WAKWIB

A big congrats on your project!! I must say it provided a great service to your community. It is also something unique and creative. Most of the projects I see, have to do with building something. Good to see something quite different.

We have to do a bit of shepherding with the first-year campers, but we do have quite a few older 4 and 5 year Scout campers we can delegate that to. We go on several outpost camps during the session and that keeps some of our adults busy. We conduct a lot of Board of Review's at camp which is something else some of our adults can do.

For my part, my last post violated the 6th point of the Scout Law. I apologize.

As for TA, (just an educated guess here) I think he clearly expressed the setiments of many 13-15 year old newbies in the Order of the Arrow.

I don't think he was stiving for eloquence...he was making a point without mincing words or hiding his true feelings.

I wouldn't judge the entire organization based on his comments alone, as he is only been a part of it for a short time. I happen to agree with his overall point, but I'm not a part of that particular honor society, and as an adult, wouldn't have a say in much anyway. Perhaps I should ask some of the chapter and lodge leaders in our area how they feel about girls joining their organization. Maybe they would set myself and TA straight.

Yep TP, Fits you like a glove!!

Since that "press release" is complete fiction....campaign hat will not be served today. I am suprised that so many appear to be enthusiastic in having girls dressing up and playing Indian.

Constructive note: I have participated in a couple of threads on this forum that dealt with new honor societies for Venture Scouts being formed. One was in Guam and another in Australia. If I were to suggest something, I think that would be it. It would actually work out better in the long-run, I think, if Venture Scouts could create their own thing, tailored to their age, requirements and gender composition. Something they could own, instead of redesigning Order of the Arrow to accomodate them.

My sincere apologies to the ladies who post here....but I must be honest.

The day I see girls under the age of 18 inducted into either the Order of the Arrow or the Tribe of Mic-O-Say, will be the day I eat my campaign hat!!

(since that day will probably come sooner than later, can anyone recommend a good wine to go with my hat??)

......gotta love it!!!!

It would be a great one for a camp-fire.

As long as the participants don't hop and quack to close to the fire.

Roast Duck, anyone??

......gotta love it!!!!

It would be a great one for a camp-fire.

As long as the participants don't hop and quack to close to the fire.

Roast Duck, anyone??

To Red Feather: How do you manage to get to Philmont every three years. We have been trying for three years and end up on the waiting list every time. If you know any secret code to help us get in...let me know!!!

For Firecrafter info. go to www.firecrafter.org. It is apparently active only in central Indiana. It appears to be a good mix of OA and MOS tradition. It may be very adaptable to a Venture environment.

BTW-Bethlehem Penn. is my dad's hometown. His father and his brothers all put in some time at the steel mill. Two of his brother's retired from there about twenty years ago.

I kind of remember seeing it way back when I was a little kid. Every Saturday for a couple of years I went to a kid's matinee movie at a neighborhood theatre, and I'm (almost) positive that was one of the many features I saw. I'll have to go rent it to refresh my lagging memory. Plus I think my SPL son would get a kick out of it. BTW--A couple of months ago I saw an old theatre poster for "Follow Me Boys" out on eBay.

WAKWIB

That site is awesome. I'll pass it on!!

Thanks.

I would suggest coming up with your own unique society for your district or council. You and your peers best understand what kind of elements of an honor society can best motivate youth to join and continue in Venturing. Good Luck!!

Gee, FOG... Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!!

Our council wants $1600 for the Jambo Trip with the contingent. There are some extra tours and other things included. I know it's a great opportunity....but the price???

My wife and I have home schooled our kids from the start. Oldest son is now 15, younger son is 9. When my oldest turned 11 we joined just a regular troop chartered by a church in our area. A couple of home-school families we knew had some older boys in the program there. I registered as an assistant scoutmaster. Now my oldest son is the Senior Patrol Leader of the troop (30+ active members). He is doing a fine job, so far. The other home school boys have got Eagle rank and moved on, so at present we are the only home school family in the troop. But it is working out great.

The Lone Scout program is probably something you do not want unless you are in an area with no Troop at all, or the boy is restrained by medical reasons. You would want your son to have the social interaction, group activities, and leadership development a troop provides.

We have in our area, a home-school association with about 250+ member families. It is basically a resource-sharing and support group. It is gradualy moving into other areas such as team sports and music groups. About a year ago they chartered a Cub Pack, and a Boy Scout Troop and I understand it is doing well. If you belong to an association such as this, chartering and starting a Troop would be no different for that association than it would be for any other school, church, American Legion, etc.

Your first point of contact for this would be your local BSA council office.

So your options for your home schooled son would be:

1) join an existing troop in your area.

2) if you belong to a home-school association, see if there is an interest in chartering a troop.

3) if you belong to a church---same as #2

As far as specific web-sites, I am not aware of any, but I could just about promise that there are a number of home-school association sponsored troops throughout the country with a web-site, and I'm sure you could e-mail them to see how they got started. Do a google search with the key words "homeschool association boy scout troop". In fact I just did and here are a couple of sites:

http://www.nctroop94.org/metadot/index.pl?id=0

http://www.netcache.org/troop98/

I truly hope that you and your family can enjoy the benefits of Scouting.

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(This message has been edited by WAKWIB)

Fuzzy Bear writes:"I was told that MOS was allowed to continue because there was a large concentration in the Kansas City/St. Louis area and many who were wealthy supporters of Scouting. I have often wondered about these stories and the dual programs of MOS and the OA."

Concerning Mic-O-Say.....It has never existed in St. Louis. But it was started in St. Joseph (which is about 50 miles north of Kansas City) in 1925. The founder, H.Roe Bartle was the Scout Executve for that Council (Pony Express Council). He had come up with the idea while serving as an Executive in Wyoming, where he was exposed to native American customs and ceremony. He was adopted into the one of the local tribes as an honorary member and given the name "Lone Bear"--which was the name of the chief that befriended Bartle. When started in St. Joseph, MOS replaced an existing organization called Manhawka. Bartle came to be the Kansas City Area Council, and MOS began there in 1929. When the KC council in Missouri, and the Kaw Council just across the State Line in Kansas merged in 1974, we suddenly had two honor societies--MOS and the Tamegonit Lodge of the Order of the Arrow. Now many folks in this area hold dual membership. As far as I know OA has never existed in St Joseph.

Based on what I've read on the usscouts.org site, there was an organization began in Kansas City in 1915 called the Tribe of Gimogash which predates OA by about a year...I think. It only lasted one summer in Kansas City though, the executive who started it by the last name of Medenhall, was transferred to Toledo and his "tribe" idea went with him, and apparently what remained of Gimogash in KC just folded up. I understand that Gimogash did continue in Ohio and in several other states for a number of years.

Bartle (Chief Lone Bear of the Tribe of Mic-O-Say) is pretty much a legend around here. He was a mayor here after his professional Scouting days, and was known as "the Chief" by Scouters and non-Scouters alike. The Kansas City Chiefs football team who suffered a defeat today at the hands of the Colts, got their name from Bartle's nickname.

I was wonderin'....are the "pros" required to take some or all of the training that volunteers are encouraged or required to take?

In my opinion, if a District Exec. would be required to take the Wood Badge course (and some of the other training), he/she would be:

1}more knowledgeable of how the program operates at the grass roots level.

2}be able to cultivate positive relationships with the volunteers he serves through the shared experiences of the training.

Maybe something like this is going on already. If not, it could be something to consider.

Congrats on your 5oth!!

Maybe some of the current Scouts could teach and lead a couple of "campfire songs". Especially some that most would find very humourous. And/Or showcase some other talents of your Scouts.

Dedicate a "time capsule" in which all who want to can submit something to be included. It is to remain sealed until your 75th Anniversary.

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(This message has been edited by WAKWIB)

I do not collect in large quantiies but do become fixated on some of the few items I aquire, but it's mostly Scouting stuff I've received from my involvement in the program. But one can become obsessed with just a few trinkets. If you have seen or read "Lord of the Rings", it took only one little precious ring to push Gollum over the edge (figuratively and literally!!).

What if Gollum were a Scouter??

"My precioussss patch...we loves it....puts it on our red vesst...yesss"

My Mic-O-Say tribal name is Sachem Sunlit Valley (Sachem is the "job title" of my present tribal council position). I chose the name Sunlit Valley in reference to the Osage River Valley where the Bartle Scout Reservation is situated. An interesting tradition in MOS at Bartle is for family members to use variations of the same name such as

just for example:

Big Brown Bear

Little Brown Bear

Least Brown Bear

Son of Little Brown Bear.....You get the idea. If my son is called into the Tribe this summer he is thinking of taking the name "Reflection Of Sunlit Valley".

"The problems come in running the business. There are tasks that need to be organized and we need some objective structure. I am having trouble remembering how the levels and positions in MOS translate. How does one advance in positions and how are offices taken? Must one be a certain level to be elected head honcho for the season? Is there a head honcho for the season? Where is the authority and how does that relate to the average member?"

Adrianvs,

There are a lot of questions to consider, and I suppose if you're starting from scratch, there is no exact right or wrong way. I'm not going to try and make MOS sound like the superior approach, although it has been very, very successful in retaining youth and adults, and it has had a significant impact on size and scope of our Scouting program in this area. It is very much camp-centered...very little activity throughout the rest of the year. During each session at camp we see well over 100 boys and adults combined enter the Tribe with some kind of Tribal activity occuring on about 5 nights of the session. It is very much adult led and staff performed, although both youth and adult campers can play a role as well, depending on their position of responsibility. Advancement occurs largely based on involvement in the Scouting program throughout the year. Camp staff moves up at a quicker pace. The main reason I am now a member of the Tribal Council now (an all adult group) is that I spent 6 summers as a youth on the camp staff. I worked my way up through the various positions and was selected by the Council of Chieftains to be on the TC. During our ceremonies, youth from both the troops and the staff perform many responsibilities. There are only two ranks--Brave and Warrior (Honorary Warrior if you enter as an adult}. For the youth the positions they can hold after becoming a Warrior are Firebuilder, Tom Tom Beater, Runner, Keeper of the Sacred Bundle, Shaman.

The Tribal Council elevates youth to these positions based on troop recommedations, or camp staff performance if the candidate is involved in that capacity.

Above the Tribal Council, who actually run the Tribe, there is the Council of Chieftains which act primarily as the Board of Directors. The Chief--the main head honcho if you will, is the Scout Executive of our BSA Council. He gets this position by default. Each year, someone from the volunteer ranks is appointed Presiding Chieftain for the year. This is generally an individual who has served many years in the rank and file of the districts or council. This is basically a figurehead position as far as the ceremonies go. The council of chieftains (comprised of those who have served as Presiding Chieftains). sets policy, initiates new program features, handles the finances etc. There is on-going communication between this council and the rest of the members, so those who what to make suggestions and provide information to ssist the chieftains in there decision-making.

Well, this may be too much, or not enough info. for you. The real success of Mic-O-Say is not in the structure. In fact, the outside observer (members also) could probably point to many flaws. It succeeds almost in spite of itself, due to the power of it's message and the committment it inspires. My advise, would be to find a model of organization that involves as many as possible in the ceremonies, and that keeps one interested in moving up the ladder of responsibility.

Whether you use an OA or MOS or whatever style of structure of operating, the message and ceremonies need to be taken seriously by all involved.

WAKWIB--AKA: Sachem Sunlit Valley

Fuzzy's story brings back memories of similar encounters. Back in my camp staff days, there were several "old-timers" that had the gift for saying the right thing at the right time. It was as if they could look into my mind and knew what I needed to hear, without me even saying a word. Although they are gone from this life, their words of concern, correction, and encouragement still live on in my life.