Zahnada

I think most people in this forum are here because they love scouting and want what's best for it. And I think that's why debates get so heated. I agree that the BSA program is a thing of beauty and when followed properly it can bring about wonderful results. However, I also believe that nothing (at least nothing man-made) is perfect. BSA is no exception. I like coming to these forums because people here bring up questions that I had never considered before. They push the limits of the program. Everyone here who complains does so because they have an idea of what is best for the boys and

Hmmmm... paper ideas... So it needs to do with the field of communication. You want to use a scouting topic. Your professor wants you to focus on the controversy surrounding the gay issue. Although you could write a dissertation on whether it's right for the BSA to exclude gays, I don't know if that's what you want to use for your paper. And remember, as many people have already said, with that topic there are really two issues: Can the BSA choose their membership? and, Should the BSA impose those membership restrictions? I think the second question is the one that's debated m

I'm curious as to how these weapons are being found. Are these stories about kids getting suspended and punished for having knives at school taking place in schools with metal detectors or searches? Having a knife in a backpack from a camping trip is completely believable. However, if the student just keeps it in the backpack, unless he's searched, nobody would ever know and he could remove it once he's home. I hate to not give the kids from these stories their due credit, but I assume the only way it was discovered they had weapons was because they were telling people or pulling t

Koreascouter said, "But, there was certainly a period of time during which I was on the fence, and would have come back if I thought somebody cared. But nobody called and asked where I had been or why I wasn't coming. So, I figured they didn't care." Note to all scouts and scouters: Don't let boys "disappear"! If a scout stops showing up, do some follow up. We're not the mafia. They can choose to quit. But they must know that we all care and that the troop will always be there for them if they choose to come back.

I agree with everything you just said, Packsaddle. After reading over my comments I saw that I was making a link between atheism and science. And I was in error for that connection. Thanks for making the correction, packsaddle.

When people meet me, it doesn't take long for them to find out I'm an Eagle Scout. Then they always explain how they were a Cub Scout or Boy Scout and why they dropped out but wished they hadn't. Well, I'm interested in what causes the drop outs. This might be useful information to any leaders out there who read this and are dealing with boys or sons who don't think scouting is right for them. I actually quit Cub Scouts. My friends had all left to pursue sports. The program always struck me as too focused on arts and crafts (at least the den I was in). Also popularity became an issue and

Hi Bob, I guess the difference between us is that I consider atheism a chosen belief structure. Instead of classifying it as a "disbelief" in a higher being, I would say "belief that there is no higher being." Fine line, but it explains our differences of opinions. In regards to religion, people are confronted by a series of choices throughout their lives. A person who chooses atheism has still chosen a structure of faith that can guide their lives. The scout law says, "respect the beliefs of others" and I consider atheism a belief that science holds the answers and that there is no

"I do not understand however why you think I have to respect your choice, just because you respect mine." Despite my personal opinions of atheism, I respect the right of people to make that choice. It's their right, and our country is a stronger nation because we allow people to make those choices. So I respect Achileez's choice. I think Bob is confusing a respect for the ability to choose (which is how I interpret the conversation) with a respect for the actual choice or the person making it. There is nothing about atheism that harms myself or my family and friends. It is not illega

(As I aid the downhill spiral of this thread...) Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan is one of my favorite movies of all time. The movies are very hit and miss, but that particular movie set the groundwork for the franchise of Star Trek films. Sort of on the thread topic: Has anyone seen the boxer shorts with the American flag design? I don't mind handkerchiefs or T-shirts, but I draw the line at underwear. I vividly remember seeing those on display in many stores after Sept. 11. Just like Kid Rock's presentation, it's poor taste. Althought I must admit, when I came back from a trip t

Bob White, I completely agree with everything from your last post. The definition of "serve" must be laid out for the scout before they enter into their position. I interpret acco's post as saying that the BOR decides whether the leadership is satisfactory for advancement (as they determine whether completion of all requirements is satisfactory). However, after serving for the time period, the boy has then fulfilled the requirement. This is kind of confusing for me. So the requirement can be signed off, but the BOR can say that even the completion of the requirement is not enough to

Thank you acco! I knew I wasn't completely crazy. There was truth in what just about everyone said during this post. And I assume that this decision applies to everyone? And is there any place where this decision is written down? Thanks.

Fair enough, Merlyn. Thank you for your reply.

Merlyn, Sorry to distract you, but I have a quick question. I know you're getting attacked from all sides, but believe me that this post stems from curiousity and not any malignant nature. To put it simply, why are you here? I know your mission to end government related support to scouting. Although I don't support that mission, I do understand why you might feel strongly towards it. Your vigor and research into the matter is impressive to say the least. But to understand your motives better, I personally am curious as to what your goals are on this forum. For the most part, th

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Haha! Very well, Fuzzy Bear. I can take a hint. Besides, I have a feeling that only you, myself, and Bob are the only people still reading this thread/rope. But why cut it off at page 2? I wager we could have at least gone to page 5.

Bob, Please read the parenthetical section of my last post that begins with "Please note". I never say that a struggling leader should be removed from office. Some boys will have difficulty with their positions no matter how much help we give them. If they exert the effort, then they pass the requirement in my book. My argument deals with how active a boy is. If a boy does not show up and is not performing his functions as a leader then he should lose his responsibility as a leader. Then there would be no arguments about whether he was active during his 6 months of office becau

Bob White, I think we're very near an agreement except I've used the logic to go an extra step. Those 6 months should be a learning process for the boy. However, if he fails to actively perform his duty then the SPL or SM needs to counsel him on what that duty entails. If he still refuses to put the effort into his job then there should be more conversations. If these conversations don't help then the boy should be removed of his office. An unactive leader hurts the troop, the patrol, and the other scouts. Therefore, if the boy makes it through his 6 months in a leadership position,

My understanding of the leadership requirement is the same as Acco's. If a scout is not "actively" serving in his position of leadership, intervention must take place during the course of the 6 months. A discussion should be held with the boy on what he needs to do for improvement. If he still refuses or fails to be an active leader, he should be removed from office before the end of the 6 months. This has happened several times in my troop where a boy thought he could juggle commitments to a sport and to scouts. After a conversation with the SM, they decided it would be best to finish t

I actually think that Bob and Acco are very near agreement on the issue. From what I've read, it seems that Acco is more optimistic about what the boy's response could mean while Bob is more pessimistic. The way I see it, there are only a few options for why a boy would declare himself an atheist. 1. He is an atheist. In which case he cannot be a member of BSA. 2. He lied about being an atheist. This could have been done for a number of reasons. Perhaps he really didn't want to earn the religious award and thought he found a loophole, but didn't understand the BSA's policy. Suc

I actually don't have exact figures because I'm not in charge of them and because we're reworking the budget for this year, but I can take a stab at some of your questions. We'll charge about $200 with an FOS discount that will drop it to about $160. There are two different courses and each have 12 patrols of 8 boys (96 boy camp). The staff is usually 15-20 in strength with about 10 adults, a good portion of whom are in that 18-21 age group. The staff hat and jacket costs about $20 per staffer. The staff doesn't have to pay to be on staff unless you count the money they're not earning by

It looks like beaver1onit may have just copied and pasted an email into his post. So, he may not have deliberately misled everyone into believing this happened to him. I bet the email or where ever it came from was written in first person. Looking over some of beaver's other posts, he doesn't seem to be a trouble maker or a malicious forum member at all. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and I hope he continues to post. If nothing else, if I hear this rumor again, then I'll know there is no truth to it.

Bob White and Fat Old Guy, I apologize if you feel some of my comments are inaccurate representations of you. I did preface what I said with "some of my personal observations". So, yes, this is all my own opinion and I acknowledged it as such. I do know that, "Just because you post it does not make it true" and that statement goes for everyone in this forum. Once again, those are my personal observations and you can agree with them or not, but I stand by them, except for the "never admit when they're wrong" comment. "Never" is a harsh word. The purpose of those comments was an attem

Happy Holidays, Everyone! And since it is the season for giving, I was hoping that two of you would be willing to give a gift to the rest of the forum this holiday season. This is a petition to end the feud between Bob White and Fat Old Guy. (Note: if you want nothing to do with any of this nonsense, stop reading now). Personally, I would have preferred to post this in the Issues and Politics forum. Things get heated there, but that's what it's for. However, the childish bickering and attacks between two forum members has moved beyond that forum and has contaminated the rest of the d

"The question is what makes the difference. What keeps a unit from becoming Troop A or enables it to be Troop B." I'll bite. Naturally, any real life scenerio is much more complex than this and would have more complex problems and solutions. However, (as I think most of us figured out, so I'm probably just stating the obvious) the answer lies in the first sentence of description for both units. Troop A does not use First Class emphasis or New Scout Patrol Troop B uses First Class Emphasis and New Scout Patrols As Bob White might say, "It's the program, Stupid!" (Th

"The question is what makes the difference. What keeps a unit from becoming Troop A or enables it to be Troop B." I'll bite. Naturally, any real life scenerio is much more complex than this and would have more complex problems and solutions. However, (as I think most of us figured out, so I'm probably just stating the obvious) the answer lies in the first sentence of description for both units. Troop A does not use First Class emphasis or New Scout Patrol Troop B uses First Class Emphasis and New Scout Patrols