TNScoutTroop

Yep. Clearer, better and more comprehensive rules will go a LONG way toward solving the BSA's problems. It's nearly impossible to get adults, much less teens, to use informed judgment. If the BSA pros will just spell out EXACTLY what troops, leaders and Scouts should do in each and every situation, so many problems will be avoided. TN Scout Troop =;-)

For the record, we didn't say we had committed to refusing all transfers. We plan to caution people, in some detail, and probably discourage most transfers. But, we really haven't gotten that far yet. What we did, was pose a question, and a hypothetical response, if the answer to the question was negative: "What about a Scout who insists on transferring in, even after being discouraged: can we insist on some evidence of real skills? (If the answer here is "No!", we'll probably just refuse transfers altogether.)" This is all hypothetical, for now. We're just trying to work out h

'Mazzuca doesn't seem to care since in his own words,"Scouting is not about setting up tents or camping in the woods."' He said that?? Sheesh. Do you know where? TN Scout Troop

We've no interest in a dispute, but we can offer two observations. From our reading of older Scout literature, the idea that Scout badges indicate PRESENT skills seems to have been associated, in Hillcourt's, BP's, and other's minds, fundamentally with being prepared. In other words, it appears that in their minds, a Scout whose skills had lapsed was unprepared. Also, several of us learned at least some Scoutcraft and rescue skills long ago . . . and have found that we retained the ones we were willing to use. If you learn a skill, expecting that you will NOT use it . . . you p

Eagle92, you have our apologies for having hijacked the thread. The IOLS info you (and others) provided is invaluable, and where our immediate interest lies. TN Scout Troop

We're planning to work hard on actually using the skills we teach. That's why we're so excited about finding a camping location that is + close + free + free from cell signals + seemingly remote + relatively primitive + uncrowded + USFS, rather than NPS or TN Parks, so we can (judiciously) use Scout craft and pioneer skills Even the fact that the geology is such that the rocks are sharp is not all bad -- we'll emphasize watching your steps, and will work hard to avoid broken bones, but some minor first aid from minor to moderate rock cuts is not something we view as

Thanks for the links, JFL49. UCEagle72 has the exact quote. In my copy of the "Third Handbook for Scoutmasters", c. 1938, the quote is from Vol. 2, page 958, under a section headed "The Significance of the Badges". Regarding IOLS, we initially were told ALL training, including IOLS, needed to be renewed every two years. That has not been contradicted directly, but we were specifically told by the Council Training Head that the almost 2-year old IOLS certs held by 2 of us will continue to be valid. And just clear up: removal of badges is purely a unit function. We will not attemp

Thanks for the link, Eagle92 -- that's EXACTLY what we needed. We finally were able to turn in our official charter application last week, with 6 adults and 6 boys. We'll pick a few more boys Sunday, and a few more adults over the next month. Our first official Scout meeting is Monday, and our first official outing will be a Tennessee River boat ride with an old Sea Scouter, on the 23rd. Several of us spent the day scouting out a remote (but close) campsite that's FREE, uncrowded and in a dead zone for cell phones (YEAH!). It turned out to be even better than we hoped, and will almost cer

We're still working out our policies on that, but basically, all leaders will have to be approved by the church, and will in turn, have to approve of our goals. But, we already have volunteers working to help us, who are not part of the church. And, even though all the youth are currently from our church, not all of them are committed to the same things we are. There's already been interest expressed by neighbors and others not in the church, and we've made no secret at all about what we're seeking to so. For now, we are not inviting boys outside the church, but only so we can get e

We just chartered (finally!) our new troop, and BL was NOT, and will not be, included or even mentioned. The consensus is that BL is short on useful articles that are consistent with Scouting's goals, and long on ads for overpriced gear. We've concluded that, not only is it an unneeded expense, but that the advertising and editorial policy are actually in opposition to Scouting goals we wish to emphasize, such as thrift and being prepared to use what you have and can afford. Given the fact that many of our Scouts are from financially limited homes makes this issue critical. The fact

AHG has not quite embraced the approach CS Lewis called "mere Christianity", but they are close to it. From the conversations we've had with them, I don't think that there would be any difficulty for any (o)rthodox congregation ("o", not "O"), who holds to the beliefs found in the early church creeds. On the other hand, if "people of other faiths might feel even more uncomfortable", wouldn't that be sort of the point? AHG is specifically trying to be a girl's scouting organization for the sort of traditional Christians excluded by the GSUSA (or whatever acronym is correct). And, if

We're trying to do what some here have discussed: establish a Christian Scout troop side-by-side with a AHG girls group. Several statements have been made that seem to be incorrect, at least based on what we've been able to discover. + So far as we can determine, BSA is not NON-sectarian, but POLY-sectarian. The fact that many troops were in the past associated with what might be called "American Civic monotheism", along with the low profile most LDS units keep, has created the perception that a vague and nonspecific monotheism is the Scouting norm. But, this was never actually the case.

"Hell is a myth and Satan doesn't exist. Have a nice day." On being told that something similar had been placed on the tombstone of a recently deceased atheist who was a mutual acquaintance, CS Lewis remarked, "Bet he wishes that was so!"

Just noting, for the benefit of future readers of this thread, that it appears that the "test out" IOLS option, may not be documented anywhere that's currently accessible. Perhaps it was mentioned in some document that has since become unavailable, but no one has been able to help us with any current documentation of this option. TnScoutTroop

Just noting, for the benefit of future readers of this thread, that it appears that the "test out" IOLS option, may not be documented anywhere that's currently accessible. Perhaps it was mentioned in some document that has since become unavailable, but no one has been able to help us with any current documentation of this option. TnScoutTroop

Thanks OGE, but we've got that. We're gonna order the paper copy -- that PDF is hard to read -- and see if we can find the statement about testing out in a more legible copy. But, right now, we haven't been able to locate any specific mention of that option. Using that faded PDF you linked (numerous sites have copies, but all seem to be the same file, which is a low contract copy) means we may well have overlooked it, so we're hoping someone can help us zero in on the quote we need.

We've posted about this elsewhere, but we're trying to do our own 36 hour IOLS+, instead of the Council's 12 hour (really!) course which culminates in an attendance card certification. We thought we'd found gold, with the info that leaders could test for their IOLS card. Now, however, we've been told officially by Council that this is an idea National has kicked around but never adopted. From past experience we know that we are at a dead end unless we can cite chapter, verse, and page number, and supply a notarized Xerox. After scanning through the IOLS trainer's manual a couple of

OK, we're gonna conclude -- pending any more substantial comments -- that the purported "ego issue" with Scoutcraft training is just a red herring, thrown out for unknown reasons.

Guys, as interesting as it is, our question wasn't about the relationship between Patrols and skills, or even about management vs. Scoutcraft per se. Basementdweller wrote "I wonder out loud whether a Course of pure Woodcraft would be successful. I don't think it would because of egos." DesertRat77 agreed, and nobody seemed really to disagree. Our question is, why would Scout leader egos be MORE of an obstacle in a skill based WB or roll-your-own OLS+, than it is in the standard all White Stagged and EDGED-up version of those course? That's the part we're not getting.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but the observation that "egos" would make a Scout-craft focused Wood Badge unworkable was puzzling to us. It seemed that there was general agreement that this was true. But we don't see why "egos" would be more of a threat to a Scout-craft focused Wood Badge, than it is to the current management methods Wood Badge. However, none of us are beaded. Anyhow, since we're embarking on a roll-our-own IOLS training that's getting close to Wood Badge in length (2 full Saturdays + 2 Fri PM - Sun PM weekends) and that is focused on learning, and then teaching Scou

Very helpful. Posting mostly so we can save the whole thing. But, FWIW, if you can train your boys to like oatmeal, you can buy 50# of rolled oats for $1/lb or less. It will keep for months in a closed garbage bag in a closed garbage can.

Good points, Beavuh, about the difference between sons and other boys. But, so folks don't worry, we should explain a bit more. Regardless of NRA standards, we'll have some safety standards of our own. The most important is a 1:1 ratio between trained (adult or older Scout) and untrained shooters, with a trained shooter assigned to watch and help each untrained shooter. The second is limiting who is at the range, so we don't have Scouts standing around idle. Bored boys and guns don't mix well. Besides the private range, we'll often be camping near a Forest Service range with 4 rifl

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is Tennessee, and several of us are country boys. We grew up shooting. Our sons shoot. Our fathers shoot. We've all been teaching shooting, without the NRA's help. None of us ever hit anyone or anything by accident. As far as we know, no one we taught ever did, either. That's not to say that there aren't any idiot red-necks in Tennessee -- there are. But while we may be red-necks, we're not the idiot ones. If it was just a matter of being safe, we could handle that without the NRA. We realize that, in other parts of the country, guns are d

Follow-up, sorry. Just checking out the NRA site -- it looks like if you get NRA Rifle instructor ($240 - $300) you can do a $20 home test to get NRA Range Safety Officer. Is that combo sufficient to keep the BSA paper pushers happy?

Ok, guys. We've got someone (ex-military) looking into NRA certification, but this quote has got us puzzled: "All rifle shooting activities must be supervised by a currently NRA -certified Rifle Instructor and when on the range, must be supervised by a currently NRA-certified Range Safety Officer." Does this mean that if you and your boys are shooting someplace OTHER than a range, only an NRA Instructor is needed? We have access to some rather unique private property, within city limits, where it's legal and safe to shoot (so long as we control point of aim reasonably) but it's no