WAKWIB

Sure, it's a fact that homosexuality was accepted and prevalent in other cultures and times. But I don't believe that fact in itself makes it right or acceptable. Human sacrifice was accepted in many cultures as well. Should that fact give us cause to re-think our position on that practice. Nope.

Homosexuality was openly accepted and practiced by a number of societies during Biblical times. The God of the Bible said don't do it. I tend to think that we should at least give some thought to His perspective on this and other subjects. He seems to know what He's talking about.

Although a couple of days after the fact, I wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving! I will remember your family, Eamonn, in my prayers as well.

"I am curious..what is the BSA policy on transgenders?"

I am not sure why, but I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read that line. I guess it is because the idea of the BSA ever having to deal with such an issue seems so absurd.

My opinion is that such folks that would undergo a sex change are so far into the "twilight zone" that they would have absolutely no interest in Scouting.

But if it ever becomes an issue, you can be be sure that the great champions of the Constitution...yes that wonderful ACLU that is being so highly touted on other threads... will be right there to back them up.

Based on what I've seen coming from the ACLU over the last 20-30 years, I do not think that they give a rip about the Constitution. Just my humble opinion.

We have seen a similar group of younger SPL's and ASPL's emerge in the troop I serve over the past few years. One thing that they all seem to have in common is that they have taken part in some kind of Scout leadership development outside the troop that has motivated them to take the program to a different level. Such things as JLT, Brownsea, Order of the Arrow, and staff at summer camp, have really had an effect that has benefitted the overall performance of the troop

Glad you could join the group.

Look forward to reading your posts

OGE...I have had similar results in my discussions with co-workers who supported Kerry. No answers. They seemed (at least to me) to be motivated solely by an intense personal dislike for Bush. That was the only thing Kerry could capitalize on in his campaign. When it came to issues, the Senator continually wavered from one position to the next, unable to clearly define himself. His "plans" were unclear.

Removing Bush from office was their only agenda. One thing that the Democrats (as well as some Republicans) could learn from this is that hatred toward the opposition is not a winning strategy.

For the GOP in 2008:

Jeb Bush

For the Dem's:

Any one but Hillary. Face it, the Democrats seem have lost touch with much of the mainstream. I have heard from a number of Democrats that voted for Bush in this election. Ms. Clinton would do worse than Kerry. There are many Democrats in the RED states, who really want someone that speaks to them. The shrill, far-left minority in the Democratic party have alienated thousands. The DNC would do well to stop listening to the icons of the pop-culture, and recover their identity with the vast working class in the midwest.

My sister-in-law, and one of my good friends sends e-mails like this all the time. Sometimes it's a little thought provoking. Often it is a re-hash of something I've read a dozen times before. I guess that it is just a part of life on the Internet.

Now......If you pass this message along to at least 500 of your friends, you will have all your wildest fantasies come true at exactly 10:38pm (CST). Hey, such an event might encourage you to stay away from the computer for awhile!!

WARNING--DO NOT DELETE---If you do, may the fleas of 10,000 camels infest your armpits!!!

I guess the lesson that could be learned by reading that little sophmoric rant in the UK Mirror is that drugs and alcohol don't mix well. I suspect that Keith Richards or Ozzy Osbourne could write something just as stunning (perhaps even better) if they could pull themselves off the floor long enough to do so. The article was good for a laugh anyway.

Maybe the "squirrel" is our local Scout Executive who keeps all his nuts organized.

Interesting that the nut thing should come up since the troop I serve is in the middle of a fund-raising campaign which involves the selling of...

Yep, you guessed it--NUTS. Almost 50 different varieties and combinations.

I know my wife thinks I'm nuts when I spend up to two hours at a time talking to Scouting friends on the phone.

AHG is a reference the American Heritage Girls.

A quote from their web-site:

(http://www.ahgonline.org/)

"American Heritage Girls Organization is a scouting program for girls that supports the traditional values of God, Family and Country. AHG's programming promotes the Judeo-Christian values upon which our country was founded and strives to enhance the girls life experiences with fun filled activities supervised by trained adults, supported by family members and implemented by members. AHG's programming provides life skills, leadership skills and character building through a traditional troop setting."

If I had a daughter, this sounds like a program I would consider involvement with. From what I have heard over the years, it seems as if GSA has lost her direction to some degree. However, I am rather ignorant of the ways of our sister organization.

The title is eye-catching to say the least. The message rings very true. I imagine it will make the rounds and I will hear it at some Scout event someday. (probably use it myself sometime.) Thanks for the good word brother.

Eamonn, I have Juno which has it's own "backup-wizard" that enables me to save e-mail and the address book to a floppy disk. I imagine Outlook has something like that but I'm not sure where it's located.

The troop I serve has become very dependent on e-mail. When our current Scoutmaster took over he made it pretty clear that it would be his preferred method of communication. A number of folks were like the ones described by EagleInKY...never checked their e-mail. After missing some important announcements they were soon broke of that habit. I guess the point is if you give out your e-mail address, make sure you check it daily.

OA is to many of us long-time MOS members something of a unique thing. It is THE national society, and for many years we in Kansas City, MO were sort of encased in a bubble...focused solely on our own program. OA affords many opportunities for youth to experience a different level of Scouting. OA is also different from MOS in that it speaks more of peer recognition. The candidates for MOS are voted on and approved by adults only. I do think that the Lodge here needs to do much more to get prepared for the large groups that attend the Spring and Fall induction weekends. My son describes these weekends as a "train wreck". I see his point. We witnessed the ceremonies done during a summer camp session, and the overall process seemed more effective with the smaller group. In terms of purpose and methods, each group definately has it's own distinctives. The MOS ceremonies are much, much more elaborate. A strong emphasis on costuming is part of it. Not only are the "main players" in Indian attire, but so are the candidates and many of the spectators. The MOS induction process takes place over a 5-day period, and a large number of the camp staff are involved in the various stages of the operation. It becomes something of a second job for them while on staff. So, even though it is adult led, those under 21 (both staff and campers) get to play quite a big part in it. A key factor in guys returning to camp is the oportunity to advance in rank and responsibility. It should be noted, since one of the chief criticisms from outside the Council about MOS is that it is adult led, is that many in Tribal leadership are those men who grew up in the program and have worked their way through various ceremonial responsibilities while they were kids.

Thanks OGE for moving this thread to it's proper home! Also, thanks for the advice posted so far. Yes, I know we are down to the wire in many respects. We were on the waiting list and just got confirmation a couple weeks ago. So.....wish us luck!!

WAKWIB

Whoops, I didn't really want this in the Cub section, could the moderator please put it in the appropriate place!

Thanks.

Fellow Scouters,

Some young men in the troop I serve will be heading for Philmont this summer. They are all rookies in the area of High Adventure backpacking, and will need some help in getting the best backpacks for the job. Are there any good on-line resources you can recommend to help these guys get started in finding the right gear? Thanks!

WAKWIB(This message has been edited by WAKWIB)

Proud Eagle,

I can't write a detailed post at this time, but I can take a minute to answer some of your questions. OA and MOS have lived side by side in the Heart of America Council (Kansas City Metro Area) for about 30 years. The Tribe of Mic-O-Say began in the KC Area Council in 1929 at Camp Dan Sayre, and the next year moved to Camp Osceola (now the H. Roe Bartle Scout Reservation).It originated with H. Roe Bartle when he was Executive of the Pony Express Council in St. Joseph in '25 and he imported it to KC when he became Executive here. The Tamagonit Lodge #147 of the Order of the Arrow began in '39 at Camp Naish in the Kaw Council in Kansas, just across the state line. The two councils merged in the mid-seventies, and for a long while there was still a lot of seperation, the Missouri troops went to the Bartle reservation and did MOS only, the Kansas troops went to Camp Naish and did OA only. However a lot of the Kansas troops began to go to Bartle, and attendance at Naish dropped considerably. Now they have 3 sessions of summer camp with only about 200 Scouts in attendance, whereas Bartle contains 3 seperate camps each running 6 sessions with about 500 scouts in each camp each session. For a while many OA's from Kansas were becoming MOS, or simply ignored OA altogether in favor of MOS and gradually the Lodge began to decline a lot. However, at some point in the early '90's the Lodge began to host induction weekends at Naish in the Spring and Fall so if you were elected you could go through the Ordeal during one of those times even if your troop camped at Bartle. The Lodge is growing in numbers by leaps and bounds since many of the Missouri Troops are taking advantage of this program. I have seen a positive reaction to this on the part of the kids because the age and rank requirements are lower for OA than MOS so they have a chance to participate in something "extra" earlier in their Scouting experience. For a guy like me who grew up in MOS and was very, very active in it when I worked on camp staff in the '70s, going through the Ordeal now as an adult, was a new revelation for me, and I look forward to doing the Brotherhood process in the near future. Having come of age during the merger time, I can attest to the fact that there was quite a bit of friction from the factions on both sides of the state line, but it has worked out very well in the long run. OK...this took a little longer than a minute!!...but if you have any more questions I'd be glad to reply.

WAKWIB

I got into the printing business right after college and have been at it for over 20 years. Currently working for a large yearbook company.

The first printing co. I worked for, well... the interview was really interesting 'cause the boss was a Scouter (a surprise to me) and he was simply delighted with the fact that most of my previous work experience had been the 6 summers I worked at Scout camp. 75% of the interview time was spent talking about Scouting. I have often mentioned to my son and other Scouts in the troop, that your experience with Scouting may very well open doors for you in the future.

Guess I'm somewhat a geezer.

Joined the Boy Scouts in 1971, and attained the rank of Eagle in 1977.

Served as ASPL, QM, and JASM. Worked on the staff of the great H. Roe Bartle Scout Reservation for 6 summers. Participated in a Philmont trek in '77....would love to do that again!!

Was called into the Tribe of Mic-O-Say, our local honor camper society in 1975, and became a member of the Tribal Council in 1981.

Fast Forward to 2000. Son #1 joined a Scout Troop, and I jumped on board as well. I am registered as an ASM. I and another gentleman serve as Life-to-Eagle coodinators (with 15 boys in the troop at Life rank it gives us plenty to do). I also serve as a Citizenship in the World Merit Badge counselor. I have also rekindled my involvement with Mic-O-Say.

At the request of the Order of the Arrow members in our troop, I will be going through the Ordeal next weekend at the "other" council camp-Theodore Naish Scout Reservation. I am looking forward to that!!

Some personal Scouting goals of mine are to be Wood Badge Trained, serve on the camp staff again, attend a National Jamboree, return to Philmont, and also do Northern Tier and Sea Base. I anticipate being involved in Scouting at the Troop level for many years, and may someday get involved at the District or Council committee level.

Its Me sez "Certainly BSA cannot be all things to all boys. So then we can assume that not all boys qualify. What are the qualities BSA is looking?"

We cannot "assume" that at all. BSA is not looking for certain qualities. It is a program designed to instill qualities through proven methods.

The success or failure (and that's a pretty ambiguous concept in itself) will come about through factors that are often not inherent in the child's personality. The two main factors that would determine that are 1) parents support of the child and the Pack/Troop. 2)The manner in which the Pack/Troop delivers the program.

If the parents are interested in the BSA program-a boy will join. If we as leaders deliver the right kind of program and earn the parent's support he will likely stay and "succeed" regardless of his personality. And as other posts on this thread have described, it is amazing to see how Scouting helps to shape all kinds of personalities.

When I went to National Camping School many, many moons ago, there were folks of all sizes, shapes, colors, and ages in attendance. Sounds like a great opportunity to me. Hope you have a great time.

Scouting is HUGE in the Kansas City area. Our council covers a large area in both Missouri and Kansas. We have a mix of urban, suburban and rural demographics. It has been strong here from the start, and enjoys good support from the community.

CubsRgr8:

Congrats to your son....and, YES be very proud. I hope he completes the process. I know that becoming an Ordeal member of the Order gave my son the confidence to step up his leadership in his troop. Just a month after becoming an Arrowman, he decided to run for SPL. Although neither him or myself expected him to be elected to that position, he won by a landslide. I think your son will also be motivated to greater service and leadership as a result of going through the OA program.