vol_scouter

Presumably to help clarify: 2) as to “automatically removed,” was there comment on notifying law enforcement?;

@ThenNow Remember, people can be removed for many actions. Perhaps a volunteer cursed at a Scout or showed very poor judgment or invited a few boys to his pool. Those people could be kicked out but would not have done something to involve the police. There are reporting guidelines for involving child protective services and the police where a child as made an accusation, where a volunteer has witnessed an action, and a long list of similar things. Mandatory reporting requirements for professionals and volunteers began, if my memory is working, in the 1990's. States began requiring non-pr

The answer is yes. Also, the person may never be allowed back in Scouting even if the case had little evidence and was not pursued by authorities. A close friend served on a committee reviewing appeals by people who felt that they were wrongly removed from Scouting. He told me that the process required the Scout Executive in the council to make a recommendation to reinstate along with a volunteer committee from the council also making that recommendation. The appeal is reviewed at the national council and if they think that it is reasonable, it goes to a regional committee. The regional c

It is important to remember that in the Ineligible volunteer files were actions taken by Scouting without the person having much input. If someone was accused of a bad act, in whatever category, the person could be ejected. There is no right to be a volunteer in Scouting and it is a private organization so it can decide who is a registered member. So there are people who have been removed from Scouting for various reasons who did nothing wrong. They had no hearing, no review of evidence, no fairness in the proceedings. The people may have fought it or appealed without success. Their name

If a new RSA were to be proposed that requested a larger contribution from the councils, the Ad Hoc committee would have a meeting with representatives of all the councils where they would present analysis of the new RSA. At that point, it could be rejected or taken to the individual local council executive committees. If the executive committees pass it, then it goes to the full board for approval. There are minimal time requirements to call a executive committee meeting that are usually a few days. Then minimal notification time requirements to call a full board meeting. So the pr

If there was good evidence or an adult witness, true. In the 1960's, psychologists would say that child had been abused and had repressed memories. The children and psychologists were often said to be making it all up. The debates raged for a number of years until it became accepted that children would usually repress the memories of child sexual abuse. Often children were accused of seducing the almost always male perpetrator. As a youth, I read the newspaper from front to back most days. These cases were of interest to me since the children were often not terribly different in age than

Please understand that in the 1960's and, I presume before, reports of child abuse where oftentimes blamed on the child and not the abuser - seems impossible now. Also, if one referred a case to the police and there was no conviction, there was the possibility of the council being sued for slander. Protection for reporters was not common until the late 1980's and mandatory reporting was not common until the 1990's. The world has changed in many ways since the 1950's when I was born. In many ways, the USA is very different in very many ways. This is just to say that the local councils

I remember when that was the law. Rape, child abuse, and murder could be punished by the death penalty in my state. It resulted in less reporting from what we understand presumably because of the stiff penalties. This is just to say that there can be ramifications to stiffer penalties. Additionally, the removal of SOL has other ramifications. I earned my Eagle in the late 1960's. If I claimed abuse during that time, there are none of the adults to support or refute my claims as they are all dead. It becomes more difficult to find justice. This is not to say that extending the SOL i

Michael Johnson was hired after serving as a detective investigating child abuse cases in Fort Worth. I think he said a 20 year career so he is exactly who you wanted.

So questions to the legal folk. The BSA solely has made policy for youth protection. Local councils were expected to follow national promulgated policies. In the past, the local and national council would be sued together and the insurance would be held by the national council. So questions: 1. If the BSA has been liquidated, could not the councils say that they followed national policies that they had no role in making so they should not be liable for a national policy failure? 2. If the BSA has been liquidated, the local councils will not have access to the insurance compani

If we cannot instill character in the program then it is no longer Scouting. Unlike you appear to be, I am confident that outside experts and experienced volunteers can modify programs to make a safe environment.

Yes, it can be tough to find that balance but it can be achieved. Victor Vieth who was part of the press conference has been very helpful in being strict with policies to protect children while preserving the vital program elements.

So one day we had a conversation of why there should even be an outdoor program as it would be easier to protect children in just weekly meetings. So we should have just ditched the outdoor program? No, we needed to improve our methods to protect children in the activities.

As you to which you allude, it was a stupid decision. He should have been one of the very last to go before turning off the lights for the final time.

QUIT ATTRIBUTING WORDS TO ME THAT I DID NOT SAY!!! He did a fine job with Youth Protection and was a champion. In my discussions with him, he did not understand that the experiences in the Scouts BSA program were to build character so he had difficulty in understanding what elements needed to be retained with a new way to protect youth rather than cutting it. It is not an excuse. I was the one advocating external academic researchers to continuously study the program. I agree with outside observers and did not say otherwise. You do not have the only valid viewpoint.

An interesting tidbit is that at least for me, the concept that the BSA is a leader in youth protection came directly from Michael Johnson. This comment is not to discredit him or cast aspersions but to rather source my information. I suspect that all who have said such things have gotten their information directly or indirectly from Michael. He is a nice fellow who really cares about children but never seemed to really understand Scouting.

It is interesting that MJ believed that he worked for Scouts BSA instead of the Boy Scouts of America. He did not know that Scouts BSA is the name of a program. Does not discredit him but does make one wonder how well he understood the programs.

I would think that you are correct if what Michael Johnson has to say is as salacious as the advertisement alludes. The insurance companies could say that the BSA acted in a manner that violated the terms of the policies thus removing their obligations to cover the cases. This is starting to look increasingly more likely that the BSA will have to convert to a Chapter 7 with the local councils following suit with their own Chapter 11 or 7. The insurors will say that they are not longer liable and most of the churches have little. It does not seem to me that this will gain much for the

I have posted the same information before but no one seems to heed the designations. It is important because the recidivism rate for pedophiles is near 100% which means that in general they cannot be rehabilitated and are very likely to commit the crimes again if released. Though such distinctions make little difference for the victims, it provides information as to which children are most vulnerable at the current time so that the appropriate modifications to youth protection can be made.

@CynicalScouter But as you said, the composition and activities of the committee will be court appointed so should be experts in the field who will be objective. Once again, not to report children being groomed or abused to the police and human resources in the state is immoral and reprehensible. The court appointed or defined and reviewed committee will get the best answers.

So you are advocating doing a survey that shows some children who are being abused and doing nothing? That is not only immoral but it is reprehensible. Any child found being groomed or abused needs to be identified and swift interventions must be done. My statement was that I support such studies but believe that they should be done in a moral, scientifically correct, and useful manner. You continually distort what I have said. What I am proposing will cost more so it is not what the BSA might prefer.

For surveys, interviews, or polling of the youth, their is a legal and ethical consideration that is being overlooked. If a child provides answers that they are being groomed or abused to include answers indicative of such behaviors, there are requirements from an Institutional Review Board perspective that the name of the child must be submitted to protect that child. This need precludes anonymous data collection. This further complicates data collection and interpretation. I certainly support being proactive in looking for children that are being groomed or abused but it is not so simple

@CynicalScouter If this was not a Scout forum I would be saying very un-Courteous and un-Kind things to you. Anytime someone defends the BSA you take it to you do not want to compensate them at all or you wish to deny them of council. Quit making up garbage!

@ThenNow My sincere apology for any discomfort as it was not meant to do so. It was certainly not to be demeaning or invalidating. It is time for me to exit this discussion and I will endeavor to do so.

@HelpfulTracks Well said. There are many times more stories such as yours for every victim.