Trevorum

Since he was not released after being convicted, I assumed you meant eligible for membership while he was still free to wander around and spead his message of sedition against authority.

Semper, another great though experiment. I would assume that the anti-establishment, socially marginal, political dissident you describe would have been welcome in BSA because he believed in God (!) and was heterosexual. I'm not certain about the "Duty to Country" part though... Do you think he could get his dad to be a leader?

Prairie, Yes. They aren't called "conservatives" for nothing!

Acco says, "Scouting is a business." Alas, this is all too true. Would that it was different, but I feel that many BSA policy decisions are made primarily from a corporate perspective. On this issue specifically, I strongly suspect that BSA accountants have "run the numbers" and concluded that - at the present time - BSA membership (and hence, revenue) would suffer more from the loss of religiously conservative COs than would be gained by taking the moral high ground. Acco also points out that previously held "truths" about the human condition, such as the legitimacy of slavery, are

BW said, "The agnostic doesn't believe or disbelieve in God; the agnostic is unwilling to make a decision." Bob, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we had established earlier in this thread that agnostics merely feel that the existence of god is not proveable. This doesn't prevent them from believing in God, they just can't prove his/her existence. An analogy may help. Some people firmly believe we are alone in the universe (these are analogous to 'atheists'). Others fervently believe in the existence of intelligent life elsewhere in our galaxy, but can not prove such existence

...not for a long time, I hope. (and thanks for correcting my typo!)

Semper, Your theology has given you a solidly functional worldview and I know the scouts in your unit benefit from your leadership. In your imaginative thought experiment on another thread you suggested that the word "thoughtful" might replace "reverent", thus implying that there are people for whom the two concepts are interchangeable. I didn't reply there, but "humility" is closer to how I interpret "reverence". I feel that scouting should attempt no instruction in theology but should nonetheless teach humility in the face of that-which-is-greater-than-ourselves. Your name

Lynda, many people who feel as you do discover for themselves that they have been Pantheists all along without knowing it. You may enjoy http://www.pantheism.net/

Evmori offers us the nifty sound byte that homosexuality is a "lifestyle", implying that this biology is somehow chosen. (sigh) This may be a popular opinion, but it has no scientific basis. Homosexuality is no more a lifestyle than is being born female, or being born Asian, or being born hemophiliac, or being born albino. All of these chromosomal and hormonal conditions affect behavior, but we rarely hear about the "Albino lifestyle. For reasons I have never fully understood, western culture has evolved an antagonism to homosexuality. In other times and places, homosexuality has been acc

Vicki mentions Mahatma Gandhi and Mother Theresa as being great moral leaders of the modern world. We can not omit His Holiness, the Dali Lama.

I love thought experiments. Given Semper's scenario (unlikely though as he has outlined it), I would of course stay and try my hardest to help the movement weather the inevitable exodus of religious extremists. Something similar to this will happen sooner or later. BSA is on the wrong side of history and interpersonal ethics on these issues. BSA changes as does society, albeit somewhat more slowly. Did you know that, these days, even people without a Y chromosome are accepted as Scout leaders? (gasp!) How times do change... I think much more likely will be BSA giving chartering

Since sexuality has no place in scouting, I fail to see what difference an adults biology would make in his or her abilities to lead a unit. On the other hand, I shudder to think of a scout unit led by untrained adults. (But that wouldn't even be scouting, would it; it would just be a bunch of kids and adults who like to go camping now and then.)

EagerLeader said, "this is all a big fairy tale..." There are many fairy tales in this world, many mythologies, many belief systems. However, BSA does not define what constitutes belief in God or the practice of religion. Belief in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic theology/mythology is not required for BSA membership. In other words, you do NOT have to accept any one elses "fairy tale" to be a Scout. As I've said before, IMHO self-proclaimed atheists are intellectually lazy. It is very easy to identify what one does NOT believe in, but much more challenging to formulate what one D

Good News! Our Primordial Soup Kitchen Patrol has chosen a new name. They are now the "Fighting Amish"... (sigh)...

Torri, excellent points, both. I mentioned these to the SPL as topics for clarification at the PLC.

In another thread, good ol' Semper introduced the idea of a "Shoebox" campout. The idea for this "ultimate survival" campout is that the scouts bring everything for the weekend in one shoebox - food, shelter, everything except water. I mentioned this to our PLC last month and they were all over it! Because our May waterskiing had to be postponed to July, we had a calendar gap and they quickly voted to make May our Shoebox Campout. None of us have ever done this before, and so now I am asking for ideas and advice. What works and what doesn't? I'm a bit concerned (only a bit) a

Welcome, Winter! Your schedule may seem crazy, but trust me, you'll be glad you stayed active as a leader. One of the biggest regrets I have is my 29 year hiatus between my Eagle and my son beoming a Tiger. You seem to be wearing many different hats right now; my advice would be to see where you are needed most and do that job well. There will be lots of time for you to roll into the other fun challenges!

DadNow, Welcome to the forum. I, for one, appreciate your thoughtful contribution. IMHO, you have neatly nailed the issue.

153 countries have scouting organizations that are members of the World Organization of the Scout Movement (WOSM). Here's some trivia for you: Which one country has more scouts than the United States? http://www.scout.org/satw/links.shtml

I agree with Fred. While prayers are appropriate in many situations, including travel, within BSA situations I'm only aware of invocations before meals or special ceremonies (like CoHs) and of course, during observances on Sundays. Travel prayers can certainly be/become a unit tradition. Regardless, please remember to ensure that prayers are non-sectarian and are inclusive of all faiths that might be represented in your unit.

Torri, Just be glad they didn't choose "Primordial Soup Kitchen" .... (sigh)

Welcome to the forum, Jay! We look forward to your contributions. I've also had a long interest in Astronomy, going way back to when I was a member of the Orion Patrol. Our buddies were in the Hercules and Draco patrols. I echo what Trail Day says: you can teach to the age level of the candidate(s) but require no more or less than the letter of the requirements. This also goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway): make sure you follow YP guidelines. Never be alone with a scout - scouts should come to you in pairs at the very least.

Fred, unless work throws me a last-minute curve, I'll be there and I'm looking forward to meeting you!

So, an agnostic can believe in a higher power but at the same time admit that it is impossible to prove the existence of such?(This message has been edited by Trevorum)

I am so glad that BSA was way ahead of the social awareness curve with regards to youth protection(although I shudder to think what almost certainly transpired in scattered units way back before YP guidelines). This type of thing happens in all walks of life and we are no exception, unfortunately. As OakTree suggested, screening can't detect deeply hidden secrets. But properly followed, YP can ensure that this type of person never directly hurts any kids.