WestCoastScouter

This might seem silly... but here is the question...

When using Den Number designation...

Is it Den 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... for all the dens regardless of age group? i.e. Den 1 might be Bears, Den 2 could be Wolves, Den 3 Wolves, Den 4 Tigers, Den 4 Bears...

OR

is it Wolf Den 1; Wolf Den 2. Tiger Den 1, Tiger Den 2. Bear Den 1, Bear Den 2, Bear Den 3.... ect ect....

or is it just up to us to choose. I could see confusion set in if you say, Den 1 is doing a song... and we dont know if Wolf Den 1, or Tiger Den 1 is being called up.

I agree that the general intent is for a cub to attend a standard Day Camp...

Under the idea that any one to five day program, would then include merely a BB Gun - Archery Day, or even the Council Race Finals of PWD... And I dont think anyone would say that a Council PWD program would count towards being a "day camp".

My son also did not earn when he was a Tiger, he did complete at the end of that following summer...

Had a cordial disagreement last night at pack committee meeting...

To take Webelos out camping (lets say at local scout camp)for a weekend...

What training, if any, is necessary...?? I'be been told (1) "none because they are Webelos" (2) BALOO (3) IOWLS

Help...

My experience was similar to LisaBob...

The CM, ACM, and CC (the wife of the CM), had program disagreements with two Den Leaders. It got to the point that the CM, ACM, & CC created the term "Executive Committee", above the Pack Committee and kicked the two DL's out of the pack. (Never discussed it with the COR who was a "sign here" COR type)

The two DL's did leave, but took their two dens with them, which was about 30% of the Pack. After that another handful of boys left after the original packs' program then suffered even more... It turns out the Den Leaders who were booted were doing most of the work for programs... the remaining leadership were committee leaders only, and had no boy leadership skills in the field.

Occassionally something happens that causes a mass exodus of families and/or scouts from a unit... Where a quarter to half of a unit up and transfers to a different unit...

Just as a conversation piece... what past things have you seen happen that has caused this to take place... ??

Going back to the original question... as to whether it's the Pack Committee or the DE that "finds" a new CO. I would say "both" should be searching for a good fit. The pack committee and the DE speaking to potential CO's for the best fit.

Now it can be an amicable split, where the current CO is simply unable to continue, or they are just "tired" of sponsoring the unit. It would be most beneficial if the current CO would allow just a complete transfer... of unit number, finances, and property of the unit.

If it's a contentious termination of a unit... Then the pack leadership should tell parents their options. Join another unit or create a new unit. If creating a new unit, or simply finding a new CO, then the leadership/parents should have some honest and friendly talks with potential CO's to see where the unit will do best.(This message has been edited by westcoastscouter)

IMHO - It is positive, enthusiastic, & well organized adult leadership that assists in keeping a troop (or pack) going strong.

I have seen units that are booming with activity, and the creme de la creme of the District. Then leadership transitions to new people, and literally I have seen units fall apart under lazy new leadership....

I've seen/heard of a couple of CO switches.

(1) A Masonic group was unable to continue, so with their obvious consent and permission.... a Pack and Troop switched to a local church...

(2) A church that wanted leadership just from their parish... caused some..... issues... so again with their "permission" the Pack and Troop moved to another CO.

So it happens.... but you dont dissolve the pack... its rare but it happens.

... kinda funny how some threads get lots of responses...!! :-)

I agree that a sharp looking campsite with identical tents are sharp looking. Problem sometimes is also that after the purchase, that some designs are then discontinued. Our troop used a certain type of Kelty... then four years later they discontinued... so we had to go with a different Kelty...

Your right that it is probably a combination of things, each boy that did not continue had a different reason... I'v been told there is about a typical 50% drop out rate in the first year.

Maybe the boy was signed up and assisted by parents while a cub...

Maybe the boy is now getting more into soccer... baseball... ect.

Maybe the boy has a girlfriend now...

In my humble opinion the two most important things to do to address this problem:

(1) A cub program that over each year prepares the boy more for scouting. I've seen packs that never have their Webelos campout, & dont' prepare them for what a troop might be like.... ect. I've also seen Packs where the Webelos II's visit the troops 2-3 times over the 18 months... small work projects... Webelos overnights... ect..

(2) A good introduction into scouting when they bridge... a patrol counselor (either a ASM or a senior scout) who will take the time to explain how scouting is different than Webelos, help them earn a couple of basic merit badges... This means quality 1 on 1 time, making them feel welcome and that they belong to the troop.... a phone call if they start to fade away...

Imagine a 11 year old... who used to be just with boys his own age, and now is the youngest, and surrounded by boys who might be driving a car, shaving, ect... it can be a bit apprehensive for a new scout... boys will want to go where they feel wanted and have fun.

When you figure that the first year of scouting in a troop is most important in regards to retention... a little extra guideance might boost your retention numbers.

I'm sure others have tips too....

(This message has been edited by westcoastscouter)

Whoops... I see how I wrote that wrong...

I should have typed: "Mom wants her son to attend the overnight... but mom cannot with her one year old" (per mom's opinion)

Let me go back and edit that....!!!

Of course this is supposed to be how it works... I once saw a Pack create a "Executive Committee" that was "above" the Pack Committee. It was made up of the CC, CM, and ACM. They essentially said they had to power to make final decisions, and even removed two den leaders who they did not "approve" of their program. They said they were given Carte Blanche by the COR to do whatever they wanted. The COR was never seen... Maybe that's why 1/3 of the pack left to go to another pack....

Of course this is supposed to be how it works... I once saw a Pack create a "Executive Committee" that was "above" the Pack Committee. It was made up of the CC, CM, and ACM. They essentially said they had to power to make final decisions, and even removed two den leaders who they did not "approve" of their program. They said they were given Carte Blanche by the COR to do whatever they wanted. The COR was never seen... Maybe that's why 1/3 of the pack left to go to another pack....

I just today had this issue come up, so great to be able to read everyone's opinions.

We are having our family pack campout in two weeks. One boy wants to go, and his mom would like him to go. Dad is serving in Air Force in Afganistan. Mom has a 1 year old baby also at home... Mom and boy want to spend the night...

I cracked open my Cub Scout Leader Book (2007 Printing), and on page 33-5, under "Planning a Pack Overnighter" - "Who attends?" it states,

"If a parent cannot attend, the boy's family must make arrangements for one of the other parents attending, or for another adult relative or friend, to be a substitute at the overnighter."

Now to me, that seems to be in conflict with the premise that a boy should be sleeping with a parent or guardian. It also makes good common sense. You would not just put him in his own tent, by himself. Heaven forbid some molester male is there, and at 2 am sneaks into this alone boys tent !!!

I think the idea for a parent/guardian in the tent is for the protection of the boy from the unthinkable.

So how then do I reconcile the above language from the Cub Scout Leaders Book, to that of "each boy must have a parent/guardian?"

Are Webelos together in a Den or in a Patrol ??

what do we call it ??

Assuming its a Patrol, then should we allow the boys to select a patrol name ??

Luckily that is not our issue... which is inviting families to drive the 45 minutes to our camp, visit us for the day (or the night), and use as recuitment tool. We do allow grandmas and grandpas...

Are we allowed to invite families with boys to come to our Family Campout at the local BSA Campground ? We want to use it as a recruitent tool, but some thoughts of insurance/coverage if their son is not yet a registered cub scout.??

ScoutNut:

I see your point about working on his Webelos requirements during the summer...

I was really more "surprised" by the fact that he could, per rules, bridge to a Boy Scout Troop at the end of 4th grade, do to his being 10.5 years old by then.... I am not going to encourage him to do that...

I think he will have more fun, and will be better prepared for the transition by remaining a Webelos for another 7-8 months... Just because its "possible" does not mean it's "advisable".

Thought it was just interesting that he could... just for the point of discussion here...

My son will be 10-1/2 yrs old when he completes 4th grade. (We waited a year for him to start Kindergarten)

For the sake of argument... he woulc have been a Webelos for 12 months at the completion of 4th grade... thus he "theoretically" could have his Webelos Badge by September/October of 4th grade...

and also his Arrow of Light at the end of 4th grade? (meeting the requirement of "or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old, and earn the Webelos badge")

So technically my son could get his AoL, and be 10.5 years old at the end of 4th grade ?? (A question... not a statement)

Not that I would want him to do it... (1) I would not want him to push himself that fast to do it... slow and steady is better.. and (2) He needs to be with his friends/den buddies vs. leaving them so early...

Still interesting.... He could go to a troop at the end of 4th grade... correct ??

In our town of about 30,000 people we have four troops.

Three are about 25-30 scouts, and one is about 12 scouts.

Just a thought... as I read about these large troops...?? Maybe we have too many troops for our town? What is the ideal size of a troop?

Just for discussion....(This message has been edited by westcoastscouter)

Our local State Park has a nature boat that State Park Rangers use to take people out onto a lake. Holds up to 30 people....

I have already done the Safety Afloat class online. Am I supposed to also have First Aid/CPR ?? Boys will not be swimming... just sitting in boat.

FOLLOW-UP question:

Then if a WDL wants to take his Webelos out for an overnight, at the local scout campground, then ?? He needs what training if any ??

and 2nd ? Must a parent or guardian accompany the Webelos Scout?

When a Webelos Patrol goes on an overnight campout/visit with a Scout Troop.... must the Webelos Leader be BALOO trained ?? or is it sufficient that the Scoutmaster of the troop is fully trained as a Scoutmaster? (But the SM is not himself BALOO trained either?)

We do a Neckerchief ceremeony of the boys at our June family campout...during the campfire program. parents come down with new neckers and then boys are called down by den. Then we do a fun reading for the Akela and their son...

For Webelos, its just the bears to webelos, they then announce their patrol name to the group (supposedly kept secret by the boys until then), and their new patrol yell !!

Several racoons were fighting the night before over garbage, so the boys decided to call themselves the Rowdy Racoons !