Krampus

It's much more fun to have 125 lb Timmy launched by 185 lb dad :-) 

 

Agreed.

 

It's also more fun to throw big water balloons that small ones. It's more fun to hose guys down with super soakers when it's 102F in the shade than swim in the 89F lake.

No it isn't. Socialism is when the State, or the workers themselves, own the means of production. For example, in Great Britain medicine is socialized as health care workers work for the national healthcare service. Even Canada does not have socialized medicine per se since most medical care is delivered by private services.

 

You are taking the Marxist definition of socialism....and a very narrow definition at that.

 

If you look at the broader definition (see Websters) of socialism, it is when the government, rather than private enterprise, control industry and markets.

 

When you advocate the government getting involved in "guaranteeing" income, that's socialism. It certainly ain't capitalism. Moreover, it is not what THIS country was founded on. The LAST thing people in this country want is MORE GOVERNMENT. 

Never underestimate the damage a handful of determined parents can do in a troop.

 

We are very clear with parents when they are looking at our unit for their boys. If they are looking for a helicopter re-fueling pad we're the wrong troop for them. Ever since we adopted this approach we have seen zero families join our unit only to leave because we were too scout led.

 

Set the expectation early and you can avoid problems down the road. However, but in for this approach took YEARS for us to develop.

In addition to Qwazse's excellent bubble ball suggestion, I'll offer one more:     "Teens and adults:  head first slide, you are out automatically.   Feet first only."

 

Exactly. Because if you slide in head first you're likely to turn in to Pete Rose, and who wants that? 

 

 

 

Am hoping BSA does not outlaw burro races before we get to Philmont because PETA says it's cruel.

My kid just found out that he cannot attend summer camp this summer. He will be a senior next year and college visits can only be done during summer camp time, as he's heading to Philmont in August.

 

I am going to show him this thread so that he can see that working at summer camp (or Philmont) during the summer is a GREAT way to spend his youth...and build memories that will last him in his old age!!!

 

Thanks for sharing these thoughts. It is important for young folks to see that simple, non-lucrative decisions can have MORE of an impact on who you become than any paid internship at that Fortune 500 company can.

 

As I always tell him, "I've never heard anyone say that they wished they could work MORE at the office."

Sometimes I wonder who needs more teaching, the boys or the parents......

 

Rhetorical question, I know...but after all this time @@Stosh you can't really we wondering this. The answer is clearly the parents...not all of them, but more than expected.

Why must you read something into the post.  As far back as 1993 youth and adults were breaking there neck because they used a product not intended for their use.    

 

Flash forward to a game someone made up and labels as kickball.   Same risk, exposure is there.  Probably more so today than in 1993 due to increase in obese kids and adults.    

 

Richard

 

Same could be said for those giant water front "blob launchers". Those are intended to have similarly sized/weighted individuals use them; not 125 lbs Timmy launched by 185 lbs dad. Happens all the time, in Scout camps across the country.

Meanwhile, it was almost funny that pretty much all of the other parents were busy helping to tote stuff, going in mumbling something about that they should go back and help little so-and-so get his tent set up..... or they need to go check  to make sure he's ok, and so on...

I felt pretty good about the whole situation.  I could tell that my son couldn't have been happier.... and I shared a laugh with some of the other scouters about the whole thing

 

Had a similar issue two weeks back. Texas-sized storm front moving in over night. SPL and PLs got together and told everyone to pack up that night, put their rain gear on top so that we could bug out first thing and reduce the impact of the (torrential) heavy rain on our gear, etc.

 

Morning comes, rain in the distance, the unit packs up and heads home. 4-5 Scouts did not do as their PL advised (they the PLs check again and reminded these guys SEVERAL times to get their rain gear out).

 

Get to the home base and are unloading. Torrential rains had arrived. Everyone dry except the 4-5 guys who didn't listen. Had two moms come over and hold umbrellas over their little yum-yums so that they would not get more wet (they looked like drowned cats already, futile gesture on mom's part).

 

SPL invited the moms to stay dry in her car. Told her, "I told Bobby and Timmy to get their rain gear ready five times since last night. They said they forgot to even pack it. Maybe getting wet now they will remember the gear next camp out." Mom went back to the car.

 

I love it when the process works like that.

But I haven't advocated socialism, any more than Friedman or Hayek did. References to China (which really is an authoritarian regime, and in some ways more capitalist than the United States) and other countries are just straw men.

Advocating the government guaranteeing income, that's socialism. When you talk about the government controlling markets, that's communism.

 

Friedman said this about a socialism: "The essential notion of a capitalist society is voluntary cooperation, voluntary exchange. The essential notion of a socialist society is force."

 

Friedman didn't advocate socialism.

 

I call it as it is.

Well I am not a free-market capitalist.

 

I keep forgetting that if one disagree's with the laws of the country in which he lives, he should leave and go elsewhere!

 

If you are going to advocate socialism? Yes. There are plenty of countries that like that system. 

 

This country was founded on a different set of social and economic principles. We like them and don't want them changed. So, yeah, go to China where the government will dictate every thought you need if that's what you want. I prefer to have the government stay entirely out of my life...which is the founding principle of THIS country.

 

I've lived in many countries in my life. I have disagreed with their politics, social systems, economics and many other things. I never advocated changing those countries to meet my personal beliefs...even when I lived in one for over 15 years. It was my choice to live there so I lived within the norms and mores of that society.

 

I wish those living here would do the same.

Had dodge ball are recent district event. Some scouters/parents thought it was an unfair game because the scout who were better at throwing and catching had an advantage.

 

The referee for the event was also the archery range instructor. His reply? "Yes, this game favors those boys who can throw and catch well, just like archery favors those with good aim. That's actually how life is meant to work."

 

Oh, goodie, that one beats my old "Age and Treachery will win out over Youth and Exuberance any day".

 

I've seen another one that says something like: "I am old and sleep well in the back country. I am old and stringy, you are young and chewy."

 

Yeah, what he said....   Other than the part where her English is better than my Italian.   If she knows the word THE, she's doing better than me.

 

Let's face it, @@Stosh, her English is better than the English of most US teenagers.

 

My Italian, on the other hand, might have actually been Albanian. It has been a long time since I've used it.

I found @@Stosh's t-shirt...

 

https://www.teezily.com/old-man-with-scoutingskills

 

Actually it's your employer's duty to make sure that you are paid a just wage; if they can't or won't then the duty falls to the government.

 

In a free-market capitalist country like the US? The wage you are paid is determined by the market...not the government and not your employer (directly). The employer relies on the market forces to dictate his costs for materials for his product. The choice of production facilities dictates the price for labor. The skill set of the workforce dictates the market for the labor. NONE of this should be governed by the government.

 

I think you're in the wrong country. If you are looking for the government to secure your income for you, might I suggest you go to a socialist country or, perhaps, China. There the government is willing to pay you what THEY think you need and provide the services THEY think you need.

 

Here in the USA, we leave it to each individual's ability to make something of themselves and to secure their own future. Well, at least we did prior to 1998.

@@Cambridgeskip 

 

Harsh?  I think you Brits are a lot more courteous than us Damnyankees.    I take it you've never seen any of our video clips on parents "talking" to Little League or Soccer referees.  These people have blood in their eyes as they do the She-Bear protective thing for their dear little cubs.

@@Stosh, in a previous life I was a football (soccer) referee in Germany, England and the US. Did a few international youth tournaments too. Comparing the parents from these countries and how they react to other players, teams and match officials I can tell you -- hands down and a few light years distance between first and second place -- the winners of worst, most vocal and abusive football parents are the Americans.

 

It is not even close. Second would be the parents from the north of England. Manchester comes to mind, Nottingham less so. Easiest of the lot would be the Germans, because if you can point to where it is in the rule book they go home quietly because, well, you showed them the rule and that's good enough for them.

@@Eagle94-A1, I always find the changes to requirements and such interesting. I recall the "all at once" SMCs you described but, like you, I could have sworn those were done away with soon after. What a mess those were.

 

Sounds like you have your work cut out for you, but also sounds like the SM is beginning to be receptive to change. That is always a good thing.

My area exec told me we've shed a very large number of adults because of the mandatory YPT and state background clearances.

 

I don't know how a charter that's held up by National will be added to the tally. I'm hoping after Pitt's finals week, I can get my 18+ y/o's to knock out that venturing YPT.

Yeah that will be interesting because you guys really upped the ante on the time/money investment just to volunteer.

Actually 1 SMC and BOR can be done for Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class. That's because there are no longer time requirements between S-T-2-1 as they were prior to 1989.

Never heard that. Where is that stated?

 

We don't do a single SMC and BOR for those ranks for the obvious problems you ran in to.

 

As for SMCs, the SMis not retesting them, but having a conversation about goals, experiences, etc.

But he should review the requirements and the dates in the book as part of the process.

 

SM is overwhelmed. He is dividing up the duties among the SMs now. One ASM is handling advancement records.  As for the BOR, the commitee is A) not that active and B) really need to get some BOR training. The folks involved are used to old school retesting, with  a box of supplies for the Scouts to use during the BOR to demonstrate the skills.  They are having some challenges with how they are suppose to be done today.

Clearly. Hopefully this was a learning experience for him. 

 

That's going to be a challenge. If he was staying in out troop, we would have him redo everything Mom signed off on. However he will be leaving at the end of the school year. So we will be having him do as much as possible prior to leaving.  But the records have been submitted.

If it were my Scout we'd hold off on his advancement until he "tested out" of those things signed off by mom. I would not want this kid going to another unit as an example of what we produce unless he met the standards all other Scouts in out unit have met. 

 

Part of the issues IMHO is lack of planning. SMCs were done just prior to the BORs. AND there was also a Leader's meeting that the Sm was preparing for. SM has too many irons in the fire.

Yup. Right hand, left hand issue.

 

We went to SMCs twice a month with BORs are month's end. We do go outside this schedule if the number of rank advancements gets too high or if we need to make sure the Scouts are not waiting too long for their rank.

Of course not, negative income tax is completely separate from minimum wage. It's the government's duty to assure a basic income.

????

 

It is YOUR duty to assure a basic income. The government should have nothing to do with you and your income.

 

A true free market capitalist does not want government anywhere near their income or the market.

Yah, well, I reckon I'm not always that clear, eh?

 

 

[snip a whole lot of stuff off topic]

 

I gently submit to yeh that in 99 cases out of 100, da best thing to tell the parent is to think about da lessons of sportsmanship and courtesy and respect they want their son to learn, and how much time they really think it's right to demand from a man or woman who are givin' their time for free.   Good scouters and trainers and commissioners don't pour fuel and oxygen on da flames of unit conflicts, eh?   We pour water.   We know that unit conflicts can harm da Scoutin' program for a lot of boys, so we don't wind folks up and send 'em off to fight to da finish about interpretations of kids' program guides.  Instead we get people calmed down and reflective and thinkin' about da Aims we share.

 

That's how we serve Scoutin' best.

I really don't what to say. Let's stay on topic of this OP.

1. You have a Scout who as completed his requirements.
2. You have adults not following the requirements or processes.
3. You have adults adding requirements in one place in order to sign off on requirements in another.
4. You have a Scout who is trying to follow the process and rules, but you have adults changing the rules.
5. You have a Scout how turns 18 soon and is looking for resolution to his problem because the adults are being unreasonable.

It's not about character. If it was one might ask about the character of the adults changing the rules.

 

Its' not about trust. If it was one might ask about the trustworthiness of the adults who don't communicate their thoughts or intentions.

 

It's not about loyalty. If it was one might question the loyalty of the adults who are not supporting a young man who has invested a great deal in their program already.

 

The irony of you continuing to banter about what the program is about and what we are trying to achieve as adults, flies in the face of what these adults are trying to do. You don't build the character of a young man about to make Eagle by eroding his trust in you and sabotaging his hard work.

 

I'm going to stop my part of this discussion. You either don't get it or are so far away from how I would want my boys represented by adults that I can only say I am glad your mindset does not exist in my unit.

WELL another reason appeared tonite to give me another reason why the PLC and a few other Scouts should be able to sign off on the S-T-2-1 requirements instead of adults: we had a Scout who had a BOR for Second and First Class last week, who had his mom sign off on requirements, and not one of the adult leaders.

Curious, what are you going to do? Will the ranks remain or are you going to re-review him to make sure he knows the stuff? The GTA gives you the cover, but honestly, the SM should have caught this. He sounds like he either has too much on his plate or is asleep at the wheel.

Give him a adult appointment/leader enrolment form. That should get rid of him.

 

 

I agree. Have a big sign that says "Adult Volunteer Leader Sign Up" and hang it high. Next time he gets involved simply say, "You're a natural. Why don't you fill out an adult leader form and make your involvement official?"

The Negative Income Tax (very much like a basic income) was developed by Milton Friedman.

The Negative Income Tax (very much like a basic income) was developed by Milton Friedman.

Friedman never advocated setting a minimum wage that high.