ThunderFox

BSA will pass on portrayals in film, video etc. to make sure Scouting is not shown in a negative way. They enforce it with threat of copyright infringement if they cannot get the degree of image control they require. I personally have some mixed emotions here but overall, I am thankful Scouting is protected from those who do not understand and could abuse the portrayal.

It is readily apparent that even when "Hollywood" has the best of intensions, they will sacrifice accuracy and image for the story they wish to portray. I would trust Spielberg to do it correctly with real advisors on board; but few others would.

Remember, we have many Scouters who ban the showing of "Follow Me Boys" because of all the rule violations evident in the movie such as only one leader etc. These folks evidently believe boys are not intelligent enough to understand, someone prior to viewing, explaining, "The film was made long ago and rules and society have changed, so enjoy the movie with that in mind."

I think we are due for a new Scouting movie that gets it all correctly portrayed AND inspires boys! (Hmmmm, maybe I write a book!)

Cheers,

Ol' Thunder Fox

Nettie welcome,

Unfortunately Nettie you will find in this program you will never cease to be astounded by the number of people who can read the very same manual or attend the very same training and have as many differing interpretations as those who read the book or took the training. Re-attending training and sampling these boards should help to verify what you think you know; I know it helps me.

I always told my Scouts to "Run The Twelve" when faced with decision.

1. Is it Helpful

2. Is it Friendly and run all 12.

At the end, if you have 12 yeses or maybe a few "not applicables" you are probably fine.

With adults I would add two more:

A. Is it in accord with BSA Policy and Rules?

B. Is it for the boys?

I think it is obvious too many adults get caught up with being in charge and abuse the position by imposing policies and rules that are personal preferences. The CM you spoke of needs a gut-check. If a polite one on one conversation aside from the others about what his duty actually is to the Pack does not change his attitude, a new leader is called for. He needs to understand that his personal preference is detracting from the life experiences of boys he is obligated to serve not dictate.

We as leaders need to understand we are guiding parts of lives and we need to be mindful of what is best for the boys we promised to serve.

Cheers

Ol' Thunder Fox

My belief is what I was taught someplace - Share Leadership (but do your job)

The following is published in our "Parents Handbook & Troop Committee Guide". It is shared with W2 parents when they visit as part of an Orientation and Q&A session.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

THE ADULT PATROL

"THE OLD TIMER PATROL"

PURPOSE:

1. Provide support to the troop program and the adult troop leaders.

2. Be a positive adult role model. Boys copy adults with whom they are close; the "Old Timer Patrol" can be an important influence for good in a boy's life.

GUIDELINES:

A. Set the example. When camping, being clean and properly dressed, helping with the camp chores, keeping your gear in good order and maintaining a cheerful outlook can have more influence on a boy than you can imagine.

B. All negative behavior such as profanity, obscene, ethnic, sexist or racist jokes, possession or consumption of alcoholic beverages is not allowed. Smoking, Dipping and chewing of tobacco is prohibited by boys and adults.

C. Liquid fuels are not allowed for fire starting by Scout or Adult.

D. Let the Scouts learn by doing it themselves; don't do it for them just because you know how or you can do it better. If they are bogged down, give them a timely suggestion offered in the form of a question. This will give them a hint toward the solution but still require them to think through to the problem's solution.

D. Except for short friendly visits, stay out of the patrol campsites, especially your son's campsite. When you visit, be sure to ask permission to enter their camp (we expect this same courtesy of them).

E. At troop activities, refrain from any disciplinary action toward your son, the troop and his patrol have rules and they will deal with him ,if needed. If you must have words with your son or any other boy, remember that except for dire circumstances, we praise in public and criticize in private. Plan ahead, have another Scouter have words with your son and you return the favor with his son. Ask yourself, were I not here, would what he did cause a Scoutmaster phone call to you at home? If not and you jump his case, he may lose interest in Scouts.

F. The Scouts have an open invitation to the adult campsite. We welcome their company in short amounts, but sometimes, when their stay is overly long, they need to be reminded there is a schedule of activities they are missing or they probably have patrol duties they need to fulfill. Some Scouts will, on occasion, use a visit to the adult campsite to get out of their patrol duties, especially if it is his turn to wash dishes.

G. Be a Friend. Give praise and compliments for jobs well done and even praise the good parts of jobs not so well done and encourage them to do better for their own satisfaction. To prove to themselves that they can do it.

F. Remember the Senior Patrol Leader is in charge, if there is a problem discuss it with him (discuss politely not tell) and the Scoutmaster; the SPL or the PLC will handle it. Do not engage the SPL in a long discussion about a personal concern, talk to the Scoutmaster to get the explanation you need. If there is serious

danger to life or limb, assume the role of a guardian/parent.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Our Troop Committee policy is that if you are going to be active you are welcome but you need to get trained as soon as possible. This is because there is the right way to things, many wrong ways to do things and, most importantly, there is a Scout Way to do things. The Scout was has to do with doing it one step at a time in a long drawn out process that virtually assures that any boy can understand it, learn it and benefit from it. We do not want to circumvent any learning experisnces.

Cheers,

Ol' Thunder Fox

I can only speak to my belief about creating patrols.

DO NOT DO IT!!!! DO NOT DO IT!!!! DO NOT DO IT!!!

As SM, I would discuss the need for membership accomodation with the SPL. I would explain that we had XX numbers of Webelos coming and remind him what size patrol our troop seemed to be comfortable with. I would explain that the troop has voted every six months that new Scouts would always be blended into existing patrols or into new patrols with 3 or 4 experienced Scouts who volunteered to mentor the new ones.

Then the SPL would put this before the PLC and under his wise counsel, the Scouts would do as they saw fit. If they were right, great! If they were wrong, when they figured it out, they fixed it.

This method always worked for us.

Cheers,

Ol' Thunder Fox

Materials,

My personal preference is natural and weatherproof while it is sized to be comfortable for the smallest Scout in the patrol to be able to proudly carry it along with his gear.

I like a slender, sturdy forked branch with a lashed crossbar at the top suspending a small leather banner. Designs "woodburned" into the leather and highlighted with leather dyes are long lasting and weatherproof. The fabrication should be a group effort by the patrol members with only adult info when asked.

IMHO Cheers,

Ol' Thunder Fox

One thing about patrol flags the always seems be left out of discussions is validity.

We humans are usually practical, sometimes even overly pratical. Young folks are no different. If they have no reason to carry a patrol flag and take care of it, they will soon leave it and home and lose it.

The patrol flag is a symbol for the boys to rally around and it is a bonding tool. We as adults need to provide the additional relevance they need to make their flag meaningful and have validity.

One of the tools we use is RECOGNITION. Patrol competitions call for recognition. We use blue, red and yellow feathers with leather loops prepared as for warbonnet mounting. 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place awards by color for patrol competition results. Gee, its funny how those feathers automatically migrate to the patrol flags.

Baden-Powell taught us that recognition should be of no real value and the accomplisment itself held the value.

Cheers,

Ol' Thunder Fox

I thought I would share our troop's rules, both sets.

APPENDIX ITEM "A-3"

TROOP CODE OF CONDUCT

Troop ___, as all troops should, operates by the Scout Oath and Law. Because we function under this precept, each and every Scout should expect Scout-like behavior of all his brother troop members. The Patrol Leaders' Council is responsible for discipline and Scouts' Honor.

There are two groups of specific rules and are published here so each Scout and his parents may know what is to be part of a young man's behavior and what is not. The first group of rules were made by the adults for the health and safety of the boys or to align with official BSA policies. The second group of rules were made by the Scouts and will be enforced by the Patrol Leaders' Council (PLC). Scouts will be given the opportunity to explain their conduct to their peers of the PLC.

GROUP A, Adult area of responsibility

1. The Scoutmaster or Leader in charge is responsible for each and every boy's safety and he must be obeyed.

2. Four adult leaders, minimum, two of whom have successfully completed BSA Basic Scout Leader Training will be present at all outings or activities.

3. The wearing of military or para-military clothing at scouting activities is a violation of National BSA policy and will not be allowed. This is a ban on "camo" clothing.

4. ALL Scouts riding in vehicles will wear seat belts.

5. ALL drivers transporting scouts will carry adequate liability insurance as set out in current BSA guidelines.

6. No Scout may ride in a vehicle with a driver under 21 years of age without written parental consent verified by the adult Leader in charge.

7. Annual notarized permission slips w/ release for leaders to seek medical treatment in the event parent/guardian cannot be reached, must be completed by parent/guardian for their Scout to participate in normal troop camping and outdoor activities. Additional permission slips may be requested for special activities or events.

8. Parent/guardian will complete a medical statement of allergies, habits, conditions, medication required or any other vital information an adult leader needs to protect the scout's mental, physical or emotional well-being.

9. Cell phones may be carried turned off by First Class Scouts and above. They may be used, when prudent, in emergency situations when not in violation of Camp Policies. Using game, texting or Internet functions are reasons for confiscation and a ban on future ability to carry a phone at troop functions.

10. NO Sheath knives, radios, "Ipods", electronic games etc.

11. Liquid fuels or liquid fire starters will not be used by boys or adults to start wood or charcoal fires.

12. Stoves or lanterns requiring liquid fuel will be filled, lit and turned off by an adult or an older Scout who holds the backpacking merit badge as taught in this Troop.

13. At no time will any liquid fuel be allowed in any boy patrol campsite.

14. Trees, living or dead, will not be downed or chopped upon without the Scoutmaster's permission.

15. Fires are for cooking, illumination and warmth. There will be NO playing with, in or around fire.

16. No Scout will carry or use a knife, axe or saw in camp until he has had the proper Scout training and has been issued a "Tote' n Chip" card by the Scoutmaster.

17. Parents will provide leaders with phone numbers of next of kin or responsible party who should be contacted if they will be unavailable during an outing.

The troop committee has adopted these rules in the best interest of the troop and particularly the individual Scouts.

Any Scout who willfully violates these rules or will not cease his negative behavior will have his parents called at that moment regardless of location or time, day or night, to come retrieve their son.

GROUP B, Boy Scouts' Area of Responsibility:

1. Discipline and rules are determined by the Patrol Leaders' Council; any Scout with:

a Scout oriented problem he can't work out in his patrol has the right to speak before the Council.

2. Patrols shall submit menus to the SPL for approval two troop meetings before the campout. One troop meeting prior, food costs and other expenses will have been determined so individual Scout's share of money may be collected at the troop meeting prior to the outing or the patrol may not go.

3. Campouts will run according to the patrol method and have programs planned by the PLC, ready for implementation or the outing is cancelled.

4. A Scout improperly dressed for a board of review or behind in his dues cannot be approved for rank advancement.

5. A Scout being reviewed for First Class Rank or higher must appear in full Class "A" uniform (formal or travel).

6. It is presumed that any boy who has been a Scout for a year will have had adequate time to earn money to purchase the balance of his complete Scout uniform.

7. Any Scout two months or more behind in his dues shall be considered "not in good standing" and as such shall not:

Vote

Camp with troop or patrol

Attend field trips or hikes

Advance in rank

7. Any Scout not attending a troop or patrol activity (exclusive of camp-outs) for six weeks shall be considered "inactive" unless he works out an arrangement with his patrol and informs the PLC. An Inactive Scout will become un-assigned to a patrol and may return to his patrol when his dues and attendance responsibilities are current. Should his former patrol be full at that time, he may apply for the next available patrol opening or wait for an opening in his former patrol.

8. Our Troop ALWAYS TRAVELS IN PROPER UNIFORM as decided by the PLC

for the type of event planned.

I hope this is informative.

Cheers

Every day in a Scout Troop is a new day in the world! There will be all sorts of opportunities for mandates, variations and violations. We have addressed this over the years by publishing two sets of rules.

1. Adult made rules that address safety, CO concerns and BSA Policies.

2. Scout Rules authored by the Scouts. These rules are reviewed/revised at the leader training after Troop Elections every six months. Now the new PLC has adopted this new set of rules and has agreed to the validity. We also do a session about how the PLC will review mis-behaviour with compassion and the aim to have the behaviour leave and the Scout remain. We use role play for this instruction. Long ago, the adults did the role play but as soon as the Scouts caught on they became the players.

Item No. 2 is augmented by suggestions whispered in the SPL's ear.

IE: "Maybe the PLC would like the challenge to set a food budget for a campout and see if the patrols can meet it."

Or, Do you think the Patrols would like some sort of dining competition on the next campout? Maybe International cuisine or a specific cuisine like Italian, French or Mexican? We could even invite special judges to dinner; such as for Italian we could invite the Italian Consul.

Whispered suggesstions can spark debates that may turn out in a totally different place that where the suggestion started, but the end result will reflect what the Scouts want and will support.

I remember a Monty Python like campout theme I experienced as a boy: SPAMOUT. Every meal had to involve a "creative Dish" incorporating Spam. The Dinner Judge was the head of the nearby manager of the Hormel Packing Plant! Themes are fun when the boys think them up. So what if it started with a whisper.

We use blue, red and yellow feathers prepared with a loop of leather as it would be to affix to a warbonnet, awarded for 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place which necessatates a patrol flag to fly from.

Cheers

Home school kids were mede to feel unwelcome???

What is wrong with this picture?

Lord Robert Baden-Powell took youngsters from all walks of life to Brownsea Island to see if his concept would work.

NEWS FLASH! It worked.

Unless you are with a CO that holds women as 2nd class citizens, why is no one offended with the well off ASM that helps with equipment and sets a negative sexist example for the Scouts?

Whatever happens in this situation, the Scouts do not need a leader who sets a negative example.

Following is what I say to units who shut down for the summer.

If Scouting is a program to teach character building and values to your son, why would you take three months off?

What happens during the summer that makes teaching character building and values to your son unnecessary?

Cheers,

Ol' Thunder Fox

I have two items to share that I feel are relevant to this topic:

1. Our troop is strong and we have a good group of adults who are trained and have been taught that WE set the example. We are the "Old Timer" patrol. Our patrol leader position rotates among the trained leaders, we use the same duty roster and menu planner the Scouts use. Our patrol campsite is the "Model" campsite and has an "Old Timers" gateway. New adults camping with us are guests who are oriented by the patrol and explained "Why Training". We have patrol guidelines that are published in the second item I wish to share here.

2. We have a "Parents Handbook & Troop Committee Guidebook" that was a labor of love by several leaders over the years as ticket items. Minus membership rosters and such, a copy is given to visiting parents during a Q&A session and explained. All of those "untrained" questions are answered therein. When they join the rosters, calendar and other member sensitive stuff is added. This tool has helped us maintain a "TRAINED" Committee and a leader staff of 15-25 Wood Badgers for many years.

Just message me with your email address if you would like the files. They are in MSWord and may be edited for your troop.

Cheers,

Ol' Thunder Fox

As Scoutmaster having served for many years, I have been blessed with many exceptional fellow volunteers who made me look good. One in particular was Robert (Bob) Helm. Bob was an Eagle Scout who came to the troop when his son crossed over. Bob was 6'-5" tall and was so skinny he had to run around in a shower to get wet. He was mostly bald, had a beard and a permanent smile. His picture should be in the Scout Handbook next to Cheerful except that it would have to be next to nearly every other positive attribute in the same book. One of many of the fabulous things about Bob was his whole heartedly joining in on one of the training methods we like to use in our troop, Role Play. Bob would be the perfect timid "Timmy Tenderfoot" and after the boys literally rolled on the floor holding their sides watching him, they never forgot the lesson he brought them.

Bob passed away from cancer and left a hole in the world. In his honor I funded The Robert Helm Memorial Award in our district. It is given only to Unit level Scouters (SM's not eligible) whose service makes significant contributions to the success of their own units and also gives service to the district.

Many Scouts have richer lives from knowing Bob, I know mine is. Bob rests along the west fence of a cemetery on the east side of our local Scout camp and the boys started referring to camping there as "visiting Mr. Helm", in my heart I do too.

Bottom Line is, our district added several "missing awards" for deserving service to the youth of our district. There is a similar award for Cub Scout unit Leaders among them.

Troop24,

I never said, "No Drinking", I said follow the rules you agreed to abide by. That means no drinking at Scout events or on Scout property. I personally (just my feelings) extend that to (to me) No Drinking in Uniform.

I still have a drink every once in a while, but these days it is rare and minimal due to diabetes. But, in my 50 years of Scouting, it has never been at a Scouting event or on Scout property (in or out of uniform).

I have never stopped at the store on the way home from a Scouting event in uniform and purchased alcohol. That is a personal guideline that is self-imposed. My personal belief and interpretation is it is a logical extension of "Setting The Example".

In 1979 at the age of thirty something a few weeks prior to summer camp, the troop was having the younger Scouts, including my son, working on skill awards. The one where smoking is taught to be bad for your body. I already was very un-obvious in my smoking around the Scouts as Scouting guidelines stated, but the boys asked me why I smoked. My son also stated that since smoking could kill me, he wanted me to stop so I could be part of the life of a grandson someday! That really rocked my mind and I really had no good reason to give them, so I told them that when we got to summer camp whatever cigarettes I had in my pocket at the time would be my last. I wanted them to see my discomfort at going cold-turkey for the educational value. On July 6, 1979 at 12:45 pm was my last smoke to date.

My Scouts have also never heard me curse, be derogatory regarding any religion or etnic group, be sexist or tell inappropriate jokes. That is a choice, because I signed a pledge to BSA to follow the rules.

My personal motto, which I feel has a lot of truth, is from Mark Twain:

"Always do right. This will impress some folks, and astonish the rest."

WOW!!!

Now days it is so easy to paint an entire people with just one brush!!!

All you (Athiests/Christains/Jews/Catholics/Mormons/Republicans/Democrats/Rotarians/Hells Angels/Civil Air Patrol/PTA/chess players - pick one) are all (whining, intolerant, bigoted, misfits - pick one or more) who claim everyone else deprives them of their (rights/jobs/ice cream cones/M&M's/birth control/freedom and access to y-front underwear pick one).

I would say that humans are all different and individuals of any group have differing opinions, but as this statement is empirical, I will not stand by it!

I see lots of posts in theis thread that say I think this is ok but that is not or I think this is not ok but that is.

Folks, this is not a quilting Bee where we exchange opinions on how we should all behave, it is about being leaders to Boy Scouts who we expect to learn and follow rules.

I remember many years ago that I signed a form that my signature attested to my pledge to follow the rules, regulations and policies of the Boys Scouts of America. Scouts know this and they are aware of the rules because we teach them the rules. They can tell you which leaders are the hypocrites.

We exhort Eagles to "Lead, but lead only to the best"; well, we need to strive to that end ourselves. We are not striving when we can allow ourselves "just one" or make other excuses for ourselves. That is a choice, not an accident. A rare accidental under the breath expletive immediately follow by an apology is a human error. Choosing to drink, curse regularly, verbally abuse others, discriminate, be sexist, etc. are all intolerable behaviours and are reasons to be asked to leave.

If you are serious about being a Scouter, following the rules is part and parcel of your pledge. What is intolerable is being a bad leader because you think its ok to make excuses for your own behaviour forbidden by BSA.

Here are a few things we use.

1. We have a Parents' Handbook that has a section called "You and Your Son" and this very subject is addressed. Visiting Webelos Parents get a copy before their son ever joins, we leave out the members only stuff.

2. The Scoutmaster and assistants usually perform a short skit utilizing role play and humor at each Troop Committee meeting to shed light on "the topic of the month" and hopefully teach those who need the lesson. It seems every couple of years this subject is the topic.

3. Our Parents' Handbook actually has an adults' rule that says at Troop events, a Dad will NOT be his own son's diciplinarian, another Scouter will do this and he will return the favor for the other dad and his son. The book explains that most Scouts do not have a parent along and so that boy's parents will never know what transpired at the event unless it is misbehavior that warrants the parents' knowledge. So, do not penalize your son for having an active parent; you could drive him away from Scouting.

4. Of course, if all this does not work, a one on one talk with the Scoutmaster should work.

BTW, our "Troop Parents' Handbook & Troop Committee Guidebook" is available digitally in MSWord, just drop me a note with email address.

The problem is NOT the conflicting program material because we all know what the REAL rule is: Parents may attend. The bottom line is being prepared to handle the situation if it arises and a verbal explanation is not accepted. A Council approved flyer (reflecting council policy)for parents is going to be more effective.

BSA_ldr,

I have a "Parents' Handbook & Troop Committe Guide" that was written in MSWord by several Scouters based on all the stuff BobWhite wrote (Gee BobWhite that stuff looks familiar!). Of course in word, its editable.

It is written for our troop that still runs a membership of 80+/- Scouts. But adapt it for your troop. It even has a job description for each of the sub-committees. Just do not let the committee start voting on what's in it!

TRAIN EVERYBODY. I have never heard of a Scout Troop that failed because of the Scouts. Troops fall apart when adults do not follow the program or new adults wish to have a good troop deviate from the program.

Old Thunder Fox

I think the thread has been hijacked, but Daddy-o should know this.

When visiting a troop, it only takes two minutes to tell if you are in a good or bad troop and three more minutes to make sure your observations are correct. Then, if you are a Commissioner, it takes lots of time to determine the causes. If a boy is in charge, activities are going on and adults are just observing or counseling, its a good troop; its boy run.

Boy Scout troops never have problems between Scouts, troops break-up because adults cannot get along.

If the troop is more than two years old and only has twelve boys, there is an adult leader problem. Either the Scoutmaster has no help and the odds are, he runs off the help while begging for help.

The Committe often gets off course by thinking they run the troop and they vote on whether the Scouts get to do what they have have spent months planning. This only serves to teach the boys there is no reason to plan anything.

It often boils down to the un-trained leaders against the trained leaders. The un-trained leaders are absolutely convinced they know how a troop should run and the trained leaders, who follow the BSA Program, are doing it all wrong. The are all united in telling the trained leaders how wrong they are. The funny part about this is when the trained leaders give up and leave to start a new troop (or vice versa), the formerly united un-trained leaders then fight amongst themselves because there is no "Accoding To Us" Program book to share and by which to run the troop. So that falls apart or it becomes the 12 boy troop.

Boys only learn all that BSA has to offer when a troop runs by the book.

In my eighteen years as a Scoutmaster (among a total of 50 some), we only had one recruiting event (Troop Open House) when the troop was one year old and we had started with 15 new Scouts and they wanted to grow. All the other years, neighboring Webelos dens visited or went camping with us and joined because they were welcomed and mentored. Or, just because our Scouts always told stories at school about how much fun they have in Scouting, their friends wanted to join in the fun and they did. We always have 75-85 boys with most of them active, a fully trained committee w/ 12-20 Wood Badge trained leaders and its run by the Scouts. We camp at least monthly, and merit badges were only taught at troop meetings as a program feature if it was part of the program, ie: Rock Climbing because at the end of the month the boys had an Overnight Lock-In planned at an indoor climbing facility.

It has now been 8 years since I was the Scoutmaster and the troop still runs essentially the same way, presumably because the BSA way is more important than my way.

YIS,

Old Thunder Fox

Daddy-O

After all is said and done, the Scouting program offers your son an opportunity to:

1. Learn about Democracy and citizenship from the inside by being a member of a patrol (city) and a Troop (state) and Council (Country) and meet the candidates and vote for who he determines is the best candidate.

2. Put your son in an uncomfortable enviornment and have his slightly older peers teach him not only how to cope with the new environment but master it and gain confidence in his own coping skills and abilities. And many of these are Life Skills to follow him as long as he lives.

3. Have his slightly older peers set examples of meeting responsibilities, planning and running meetings, setting goals, financial planning and meeting those responsibilities, paying your own way, planning and executing projects, taking care of the younger boys, taking care of owned and borrowed equipment, doing the right thing.

4. Have his slightly older peers teach him leadership, skill by skill, and then give him the opportunity to try out these new skills in many different roles.

5. Participate in a program that offers no conflict with his family form of worship, yet help him understand those teachings on his own personal level.

There are many more opportunities i could list, but, at this moment, consider that all the US Military Academies have a high regard for those who have undergone these experiences and training to attain the Eagle Scout rank. They evan ask if you are an Eagle Scout and those who are get another nomination for it.

Boys who have been through the "Eagle Mills" without the benefit of the EXPERIENCES always fail miserably.

We are talking about character building and learning Leadership to go with it. We are talking about 10 years of living and learning these things to prepare your son for manhood.

Daddy-O, I think the question here is not does your son want this. The question is, "Are you willing to help him get there?"

ThunderFox

Guys,

There are enough abuses within our program, parents will quite often be queasy about their son going off to a "confidential" event. Hopefully, the parent will contact someone to discuss attending the Ordeal.

So, cooler heads in your district or council (or National?) will have a prepared "Official" pamphlet that explains the concerns OA has and lists "Guidelines" for non-members attending. This should be done by some adult "Official Leader" who will hand them the pamphlet and be there to explain, answer questions and address concerns. It should also present the Mystery aspect and how non-member parents should not obviously be in attendance.

It should also explain the no photo/video policy which is NOT guaranteed by National. Also, no siblings will be admitted (Be prepared - babysitters); The rule cites parents.

When parents have concerns, we need to be prepared to address and allay them.

Yours in Scouting, yrhmblsrvnt,

Old Thunder Fox

We started a new troop at a new Church with 15 Webelos and one Eagle Scout who had just moved to the area and his family joined the Church. Due to this Eagle's care and concern with the new Scouts, the boys remembered their first year struggles and told me they did not want New Scout Patrols in their troop; they wished to spread out among all the new Scouts so they would have "big brothers" in the troop to buddy-up one on one with new Scouts to make them welcome, teach them and make their troop stronger than troops they had seen in our district with NSPs.

The troop is now 11 years old, does not have NSPs and maintains a membership of over 80 Scouts who feel they belong and run their own troop. Being a 40 year+ Scouter I think the NSP is a Band-Aid with no adhesive; it was designed for adult run troops that had hazing problems. They had hazing problems because the adults usurped the older boys jobs and the older boys were not really taught Scouting as it is supposed to be.

Deb,

If I can ever be of service just let me know! Us old Mossbacks come in handy sometimes!

Ol' TF

Welcome Everyone who is new!!! And greetings to all the stalwarts! I just got back myself after an absence of a few years!