WestCoastScouter

I am also one of those dads that have a cub scout, and a brownie girl scout !! Yes... my daughter also would rather hang out at times with the boys..

yes... she has lamented that the "Brownie" campouts are only one night... unlike her older brother.

We have one girl scout camp, and it's "ok". It's kinda smallish, and no showers... but our Pack will also camp there for a mix between different locations.

One problem that we have is that some mom's dont like to camp in a tent, and that means that daughter does not get to camp...

Also, a BSA Pack or Troop will have boys of different ages...with a pack that can be in exisitance for many years ! GSUSA Troops around here are all of one age group... so no chance to build a camping tradition, or accumulate equipment, ect.

Guess that is why my daughter always comes out for the Pack's Family Camp, and mixes it up with the boys... at least while she's young !

Lets see... just off the top of my head...

Serious assault on another scouter or scouter; drug use during scout activity. Repeated safety rule violations that endanger other scouts. Repeated acts of dishonesty such as lying, stealing, falsifying paperwork or requirements.

Our packed used to use www.onecallnow.com

This is an automatic dialing - message service. We imput the phone numbers of parents, and then record the message. The service computer then calls everyone and plays the message either to the parent personally, or the parents message machine. Its the same thing as those political phone calls that are pre-recorded...

It was a bit pricey... we only did it one year.

We now rely on e-mail, and DL's to call their parents...

Yes.. we also can send out 3-4 emails, just to have a parent say "Huh ? We never got any messages".

UPDATE: from original poster...

We are a cub scout pack... we have the same unit number as before, and the same charter... just had 2 years where the pack temporarily disapeared... then the charter got it back going again...

Our unit was going for 20+ years, then did not exist for two years... then was revived under the same charter, with the same number... and has been back for 12 years.

So is our unit only 12 years old and thus not a Veteran Unit ?

Is it absolutely required to have been in uninterupted existence ?

I am being told that Scout Parents will also need to complete Youth Protection Training... but Tiger Cub Partners will not ?? huh ??

To become a Scout Parent in the past, one just fills in the bubble on the BOY'S application (the lower half where the parent places their own info)

So now when a parent signs up their son for scouting, and they fill in that bubble... will the scout office turn them down ? Will they tell the parent to come back AGAIN after completing the online course?

I occassionally have the same problem. My son is a Bear and my daughter is a Brownie... (they are 14 months apart in age).

I am a DL for my son, and a Committee Member for my daughter's troop. We've taken the girls camping at the BSA camps, and have taken the boys/Pack to camp at the local GSUSA camp. (just to mix up where we go)

We work with my son & daughter on Belt Loops and Try-Its that are similar (BSA Nutrition and GSUSA "Make it - Eat It") or the (BSA and GSUSA Manner)

Long and short.... "Balance Daniel-san... learn balance..." (my Karate Kid impression)

I've heard that BALOO and OLS-WS is going away ??

There will be just one single type of class... is this correct ?? or ??

CLARIFICATION BY ORIGINAL POSTER:

It is not an issue of a tag-a-long siblings. We allow them to partiipate in our famlily events, field trips... and we dont forbid - nor do we encourage them to come to Den Meetings. Better to have sister or brother at Den meeting than for boy to miss a meeting.

Our issue: The Tiger DL wants his pre-school aged son as a full partisipant with the Den and pack. He wants his preschool son to be given the Tiger Rank Badge, and a Wolf Neckerchief at our end of the year Pack Meeting.

The leadership was aware the the little brother was attending the meeting & was tagging along. But it was only about a month ago that the younger boy arrived at a pack meeting wearing a Tiger Cub Uniform. So we are not addressing it for the first time. But we dont want to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

I think the dad who is the older son's DL, wants to have the boys only go to one meeting... making it easier on himself. (not having his sons going to different places)

Maybe have the younger son to be a Tiger ? but allow him to do meetings with older brother in Wolves ?

Yes I see the problem that other parents who have 2 boys to say, "Hey... I want to drive my sons to just one meeting... let my boys be in the same den?" (and eventhough they are in different grade levels)

The issue of younger son and scoutnet...

The Younger son is not registered. Dad just has bought him a shirt, necker, tiger hat, ect. He started off as a "tag a long" with his older brother... It was only las month that the K aged son came wearing a full uniform.

So it will be next year when he attempts to apply for his Wolf Rank that he will not be old enough.. and system will catch him. Right now dad is just buying the stuff at the store and letting son wear it.

One of our den leaders has two sons. One is a Tiger Cub, the other is in Kindergarten and not old enough for Tiger Cubs.

the DL - dad has included the Kindergarten aged son in all his den meetings, has him in uniform, Tiger cub necker, has a bobcat badge, immediate recognition ect...

At a meeting tonight he told another dad that he is planning on having the younger son skip Tiger Cubs and just stay with his older brother and to do Wolves with the older brother. Essentially dad wants both sons to do the same program at the same time, despite them being in different grades.

He knows that the younger boy will "do Webelos for a third year" but is ok with it.

Should I be concerned ? or is it no big deal, if the younger boy is enjoying scouting ??

I am a CS leader and last year I bought a centenial shirt with green number and a green trained patch. but I have the blue epaulets.

So based on the epaulets... people know I am a CS leader. I see green... its scouts... silver is district or council... ect.

So why in the world are we now being told to wear RED ? number and trained patch ? Ughh.. its UGLY.. they clash ! And in two years I have to replace them with green when my son bridges ?

Ridiculous.... just have adults wear green that matches... and the epaulets tell you what type of unit they serve.

I am certainly not the most experienced scouter, but I do believe that since the Unit "belongs" to the Chatering Organization, that they can select a CM, or allow a CM to continue....even if opposition to the Pack Committee. In fact the Chartering Organization Representative (COR) could come in and dismiss the pack committee.

So what are your options if the COR appears be apathetic to your situation?

(1) Contact the IH (Institutional Head) of the Chartering Organization. (The head pastor, the commander, or exaulted ruler, or grand poo ba, whatever his/her title is). Ask for a meeting, and explain why the committee feels the CM should be replaced.

(2) Ask for a sit down with your DE, or CE with the COR, to go over why the committee has made a "Vote of No Confidence" in the current CM.

ALSO: Have a replacement ready to take the reins. It might be easier if you present your proposed replacement for the current CM.

Option (3) Visit other local units and pay the $1.00 to transfer, or look into forming your own new unit... I have heard of some units where the chartering organization is the "Parents of Pack 123". Thus the parents themselves ARE the chartering organization.

On the QUA there are "goals" to reach for the year. When does a unit determine what their "goals" are ? Early in the calendar year? or at the end of the year just before its due ?

I would think at beginning of the year (i.e. now) so you can set goals and then meet them. (??)

How much do you spend on each boy per year on awards ?

Assuming official awards only - belt loops and pins, rank badge, ect. (Fun patches not included)

$40 ? $50 ? $60 ?

I am not also including neckers, woggles, or books... just official awards...

I was in a pack with my older son that had about 80-90 boys. This was considered a LARGE pack in our area. The other packs in our area were about 15-30 boys. We had the reputation of being the "premier" pack, and we knew it.

However, let me continue with this story... We were most proud about "being the largest" with the "best events".... but you never heard us use the word "program" or "child involvement". We did not go to roundtable, or council or district events... since we were so big, we did not need the council... They needed us.

We were so big that pack meetings were cut down to every 6-8 week, and last 2 hours plus. We also quit giving out awards at pack meetings, instead we just did them en mass 2-3x a year... Events took an enormous amount of planning, and fundraising was like running a small business !!

Now.. with my second son, a few years later, we joined one of the smaller packs. About 35-40 boys on average. Wow... what a difference... individual attention to the boys, parent involvement, friendships by boys and families... bonding...

IMHO - One dens of 7-9 per age group = 35 to 45 boys is deal. But that is just by opinion... your miles may vary.(This message has been edited by westcoastscouter)

UPDATE: Our CM/DL has agreed to only be a CM. He still does not want the boys to split into a third den. Wants to keep them at 9 & 10. vs. 6,7 & 6.

The CM however has conceded that the CC and COR will decide on how many dens and who will be DL's. He's not happy about it, but realizes its not his final call.

I think we'll do a recruitment before the end of the year to see if we can get a few more boys for each den, and that will make them all "full" again and happy !

An old wise UC once told me: "Cubscouting is great until you add adults."(This message has been edited by westcoastscouter)

Question:

Does a cub scout move up to the next level (i.e. Wolf to Bear) at the end of the school year, or the beginning of the next school year ??

Meaning could that Wolf continue to work on his Wolf Rank Achievements and Electives during the summer, or does he become a Bear, and need to do Bear Book stuff during the summer break??

To answer some of the Q's posed by others... to help round out the issue so to speak.

(1) Like many packs we dont have parents rushing to volunteer, hence like many packs our CM is registered as the CM, but also does the job of DL. I've read many times here that you can register only for one position, but can serve in other positions as well. Right ?

(2) The CC agrees that we are maxed out in the Bear dens, and need "space to take new boys" that will come in... and also you never turn down a volunteer.

(3) As to CC vs. the CM... They are congenial with each other, but we are at the point where they respectfully disagree, and we just need to know who gets the final say on this one...

I hope that helps explain it a bit more...

Our pack currently has two Bear Dens... one den has 8 boys, and the other has 9 boys.

Now, the Den that has nine boys has had a new scout being recruited by of its members... and these two boys want to be with each other.

The "recruiter" boy's father, is a former scout & has volunteered to start/lead a THIRD Bear den. (his son, the new recruit,and two boys from the den of 9, and one boy from the den of 8 = 5 boys for the newly formed Den).

The Den Leader that has nine boys, will potentially have three boys move to the new den (thus leaving him at 6 boys)... is he is not at all supportive with this happening. He wants the new recruit to just come into his den, thus putting him at 10 boys... and stay at two dens - not three.

The issue is this: The Den Leader of the nine boys, the one that opposes the forming of a new Bear Den... is also the Cub Master. He has stated that as Cub Master, that he has the authority to choose who gets to be a den leader, how many dens, and which den the boys will be in.

The Committee Chair disagrees, and is of the position that it is the CC and COR who approve leaders (including DL's) and thus the CC will decide how many dens will exist, and is of the opinion that a new den is necessary, and will give room for more new recruits to come in...

So who has the authority here ?? the CM or the CC ??

Thanks for the imput. This farther said he would rather not even apply if it means that this prior is found out. Said he would rather just remain "a dad" than be out'ed.

For our Pack Family camp we are going to have the boys make Native American Necklaces... beads, bear claws, arrowheads, ect...

Which are the best online suppliers out there for this type of craft supplies ?

I have a father who is a great asset to our Pack. He is one of those dads who makes sure his son is at every event, is always willing to help out and volunteer, and even to take the lead on some events.

I asked him to serve as DL of a newly formed Den, and he said he would.... but that he has a prior Domestic Violence conviction on a ex-wife about seven years ago. He said he completed probation without a problem (three year probation). He is now remarried to a different woman, who also is a great asset to our pack.

He thinks he will be denied the DL positino because of this (Adult Application requires him to disclose). What is BSA policy as to those with this type of criminal record ??

One of our webelos leaders does not want to take IOLS because he says he has to then take it again if he helps as a ASM in another year.

It seems to make sense do combine them both into one course.

I also dont understand really why we make our Tiger DL's do leader specific training, and then we make them do it AGAIN the next year as a Wolf DL.