WAKWIB

I think God forsook this forum a long time ago. There probably should be a banner at the top of the Issues and Politics page that says: "Abandon all hope, all ye who enter here!"

Is it typical for two active topics to disappear over the course of 3 days? I posted the link to Trail Life's website once....that thread went poof. Did it again Sunday...poof.

You know what's really awesome? I reposted the initial link with the title "Trail Life USA Introduced" It was up for a couple of days and disappeared.

I think this boils down to adult egos.....

I think flaunt to them is our old "Don't ask, Don't Tell".. Which was a problem, because that meant "As long as no one finds out"..

 

I got this from a link..

"Trail Life USA will be inclusive of boys, regardless of religion, race, national origin or socioeconomic status, and accept boys who are experiencing same-sex attractions or gender confusion," a statement from the group says.

 

"However, it will not admit youth who are open or avowed about their homosexuality, and it will not admit boys who are not 'biologically male' or boys who wish to dress and act like girls."

 

Interesting Trails Life says they welcome all religions, yet specify they are a "Christian" organization. So does that mean if your not Christian, they don't consider you a true religion? Curious what the little 1 next to it's yes is for.. Is it about the Christian/ all religion thing, or is it about those that are unchurched..

[1] Charter partners own and operate local groups, selecting leaders and admitting members as they deem beneficial to their group and within the parameters of the national policy (excerpted from Membership Standards).

The whole business that I posted here is a cached shot of a page from the old site. I don't think it's part of the new site yet. They just did the change-over during the weekend.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZQosJfUAmdAJ:www.onmyhonor.net/difference-from-bsa/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I posted the stuff below on the thread that vanished the other night. It was from the older onmyhonor dot net site. Maybe it will explain things better, or maybe not....

Outline of Differences between the Boy Scouts of America

and the new Youth Adventure Program:

1) The BSA's new policy requires troops to accept "open and avowed homosexuality" among its boys. The new group does not.

2) The BSA's new policy requires troops to accept boys who express any "sexual preference." The new group does not.

3) The BSA's new policy appears to require troops to accept transgendered boys whose "sexual preference" is to dress and act out like a girl. The new group does not.

4) The BSA's new policy also appears to allow girls who subjectively want to act out as boys as their "sexual preference". The new group specifically requires youth members to be "biologically male."

5) The BSA has no fixed objective standard for what words like "morally straight", "clean" and "reverent" mean. The new group clearly articulates its values and morals.

6) The heart of the mission statement of the BSA is to "prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes." In contrast, the basis of the new group's ethics, morals, and values come from the Bible and the statement of values which expressly defines those standards.

7) The BSA has no fixed or objective standard for normative human sexuality or what it means to be "morally straight." The new group is clear that "any sexual activity outside the context of the covenant of marriage between one man and one woman is sinful before God and therefore inconsistent with the values and principles of the program."

8) The BSA is a non-sectarian organization that has a generic "duty to God." The new organization is "Christ- Centered" in that it requires adult members to subscribe to and abide by a Christian statement of faith and values.

9) The BSA's decision-making comes through the centralized control of professional paid executives, whose hand-selected delegates vote a certain way in policy change. The new organization, in order to respect the will of local leaders and members, has decentralized control.

I have no idea what happened...can't find it squirreled away anywhere. I'm going to vote for glitch until someone else comes up with a better explanation.

Well by golly it is... I guess the forum po-po didn't like it, or it is just one of the casualties of a glitchy web-site. Guess I'll just start 'er up again.

Maybe one of the moderators can move this to the sticky thread about de-bugging. Supposedly, the admin is looking at that thread and trying to fix reported problems. They do get resolved, eventually.... This site has been kind of a hot mess since an upgrade earlier this year, but it's showing ongoing improvements.

True, that. And the same could be said of Mr. Perry. It was just late-night nonsense meant to produce a giggle. Probably would have to take out a loan to feed Tico anyway.

In the troop I've served the last 13 years we have never taken up "dues." The Scouts and their parents have worked hard at fund-raising over the years to build up a pretty good war-chest, and receive generous donations from troop alumni as well. If you're on the charter roster for 2013, your fee will be paid by the troop if you haven't paid yet and you will be on the charter for 2014. There are, of course, obvious exceptions like those who are known to have transferred or haven't darkened the door of the building at all for 12 months. Shortly after Jan. 1, if you haven't paid, the CC and Secretary will track you down like bloodhounds and you will promptly. and in sincere repentance write the check on the spot. . They will also do this with OA dues as well. Everything else is a pay as you go.

Each unit pretty much will have their own approach to this. I don't think the Council, in my town at least, will interject as long as they get the paperwork and full payment when it is due.

Next time I stagger into Irving, I'm going to try and take Wayne, the other Wayne, and Tico out to dinner. I think we'll do Chick-fil-A.

Glad you finally get to celebrate the scouting accomplishments of a family member. Always a good time! His project sounds first-rate. I always enjoy hearing about a project that goes a different direction than the usual building/remodeling project.

Our Troop is chartered to a Catholic parish church' date=' and we identify as that church's Scout Troop. By tradition, and on direction from the COR and parents association board, our Troop always attends Catholic Mass together while on campouts. We pretty much insist that all the Scouts attend together, treating it like any other part of the program. We make it clear to parents of Webelos crossing over, and new Scouts joining the Troop, that this is our policy. Even so, occasionally a new leader will balk and sit in the parking lot during Mass or take his son back to the campsite while the rest of us go. Most of the leaders and about half of the Scouts are Catholic. The other half of the Scouts are pretty evenly split between other Christian denominations or do not identify with any denomination at all. Is there any BSA policy on Troops attending church services together when they are sponsored by a religious institution?[/quote']

 

Frankly, SMWally, on Scouter dot com I think you will find members with a strong contempt for religion by a margin of 2-to-1 or greater. I don't think you will find the best information for the issue you are describing here. Take it up "in-house" and "in-person" with the leadership of your COR and/or Council leadership that might be more willing to have an open, unbiased dialogue with you about the role and policy of religion in Scouting.

In no particular order, here are some of my thoughts on the Jamboree. I was on staff (high-power rifle range) the entire time and showered most days. I bought a solar shower at the trading post for $25 or so and filled it up and left it in the sun (and rain sometimes) during the day and showered at the end of the day. The first time I used the solar shower the water in the bag was 110 degrees (nifty little thermometer built into the bag) and it was a GREAT shower. I had several days where the water in the bag was 140 degrees. I had to hold the bag under the ambient water shower for a few minutes to cool it. I had great warm showers, great hot water with which to shave, and all and all had no complaints about my shower situation. It would have absolutely sucked to not have that solar shower. There was one day where it was super hot throughout the day and I did a shower sans the solar shower. It was brisk, for sure. I can see this being an issue for future Jamborees.

 

I was in Base Camp Echo and the food was good. Lunches sucked for the most part. I grabbed an apple or two and a banana at breakfast and brought them along for lunch - wish I had thought to grab a bagel or some bread or something. Breakfast and dinner was very good. Dining hall staff were great - good spirits, great job.

 

Staff tents? Not bad at all. So much I'm thinking about buying one or two of those wall tents they have for sale. Would be great for those "drive and camp" campouts we seem to do so much of back home. The cots? Discobeds. Surprisingly comfortable. Shoot, I'm thinking of buying one or two of them as well.

 

We had buses laid on for the shooting sports staff as it was a 90-120 minute walk each way to the range. I was disappointed that the participants had so much walking to do - not because of the physical fitness aspect of it but because of the time involved. I gotta believe this is going to have a huge impact on whether folks return. There was a lot of walking for everybody. I was pleased to see that the trading post sold baby powder. Or better put, my boys were pleased I could buy some baby powder. Pack a big container of it if you attend next time.

 

Speaking of trading posts? The thing I bought the most? Those Thorlo socks. I brought 5 pair down with me. And a bunch of the green BSA socks. I wore my first five pairs on the first five days. I tried the green socks for one day. Ah, no. Funny, as I use them on troop campouts all the time. But I don't walk that much on troop campouts. An estimate, but I figured I did ten miles of walking each day. As an aside, I lost 10 lbs at Jambo. I was too cheap to send my laundry to Granny's Laundry (really, that was the name of the local concession offering laundry service in Echo base camp). I did the old wash 'em in a bucket. I hung everything out to dry and it was a great sunny day the next day. I was feeling pretty smart until it poured down rain that afternoon while I was still at the rifle range. Damn. I ended up just buying a set of socks for each day. I guess it would have been cheaper to pay the $10 to Granny, but it was essentially a two-day turnaround. Anyhow, I bought new socks. I was a little disappointed that the socks in the trading post were a few dollars cheaper than the same thing they were selling online at ScoutingStuff.org - but only because I had bought five pairs beforehand. Ah, don't look a gift horse in the mouth I guess. I bought a jambo chair (even thought I had brought one of those really cool REI camp chairs portable camp chairs they were selling at the Scout store). The portable chair just wasn't comfortable after a long day on the range. I also bought a lightweight rain jacket and a nifty pair of Jambo shorts.

 

I traded my Shooting Sports hat for a freaken' awesome hat from an adult Scouter from North Carolina. Thanks man! You know who you are. I'm groovin' to your hat.

 

The phone charging stations were all solar - in case you wondered why you got a 10th of a charge after 2 or 3 hours on the charging station. Everybody plugged their devices into the outlets in the shower house... ummm... 15 or 20 amps for 20 devices all daisy chained together? Do the math - that didn't work out well either. In Base Camp Echo they had a few real charging stations across from the trading post that had portable batteries with 650 or 850 amp batteries and those did the trick. I don't think that many people even realized they were there.

 

Broken bones? No idea how factual this is, but I heard there were 800 broken bones at the Jamboree - many at the BMX site, with a significant percentage at the same place on the course. I get you'll have broken bones at something like this but do wonder if course design had something to do with it. It would have been nice to have somebody step forward and say "um, yeah, lots of broken bones at this part in the course - we're going to change it or close down this part of the course." Now I got no idea whether that would be a realistic thing to do or not, but as both a parent and a Scouter, I'd like to think there was somebody thinking about this. There were also two fatalities at the Jamboree - both older Scouters. One a few days before the Scouts arrived and one during the second week. My understanding is that they were adults with a history of heart problems. Again, no real specific information on these, all rumor, but fairly certain there were two guys that didn't come home. Sympathies and prayers go out to those two guys and their families. I mention this because I've seen some threads that talked about the BMI and weight and health history and all that. Again, no idea whether these were factors in the two deaths, but I think it safe to assume it likely.

 

We closed the rifle range once or twice when there was nearby lightning. We had one group that had waited in line for an hour or two and had just completed the safety briefing and were put on the line. I was the RSO and had just given the command to "aim and align rifles" (just prior to "load and fire") when we had to call a cease fire. The operations folks told us the kids had to clear the hill and boogie down the hill. No idea where they were supposed to go to seek shelter, perhaps the big tents at the bottom of the hill. The hill, by the way? We all called it cardiac hill because it was a hump to get from the bottom of the hill to the rifle ranges. I could easily see a kid humping to the top of the hill, waiting in line, getting on the range, having the range closed & sent to the bottom of the hill saying "i'm not walking back up there". Unfortunate. Having said that, we sent probably 7500 kids through the high-power range - .223 and .308 rifles. The boys that made the hump early and got there first thing in the morning got to shoot lots. I told the boys that the early bird got the ammo and if there was no line, they were welcome to stay on the line. One kid in particular stands out - he was on the range at least three different days. I did wonder what he was giving up to be there, but he was passionate about shooting. I bet that kid easily shot 500-600 rounds of .308. That's saying a lot since it was in increments of 10 rounds. I did give some thought to saying "come on kid, hit the road, go see the rest of the Jamboree", but at the end of the day, it was his Jamboree and that's what he wanted to do. We had Scouters from around the world - I had boys (and girls) from Australia, UK, Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Spain, Thailand, Taiwan, Bangladesh, and a bunch of other countries I can't recall.

 

"...the use of the name 'Girl Scouts' inflicted psychological damage on the boys..."

Can't argue with that!

I didn't go to Jamboree, but have enjoyed keeping up on it via friends on Facebook, etc. The amount of waste does sound horrific, but I think that's just an unfortunate part of the learning cycle for stuff like this. I know that it has taken years for our Council camps to settle on a menu that gets consumed with little waste. It also seems like it was more of a problem of over-supply than anything else. Having other foods at the trading post is always going to be a temptation, whether the Scout is truly hungry or not. Face it; it's just a profit center.

Maybe it would be better to blame, not the Jamboree, but poor planning on the part of the camp director and the like. Going to Jambo is not some snap decision that the volunteers made the day before your webelos came to camp. It was known way in advance of anything with plenty of opportunity to fill in the gaps. It would be the same thing with a Troop. Although the Jambo may have been a feature event for SOME of the leaders and scouts to focus on, they rest need to have the usual program in place and functioning. None of this is impossible. I think you did the right thing, BD in bringing up in your camp evaluation so they won't needlessly drop the ball next time.

Like others mentioned, aim your recruitment mentality and activity for the boys. The adults will follow. Don't get wrapped up about the policy business. I think the pro-Scouters would prefer you to worry about it so they don't have to. If someone is intent on pestering you about it, give them a copy of the policy with the phone number/email of your Council Scout Executive. Either type, those who think Scouting has crossed a bad line, or those who think Scouting still intolerant, are likely not really in the market for BSA involvement anyway.

He's doing whatever dam thing it is beavers are supposed to do.

Yeah. This kind of thing will blow over in time, although a few weeks can seem like a very, very long time. Hopefully, the whole accusation business will get laid to rest quickly as well. A Council person may be on the phone with you asking some hard questions, but if it's all unfounded and untrue it should be apparent to him.

In both cases of Open Discussion and I & P if I click on the "latest activity" button it reveals the topics.

My suggestion is that the order of the day is do what your son wants. It's pretty much his party. The thing about your son reciting the Oath and Law by himself is not mandatory. It was possibly done at his EBOR as that is a tradition in some troops...often done for the other ranks as well, but it's not even a requirement for that. His "Eagle was Legal" the moment he passed his Board of Review.

Thanks, fgoodwin. Seldom do I find anything posted around here that helps me integrate my faith and world-view with my involvement in Scouting. This came at the right time for me.

First, one needs to realize that this vote one-way-or-the-other does not clear up the matter. For me, it's starting to become just a lot of unwelcome noise. Scouting has been a part of my identity for over 40 years, almost as much a part of me as family, church and profession. It would never be easy for me to cut the cord for any reason and policy has always ranked low on my list...kind of came from that school of thought that "rules are meant to be broken" . I am at a bit of a crossroads right now as to level of involvement but it's not really related to this business. Kids are out of Scouting, and I'm approaching the empty nest phase. Work has pressed for most of my attention the last couple of years, so I'm hit-and-miss with Scouting activities as it is. So...no matter what happens at the vote, I'll take it one day at a time, but I will always cherish my Scouting background.