Zahnada

NOOOO!!! I can't let this topic slip down the Open Discussion page into obscurity!! I won't let it! Leadership is the key to Boy Scouts! It is what separates us from any other organization in the country. Church youth groups teach morals and community service. Explorers and other groups not tied down to heavily by BSAs liability protection have outdoor experiences. But where will you find leadership? I've looked at resumes of people who try to kid themselves that they have leadership experience. "I was on Honor Roll so therefore I was a roll model to the school. That's a type of lea

Yes, it does upset me that I missed the boat on national JLT planning. It's too bad. But that won't stop me from speculating and developing theories of what a JLTC should look like. I'm like a sports fan who keeps imagining what trades his team should do to improve. Realistically, it will take probably 2 more summers before a completed version of the JLT is handed out to Councils. That's an enternity for a boy in scouting. I've been told that scouting is done at the local level, so I shall keep improving our council's JLTC until I can get my hands on the national program. And then, there are p

Well, since this topic seems to be drifting off this forum's radar, I will assume that there are no objections to NOT basing JLTC on Woodbadge. Now, my next idea for JLTC is... interesting. All I ask is that you read what I have to say with an open mind and then hopefully this will open some debate. Actually, I have a feeling that Bob White will tell me that they have either already tried or are currently utilizing what I will say. So much the better. We need to rethink the 11 Skills of Leadership. And I mean to massively rethink them. First of all, they occupy far too much classtim

While we're on the topic: GO LANCE ARMSTRONG!!! Now there's a hero. There's someone who kids should emulate. Of course, it's rarely the choice of the parents on who should become a child's role model. They can play their child in a position to find a role model in certain people, but the freedom of choice rests with the child. This whole conversation about sports athletes being role models interests me. I think schema theory fits in this really well. Kids separate out the events in their lives with amazing skill. They realize that a basketball player is a basketball player. Therefore the

I think Bob White is actually backing up my major point. Woodbadge should not be the basis for JLTC. As he points out, Woodbadge teaches leadership to all sorts of scouting positions. Including administrative. This already places Woodbadge as teaching a very different type of leadership. Adult positions in scouting vary so much, and Woodbadge has tried to cover all those positions that it would be confusing to the youth. JLTC should be a focused training session to teach boys how to lead patrols or troops. They can then apply these skills to other areas of life. I feel that if we try to bite o

There's often a lot of talk about the connection between Woodbadge and JLTC. Many people want to have JLTC based on the Woodbadge program to encourage a dialogue between SMs and scouts. So, here is my ideal Woodbadge. First we must ask ourselves the question: Who is JLTC for? It is a program for the boys. The boys who attend gain leadership skills that will (hopefully) benefit them throughout their lives. The boys in their home troops receive an improved program because of their newly trained leaders and will also learn leadership by example. To take another step back, the boys and girls

Bob White, As this discussion seems to be "dying" down, I don't know if there's much reason for me to defend myself further. But for the past several posts, I HAVE SAID THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE MEMBERSHIP NUMBERS TO BE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE SUCCESS OR LACK OF IT FOR AN ORGANIZATION. Please stop attacking me on a matter that I have actually stated I do not believe in. And I feel that caution is not always "self-defeating." Pessimism and optimism need a healthy blend for success. To blindly follow either one is self defeating. I feel that my faith in the program and my love of scou

Bob White, I must admit, those numbers are a relief to me. I hope I don't give the impression of someone who wishes the destruction of BSA. I'm just not an optimistic person. It probably comes from living on the West Coast. I assure you that the comments I have made accurately portray the situation in many areas here. And as I stated earlier, I believe that numbers can be deceiving. So I don't put all my faith about success in membership figures. I still stick to my statements in other posts that BSA needs to refocus and that refocus should center on JLT. I am still not convinced tha

I'm very excited that this message thread was started. Youth leadership is something that I feel separates scouting from any other organization. It's what makes scouting the unique and wonderful experience that it can become. I actually think we should move this thread outside the "Issues and Politics" forum and maybe into "Patrol Method" or "General Discussion." Ideally, JLTC would be important enough to have its own forum. I just fear that some people may avoid this forum because they don't want to hear about all the debates and controversy and I would hate to lose those valuable opini

First of all, many have questioned if I have any membership number evidence on my behalf. I just looked at the figures at www.scouting.org and did the math myself. Now, these are only numbers so they probably shouldn't/couldn't generate much discussion, but it may help in my defense. These are the total number of cub scouts, boy scouts, and varsity scouts. 1998: 3,195,429 1999: 3,209,366 2000: 3,118,111 2001: 3,049,070 So, for percentages, BSA was growing .4%, then the Supreme Court came around and we lost 2.8% (which isn't horrible considering the position BSA was in), then

I believe Hanaski stated it best. BSA is not advancing. They are not changing or growing as our current culture demands. Once again, I'm not calling for a reversal of the gay decision. That would cripple scouts. Instead, I think it's time for BSA to look at its program, policy, and interactions among society and think of developing change. I'm not talking about anything radical here. But it's time to adjust. Boy Scouts needs to open its doors to the people and explain what it is that we're about. That message is being lost. What do advertisements look like? It's always a boy in front of a

Dan, I realize that if gays and atheists were allowed (at this time) the backlash would be much worse than it is now. The strongest supporters of scouting (LDS and Catholics) would never allow that and could possibly withdraw enough membership to destroy BSA. I'm not an idealistic liberal. BSA is in a no-win position right now. While hiring PR people to "put a positive spin" on the issue sounds like a cheap idea, that is in essence what I think needs to happen. BSA has not articulated and explained their position well at all. They are not defending their actions against the onslaught

In response to littlebillie, Yes, "transition" is probably a more appropriate and optimistic term for the situation than "dying." But transitions are turning points. They are times for change. BSA is not handling this transition well at all. Sure the Supreme Court gave BSA the right to choose its membership, but it doesn't mean that we should all be hiding behind that decision. BSA cannot survive if its only action during this "transition" is to say, "Well, the Supreme Court says we're right and that's good enough." They're standing by idle and taking all the blows from several direc

Certainly the kids don't care about politics and hardly anyone in Cub Scouts even knows the distinction between a homosexual and a heterosexual. The opposition I see isn't coming from the kids. I see the parents as becoming less willing to let their kids join Boy Scouts. Now I admt that this isn't very apparent now, but the once good image of BSA is tarnished. And I don't see them doing anything to remedy that. America is becoming an increasingly accepting place. This acceptance reaches more and more gays and atheists. I'm not opening a debate on scouting policies regarding these issues.

kwc57, I tend to agree that the sky is not falling. My post probably did sound a bit apocalyptic. BSA has endured for many years. It has faced challenges from other youth organizations and has still prevailed as the peak example of boy leadership and morality. And what has allowed the American population to keep such faith in this organization? A good name. A name that stands for all the positive attributes that are desirable in boys. And this good name could not be attacked by anyone. Until now. Every newspaper article is dragging BSA's good name through the mud. People love

The Boy Scouts have been pushed into a public relations nightmare. With an already poor marketing campaign, this current string of lawsuits is crippling. I'm not writing this post to start a discussion on BSA's gay policy (which I feel is wrong). It has become apparent to me that their method of dealing with this controversy is horrible. As a result, if nothing changes, I predict that BSA will be a dead organization in 20 years. They will be a shell of the organization that the country respected. While Boy Scouts have never been "cool", it has been respected. Middle school students