VentureScoutNY

How about Arthur R. Eldred of Oceanside, New York. The first Eagle Scout in the United States. After earning Eagle Scout he saved a fellow scouts life from drowning if I remember correctly. He later served as a SE. Also at his Board of Review he had Daniel C. Beard, Earnest T. Seaton, and Jame E. West. And I thought I was nervous for my board!!

Today, I declared my new Major Public and Professional Communication, with my goal becoming a Professional Scouter. I had a meeting with my advisor and she said and I quote "Remind me again, you wanted to be the Boy Scout Leader, right?" With some discontent I explained what I wanted to be to clear things up. I guess she does not adivse a large number of students wishing to be Pro Scouters.

For all of you Professional Scouters out there:

What was your Major in College?

What degree looked best when you were hired?

What Major do you think helped you most in preparing you for being a Pro Scouter?

Well, not a true Historical Figure, more of a superhero, but I vote Indiana Jones! He did make it to the Life rank, and has great knowledge of the Outdoors. He seems to pack light, and is always in a outfit similiar to the Scout uniform. He's got his expedition hat already. He is Brave, and is pretty worldly. He would be the ideal Scoutmaster.

When it comes to Historical Figures. I'll brag a little since this is my local Council

Theodore Roosevelt

"Theodore Roosevelt was no longer President of the United States when the Boy Scouts of America was started in 1910. But he was an ardent booster of the organization. He was a troop committeeman of Troop 39, Oyster Bay, N.Y., and first council commissioner of Nassau County Council. As a former President he was elected an Honorary Vice-President of the Boy Scouts of America. He was the first and only man designated as the "Chief Scout Citizen." For many years after his death in 1919, several thousand Scouts and leaders in the New York area made annual pilgrimages to his grave in Oyster Bay.

Teddy was a very vocal supporter of Scouting. Early Scout Julian Salomon said, "The two things that gave Scouting great impetus and made it very popular were the uniform and Teddy Roosevelt's jingoism."

The National Council, Boy Scouts of America, chartered the Nassau County Council, Boy Scouts of America in 1917. In September 1997, the council changed its name from the Nassau County Council to recognize and honor Theodore Roosevelt, its founder and first Council Commissioner.

In a letter to a Scout executive published in the first U.S. Boy Scout handbook, Roosevelt wrote,

The movement is one for efficiency and patriotism. It does not try to make soldiers of Boy Scouts but to make boys who will turn out as men to be fine citizens and who will, if their country needs them, make better soldiers for having been Scouts.

No man is a good citizen unless he so acts as to show that he actually uses the Ten Commandments and translates the Golden Rule into his life conduct and I don't mean by this in exceptional cases under spectacular circumstances, but I mean applying the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule in the ordinary affairs of every-day life. I hope the Boy Scouts will practice truth and square dealing and courage and honesty. The man who counts and the boy who counts are the man and boy who steadily endeavor to build up, to improve, to better living conditions everywhere and all about them.

The same qualities that mean success or failure to the nation as a whole mean success or failure in men and boys individually. To be helpless, self-indulgent, or wasteful will turn the boy into a mighty poor kind of man just as the indulgence in such vices by the men of a nation means the ruin of a nation. Any boy is worth nothing if he has not got courage, courage to stand up against the forces of evil and courage to stand up in the right path. Let him be unselfish and gentle, as well as strong and brave. It should be a matter of pride to him that he is not afraid of anyone and that he scorns not to be gentle and considerate to everyone, especially to those who are weaker than he is. If he doesn't treat his mother and sisters well, then he is a poor creature no matter what else he does; just as a man who doesn't treat his wife well is a poor kind of citizen no matter what his other qualities may be. Let the boy remember he must have knowledge, he must cultivate a sound body and a good mind and train himself so that he can act with quick decision in any crisis that may arise. Mind, eye, muscle all must be trained so that the boy can master himself and thereby learn to master his fate."

http://www.sossi.org/scouters/roosevelt.htm

What ever happend to Scout Spirit?

What happned to Doing a Good Turn Daily?

In my opinion, if the Scout was "volunteering" at a Cub Scout Camp he should not recieve service hours.

A Boy Scout needs to have his service project reviewed by his SM before he does anything. If he is approved than he can earn his service hours.

This scout though, was volunteering to help others. Volunteer according to Websters Dictionary is -to enter into any service of one's own free will or without being asked-.

I consider what this Scout did was a perfect example of Scout Spirit. Helping others without reward to himself.

Can one wear a Campaign Hat with a Venturing Uniform?

Bob, I like your Perfect Troop analysis. But that is the optimistic view of it, that does not work in scouts leaving for personal reasons and less than 3 scouts coming in every year due to the other Troops in the town that also have good programs.

But that is they way a Troop should work, if it is providing the full scouting program.

FOG, A lack of motivation to fundraise was common in my former Troop as well. Why go out and fundraise, when Mom or Dad will pay?

Fundrasing helps the Troop as a whole, but depending on your Troop, can help the Individual Scout as well. If a Scout wants to fundraise, and is willing to fundraise all the power to him. He will prosper in his own right, and the Scout that does not fundraise will not. If his parents want to pay for him let them, it's their money. Obviously we want to teach Scouts to be Thrifty, but there is only so far you can go.

When I fundraised, sure there were some kids that did not, and when it came time for camp, my dues were paid, and theirs was not. You can only worry about so many people.

Playing Devils advocate to what I just said though... We know how what one scout does another is not far behind him. If one scout does not fundraise, it wont be long until others will not want to as well, creating an even bigger problem.

Maybe a talk to the parents and scouts about the goals of fundraising would not be such a bad idea?

Cutting 200 pages from the current handbook is no big achievement. It leaves Scouts at a disadvantage. I would prefer the information rather than the book telling me where else to go to find the info, that doesn't help when you are in the field. If you want to study deeper in the subject more power to you, but I'm talking about when you need info on the spot.

Most scouts own their 1 handbook and thats it. A mother is not going to go out and buy the fieldbook for her new scout that may not even stay in the Troop... So this new scout brings his handbook with him into the field with the lack of good info in it.

I will carry the extra pound in my pack when you think about how much that extra pound can turn knowledge into action.

Scouts in Action, doing a good turn. Thanks for sharing!

I understand where Proud Eagle is coming from. I also was unable to fully take part in leadership roles due to the small numbers in the Troop.

But Professionals set goals, and those goals include starting more Units. Is it all about numbers when it comes down to it in the professionals job?

I agree that nurtering a Troop and ensuring it to have the full program is better than starting more untis. Especially when those new units may all have small numbers and may all have dicciculty putting on the full program.

So what is a proffesional to do in this situation? Start more units? Whos job is it, beside the Unit Leader to make sure a Troop is running the proper program?

(100th post, I'm becoming an addict)

I put this in a post from another thread, and wanted to follow up on it.

For those of you who were scouts during the Uniform change, from green to kahaki... Did you all buy new Uniforms, or trade in uniforms, or insignia?

How long after the Uniform change did it take for the Kahkai to be in regualr Circulation?

My First Troop when I joined had about 30 active scouts in it. By the Time I became the SPL we had 12 registered Scouts in our Troop. 8 or 9 active Scouts that attended meetings. Our SM was a corpse for lack of better words. When I became SPL I introduced The Patrol Method to the Troop. Before this, there was NO PLC. Meetings and campouts were planned by the adults. Maybe this was because the Troop started in 1991 with 5 New Scouts and 3 Veteran Scout Leaders. So from around 91-95, when I entered the Troop, thats how it was run. And it worked, although it took much power from the scouts and left it to the hands of the leaders.

The Scoutmaster a great man, and my role model for many years ran the troop this way. To be honest, no one knew any other way to run it. Leadership positions were still carried out, Patrol Meetings were attended. But overall control of the Troop was not in the PLC, since there really was not one.

When I became SPL the Scoutmaster had been retired for a year. The new SM was no better than a dying cat. By the time I was SPL I realized the Troop was not run correctly, and tried to change it. I introduced The Patrol Method, and after a few months it started working. The PLC met regularly, and we planned our trips, meetings etc... But it was difficult doe to the fact I had 9 scouts to work with. Activites were limited, due to a lack of attendance. But we finally started planning good trips etc... My last great hoorah in the Troop led to a Grand trip to the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia, Camp Powatan. We signed up for the 50 miler trek. TO make a Long Story short, an adult was injured on the Trek far from Base camp. The other leaders( well leader was their official title, they had no skills to lead anything) felt it was more important to make the next activity than to let the slow injured adult set the paceand stay together. BTW the injured adult was the adult in charge of the trip and I was the SPL in charge of Scouts, around 6 of them.

This led to a hospital visit, and 2 certificates of Merit being given to myslef and my fellow scout for staying with the injured adult, and many of us transfering to a new troop.

Anway that was a long tangent, sorry. In my area there are many troops, some with 50+ scouts in it. Small Troops are limited to the things they can do. Large troops also have their drawbacks...

It really depends on the quality of the people you are involved with who can make or break a Troop.

FOG, to my understanding, and I may be wrong, but I have always been under the impression that you can NOT wear new Insignia with an older uniform. If you wear a complete old uniform the insgnia on it must also be from that time period. My former Scoutmaster wears a Vintage uniform, with all vintage insignia, which he is always on an endless search for. Is insignia not a uniform item?

NJCubScouter, officially I do not think that a scout can wear older patches with the current uniform. But again, we need to find an official source to be sure.

FOG, I would assume that scout would need to attain a new first class badge. ..

For those of you who were scouts during the Uniform change, from green to kahaki... Did you all buy new Uniforms, or trade in uniforms, or insignia?

How long after the Uniform change did it take for the Kahkai to be in regualr Circulation?

"Did you know that in a couple places in the Cub Scout Leader Handbook it says that if you are are not going to wear the entire uniform it would be better to not wear the uniform at all?" Bob White

No Bob, I am not familiar with that. Is that true also in the Boy Scout Leader Handbooks? If not, why is that only for cubs, and not boy scouts? Interesting

FOG I don't understand either. "Looking nice" is a far cry of todays youth. Since I am 19, I have to deal with my age group ALL the time, especially here living in a dorm. You couldn't imagine some of the things my peers will walk out in. Bright orange outfits, with matching shoes, with the laces untied. Pants past ones waist...way past ones waist. How they can run I do not know. They walk around with their hands on the waist of their pants holding them up. Why don't you just wear pants that fit? I dont get it.

The best is how weather and temperature has no meaning to many of my peers. Shorts in New England in the dead of winter... Sweat pants when its raining out, or snowing with 2 feet on the ground. Im surprised more people don't get hypothermia walking from class to class.

Is it the parents fault? Or the Medias? I ask my roomate why he wears the waist of his pants lower than his behind, and he says "its ill" ( ill is the new word for cool). So basically since I wear clothes that fit, I am uncool...

I think todays youth sees so much unconformity on television and from the current popular music stars, that they feel it is normal. That's why they really don't see why or how a Uniform Shirt looks so horrible with bright colored basketball shorts. We don't live in a overly Uniformed society anymore.

Can official Boy Scout Spats/leggings still be worn with the current Uniform? I know from Mike Waltons site( http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/hats.htm ), things like hats and neckerchiefs can still be worn.

But what about spats? I have a few pairs (dug out of an old chest from my grandmothers house) and did wear them camping years ago with my uniform. Most of the scouts had no idea what were around my ankles! My SM gave me time at a meeting to explain them; when they were worn, by whom etc...

Anyway, can they still be worn?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Full White Uniform for sea scouts once included white spats, do they still?

And how about this...Gray spats for Venturers, to match the pants! I thought those white spats mathcing the white explorer belts looked spiffy!

What I don't understand, is people wish to display their bagdes but are unable to in most situations to do it in an orderly official fashion.

Since there is no Offical BSA jacket that allows you to display your patches, people put their BSA patches on non BSA Jackets and Vests. Is that any better that wearing the BSA Red Wool Jac-shirt with patches all over it in a neat organized fashion?

I have a Red Wool Jac-Shirt handed down to me through family. It has patches dating back to the 1950's on it. It also displays patches I have recieved on it. Its a timeless family heirloom to me. So should I wear it? Well no, not really. Because it is officially incorrect to wear all those patches on it. So that instead, am I supposed to wear a non BSA Jacket or Vest, put patches on it, and wear it with my Official Uniform. SO now I am still doing the Wrong thing "officially" and also not setting the right example...

Im in TOTAL confusion. The safe way to go is put them all in a book and be happy and humble with all your patches.

Thoughts?

Interesting. That is sad that had to happen. Where exactly was the ballot box and who was in charge of it? The only advice I would give is to keep the ballot box at a specific table where adults can oversee who is putting what in the box.

I too would want to discuss this with both the scout and the parents. Keep us updated on what happens.

I was just curious if any of you know where Scouting is most Popular in the country? Is it strongest in rural or surbaban areas? Or Cities? Weakest?

Also when it comes to programs like Sea Scouts, Venturing,Varsity, where have they been most popular? Least popular?

Congratulations to your son!! He should be proud!

The webiste is

http://www.oa-bsa.org/

Sounds like a great idea with the 3 program method. But if they only come together for opening and closing, how to the older boys get to know and teach their skills to the younger guys? Or do they not want to? I notice in my Troop that sometimes the older guys don't want to have much to do with the younger ones. Mainly because they feel dragged down by them. That's why for reasons of keeping them involved, that they are in the Venture Patrol, to do bigger activities.

On campouts will the Troop camp together or will it be by Patrol? In our Troop, the Troop camps together on one site, but the Patrols do some of their activities separately like cooking etc... Hikes are sometimes a Troop activity, and sometimes a Patrol activity.

Goodluck though! Keep us posted on what follows.

Well Bob, I am a Collector. I have used the Yucca pack on many campouts. I wouldn't say they are a bad pack. If they get soaking wet, yea than your cheerfullness might be hard to keep up. But when it rained i had a trusty garbage bag I through over it and problem solved. But true, compared to many of todays products it's not a full proof pack.. But we are talking about scouting stuff and I was not comparing it to todays items-"I know there are many things from scouting's past that should still be available today." thread creator. SO thats why I said the packs.

Since I also collect Uniforms from the past I have worn a few on certain Occasion, and the material and fit are different from todays uniform in my opinion. To me, it seems like the shirts had a little more room to move in than todays. Maybe I'm worng who knows, again this was just my observation.

"old methods of cooking. Back when scouts did not have stoves and propane" The fuel is correct, thats what I meant when I said propane. New methods today include cooking on propane stoves. Not for everyone but I have seen it done.

Sorry, didn't make the 4 wall tent clear! 3 wall tent one doorway in front

I do agree Bob, that many items today are better. Especially all of those new fibers and fabrics available for gear.

But were the items really cheaper than today? I would say they were as relative as todays prices are to equipment. In scoutings history hats could be bought for less than $2. That's cheaper than today, but on the other hand the current prices of todays equipment are relative to todays incomes etc...Inflation..gotta love it!

Wished they still made:

-Overseas hat, stylish, not practicle though

-Softer Campaign hats from the good old days. much more comfortable than todays. They should make them mandatory and mass produce them to make them cheaper..im dreaming though.

-The old Uniforms, like we have heard and discussed in other threads, they were more durable, comfortable, and practicle.

-Canvas Yucca Backbacks, for lightweight campers a great pack. When your pack is not a huge frame pack you tend to bring just the basics with you.

-not officialy scout tents, but those old 4 wall canvas tents. The big heavy ones with the aluminum poles. Its a great tent for winter camping. Heres a link to what im talking about i forget the name of this tent. Morssan tents i think...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2794885893&category=36119

-old methods of cooking. Back when scouts did not have stoves and propane.

Thats about all for now off the top of my head. I'm interested to see what kind of responses come out of this thread,good topic!

Scout shorts are a great part of the Uniform today here in the US seb. Although just like the pants, I wish the shorts were more practicle and had pockets that could fit more than your extra change. In my area there is little uniformity with the shorts though. In the summer months some scouts will wear pants and some shorts. So the scouts usually look different. But I don't believe in telling scouts they must wear shorts. I for one usually always wear scout pants even in the summer.

Exactly right FOG

"Maybe the problem is that Scouting has lost its importance to many because there is too much emphasis on badges and not enough on growing into a man"

Many scouts, all they are interested in is earning badges and in my opinion the program to them has become very competitive. Not that competition is a bad thing, it can be used positivly between patrols etc... But individual competition in some ways can hurt.

Scouting is working as a team, older scouts teaching and passing on skills to younger scouts. When it gets down to 1 scout agaisnt another scout competing who will earn the most badges the competition blurs the real meaning of earning something.