, it is always hard to get people to step up. I hate pulling out the big hammer of "we are dropping this event/activity if no one will take it on," especially when it's something that I or my son like to do but really belongs outside the CM role, but sometimes you just have to. And of course, it's been a big change for the Pack--I've had to deal with people who don't understand why they need to get involved at all--after all, they signed Johnny up to be IN Cub Scouts, not for them to run Cub Scouts, right? I've been told, "That's YOUR job."
But, through a combination of enthusiasm, persuasion, and a little coercion, we are getting it done.
So, I can see how Packs can easily devolve into a one-man show. While I'm sure there are Packs out there where one person (CM, CC, or other) tries to exert control because he is a Type A personality, I believe just as often it's because that one man comes to believe "it's just easier if I do it all myself."
No question for the forum, really--just observations/discussion.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)
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ComChr, you will unfortunately find that a few people here compensate for a lack of natural endowment by being big giant ones in cyberspace. If you can learn to separate the wheat from the chaff there is some good info to be gleaned.
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I made a generic version of the handbook we use. Having an 8 page document allows us to print front to back and have it come out even. Obviously this doesn't cover everything, and it was intended to be a FAQ guide based on feedback from parents about what they wished they would have known.
Here is a link, let me know if it does not work.
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I thought the family promise came from some official source. However, as I looked into it again I think it was just something I came across that sounded like a good idea because it reenforced the "we expect you to be involved" message throughout the handbook. So, I'm sure someone will criticize me for putting in something "unofficial" but I really do not care.
Family Promise
We promise, to do our best to support our Cub Scout,
And to guide him to live up to the Cub Scout Promise, and the Law of the Pack.
We will work with our Scout to help him complete his achievements
to the best of his ability.
As Akela, I will sign his book when he has done his best.
We will attend and take part in the pack meetings and den activities.
We will do our best to make the pack go.
(This message has been edited by 83eagle)
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I looked at stuff that was out there and didn't like the BSA stuff...to generic and didn't tell the parents practical stuff that pertained to our Pack. (It obviously couldn't.)
So that they weren't overwhelmed with a bunch of DIFFERENT documents, I created one essential document. It is 8 pages and is the "getting started" guide.
I also created a NEW LEADER handbook after consulting with leaders about "what they wished they had known."
I can't link to both of those docs directly here, but I could send you a copy if you'd like.
The sections are:
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What is Cub Scouting?
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How is the Cub Scout program different from other youth programs, like sports?
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Is Scouting a religious program?
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How is the Cub Scout Program organized?
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Understanding Advancement (Rank) Badges
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What are some of the activities the Pack does
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Regular Pack Event Dates
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What goes on at Monthly Pack Events?
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What does my Den do?
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What are the equipment requirements?
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Wearing the Uniform:
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Where can I buy the uniform, book, and supplies?
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What are program costs?
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Is financial assistance available?
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What are fundraising requirements?
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Family responsibilities.
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Volunteering
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Attending Den and Pack Events
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Youth Protection
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Leader Contacts
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Website address
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Cub Scout Promise
Law of the Pack
Cub Scout Motto
Family Promise
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I recommend creating two "patrols." I got grief when I've mentioned that here in the past but it works well for us.
Asking for another DL gets the deer in the headlights response. However, asking for two people to help "coordinate" small group (i.e., "patrol") activities has worked very well for us. The advantage is we still meet at the same place and same time, so facilities are easier and boys get to see all their friends. Then, we can break into more managable groups for activities.
If no one steps up, and you really don't want to do it, then draw that line in the sand and don't cross it. That's the important part. Once you say "I'll only do this if no one else does," you're automatically doing it.
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Thanks for the comments thus far. I really hope that timing is the issue because we have had much better luck with fall recruiting. I find it telling that half the kids who showed up were in 3rd grade currently, which runs counter to normal recruiting. I believe this is because our current 3rd grade den is pumped about scouting and sells the program.
Regarding boy talks, it would have been nice, but we have no one at district to do them any more. I had considered trying it myself (see related thread of mine on same topic) but, well, it didn't happen.
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Well, we decided to hold our first-ever spring recruiting event last night (Thursday). Typically we have done only fall recruiting, and our usual group is about 10 new recruits, most in the Tiger or Wolf dens. However, we have an active summer program with 2 events each month, so I figured we could attract boys looking for some summer fun.
Our pack typically runs about 35-40. We were down to 29 after losing a large Webelos den at crossover.
We have about 300 age-eligible boys in the school we recruit from. We sent flyers to each of the homes a week before and also used the school's bulk email system.
We marketed the event as "Blast Off Into Cub Scouting" and advertised that boys would be making stomp rockets.
Current scouts were encouraged to "Bring a Friend" to the event in order to earn their recruiter patch, and were invited to come even if they didn't have a friend so we'd have a big group of current scouts. The idea was, the boys would go make rockets, I'd talk to the parents.
The day before the event, we had "Pack Pride Day." The boys wore their uniforms to school, and the administration let them walk around during free time to pass out even more flyers in the classroom.
The only thing we didn't do was a boy talk.
So, we ended up with 7 current scouts there and 6 unregistered boys at the event. I got two completed applications back (only one with a registration fee) and one that is going to "think about it." Now, some of the "bring a friend" boys didn't come with their parents (my fault for not clarifying), so 3 apps got sent home. Not sure if we'll see those.
Now, on the plus side, the event itself was great. The boys loved making the rockets and the feedback we got from everyone was that everyone had fun.
But my feeling--and that of the den leaders--was that the event failed miserably as a recruiting event. Also, perplexingly, 5 of the 6 boys there would be Bear or Webelos--only 1 would be a new Tiger, and no Wolves.
What are your thoughts on this? I don't know why attendance wasn't higher. In retrospect, Thursday night probably wasn't the greatest choice in the middle of little league. But...???
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What is it with those leaders who let the kids get all kinds of stuff for not doing jack?
I'm not talking about dishonest parents here...leaders should know better.
But there is a real spectrum of practices. On one hand I have den leaders who are super-concerned about the letter of the law. On the other I have the aforementioned (and outgoing) Webelos leader who suddenly gives our advancement coordinator orders for 6 Webelos pins when I know they've held 2 den meetings. I make a passing remark to one of the Webelos about "did you have fun earning XYZ pin," and he goes..."Huh???"
Why do we have to deal with these situations?
If an adult isn't going to buy into the program, including the "do your best" part, why do they even bother to volunteer as a leader?
To see their kid get a bunch of shiny pins that the boy doesn't care about because he doesn't understand them--let alone have earned them?
To have pictures of their kid festooned with awards to show friends and family?
To re-live and re-do their own childhood of non-achievement?
'Tis a mystery.
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Tell the ADLs to get their behavior under control or they are out (assuming the committee is on board with with).
If you don't already have a procedure in place for belt loop purchase it could be tough. If it were me I'd say there was no budget for it, which would be true. We have the practice that we only pay for loops earned in pack or den activities, but you have a den activity. If you have the budget and the practice of paying for loops you may be stuck.
Obviously there's no way they could earn that many and the sad part is they will mean nothing to the kids while costing $30 per boy. These leaders are unlikely to understand that, but neither should you make it a practice to audit stuff, particularly since parents can sign off on things or, as has been pointed out, just buy them themselves.
No matter what you do you need the committee behind you because these people are likely to be a major PITA.
We have a somewhat similar situation with our Webelos den...lots and lots of pins earned for things, particularly outdoor things that I know this DL has no interest in working on that were supposedly done as a den. Addressing the situation got me yelled at by the DL as a "command and control freak." Fortunately the DL is leaving the pack. The point is, I understand that dealing with people who think rules don't apply to them is tough. You need support from your committee to get strength in numbers whatever you do.
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Nealb, why did the parents blame the leaders? Or perhaps, did the leaders show the parents that both of those specs are in the sheet that comes in the box? Maybe it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
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Nealb, why did the parents blame the leaders? Or perhaps, did the leaders show the parents that both of those specs are in the sheet that comes in the box? Maybe it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
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The minute to win it games were a big hit. We had 7 stations set up and when families arrived we assigned them to group 1-7, trying to keep the numbers equal. We ran a few rounds per station then rotated.
Not all the parents did all the games, as expected, but I was happy to see several parents try "magic carpet" (move on a towel across the floor without touching the floor). More popular ones included moving M&Ms from one cup to another using a straw, and "high roller" (stacking dice on a popsicle stick held between your teeth). Also did "don't blow the joker," "candelier," (build a paper plate and aluminum can pyramid) "go the distance" (roll pingpong balls down a tape measure into a cup), and "air balloon" (keep 2 balloons in the air at the same time).
It was a good prelude to our year end graduation, which involved sundaes and root beer floats. Games and ice cream, how can you go wrong? Like someone said, if you can plan a birthday party you can plan a pack meeting.
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I have permission; I know the principal.
The DE did the talk last fall but we have since lost our DE. It's been really difficult to get anything of substance from the DD. I'm just going to do it, the kids know me anyway from other school events.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)
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Having a spring roundup in a few weeks. The plan is for the new recruits to make stomp rockets while I go over the details and paperwork with the parents.
I have not done a boy talk before but was thinking of doing one in the school the day before the event. The plan was to bring the stomp rocket launcher into the group and give a short rah-rah, or something...then "If you wanna find out how to launch rockets with this crazy thing come to the roundup tomorrow night."
I guess I'm looking for the "rah rah" part...or any other ideas.
The presentation would likely have to be done during the lunch hour, to a mixed-gender audience.
Thanks for any insight.
UK: Scouts get prepared for more gay recruits
in Issues & Politics
Posted
Since people think scouts is "gay" already, according to posts in this forum, does that mean we should have an "it's ok to be hetero" and a scout campaign?
Besides, when did sex factor so much into the youth levels of scouing? When I was a scout I didn't care about girls (or boys). Then again I left the program in my early teens so maybe I missed the phase at which boys sleeping together might have meant more than sleeping together.