TheScout

The only way to get the government out of making decisions in this regard is to stop funding this stuff altogether.

Reminds me of that one Indiana Jones.

Well the federal government should do it because they are always so good at doing stuff.

I still want to know what the list means to you.

What it really comes down to is you want no limit on the federal government spending power. I think there should be a limit. So what does the list of enumerations mean to you?

For the first 30 years of military aircraft it was part of the Army and the Navy. The USAF was not created until 1947. Anyway. There is a reason the 2 year limit only applied to the Army and not the Navy.

Why is the 2 year funding limit obsolete? This is one of the greatest principles of the English constitution that was brought to America. This shows how you have no conception of tyranny other than your silly anti-religion crusade. Recall at early times all air arms were part of the either the Army of the Navy. Nobody would have thought it would expand so to merit its own branch. Maintaining foreign bases and paying rent for them is different than foreign aid. What about all the countries we aid with no bases? You seem to warp the meaning of the word necesary. I don't blame you. Big government people have been doing it for a long time. They don't like to stick to things that are clearly necesary like an Air Force to wage war. Read Jefferson's Opinion on the Constitutionality of the Nationl Bank again. It is quite good and explains this better than I ever could. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bank-tj.asp Under your theory, what is the point of the list?

Well war in the air did not occur when the the Constitution was written. Congress was clearly given the authority to make war. That was the meaning of the said articles. It is necesary for war now. I doubt foreign spending during peacetime is "necesary" to make war. Every single military figure would think an air force is necesary. Many less would think so for foreign aid in peacetime. I doubt you really you think the clause allows Congress to do anything it wants to make war that is not necesary. What if Congress wanted to build 10 Commandments monuments everywhere to enhance the morality of our citizenry so they make better soldiers?

The Constitution gives Congress the power to make war. That is listed. The Necesarry and Proper Clause allows Congress to do all things "necesary and proper" to carry out all previous powers. Creation of an Air Force is necesary and proper to make war. All military thinkers agree on this.

Article I, Section 8: The Congress shall have power. . . To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations; To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years; To provide and maintain a navy; To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces; To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress Article I, Section 9: No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay. Article I, Section 8: To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof. It seems Congress clearly has the exclusive authority to wage war and build the forces to do so. If there is power so necesary to carrying into execution one of the constitutional powers, it is the need to have an Air Force to wage war. Not a single modern military thinker would think so. Even you should have known this.

Not until we start following the Constitution again. Somebody has to stand up for it. It isn't just about warrantless wiretaps.

No, its actually quite easy. If it is on the list, they can do it. Congress can make post roads, build an army, coin money, etc. Its all on the list. If it isn't on the list, they can't do it. Any small child can read a list.

Great point! Why are some only worried about the health of a person outside of the womb. A bit hypocritical for those who whine so about health care to also be an accomplice the killing of so many millions.

Jefferson's. He actually cared about the Constitution and did not want to manipulate it to create a great bureaucratic military state like Hamilton did.

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States" It has the power to lay taxes to provide for the general welfare. What does that have to do with foreign aid. Clearly that clause doesn't mean Congress can spend money on whatever they want.

Why isn't it on the list then. It says they may lay taxes etc. for the general welfare. If the general welfare clause means Congress can spend on whatever it wants, why are the other things even listed. It is clear that this was not meant to be an all embracing power. You are manipulating the Constitution. They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. Thomas Jefferson

I don't see Congress having the power to give foreign aid. Why isn't it on the list? Article I. Section 8: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To borrow money on the credit of the United States; To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States; To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures; To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States; To establish post offices and post roads; To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries; To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court; To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations; To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years; To provide and maintain a navy; To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces; To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress; To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

Congress can only do whats in the Constitution. Where does the Constitution authorize foreign aid?

I missed the part of the Constitution that authorizes foreign aid.

Silly. We can just print more money. Its free.

10th Amendment. Believe it or not it actually was meant to mean something.

Massive federal government spending could go along with massive tax cuts. More money would be in the hands of the people. Local governments could take a larger cut to provide better services on smaller levels with less bureaucracy and more efficiency. As people see the government will no longer bail out everyone, there will be a renewed sense of social responsibility. People could use their extra money to donate more to charities which provide better services than the federal government. People would have more money to look after their own needs and that of their relatives. But we need the federal government to save us all. That is the only way it can be done. Who needs liberty? Who needs the Constitution?

Nobody says we should ignore the suffering of others. We just do not think that the federal government is the best to help out by any measure, whether financial, moral, or constitutional. Some do not think private individuals, charity, and local governments are not good enough to do so. Only the federal government can save us. As vol_scouter puts it, it is a choice between responsibility and government control. I want responsibility and liberty.

Yes I am glad that federal money is now going to organizations that help abortions. I think I remember seeing that authorized in the Constitution.

But what was it the gentleman proposed to Scrooge? Did he propose they pester the government to help the poor? He proposed they step in and provide private charity. That is part of personal responsibility - to help the poor. It is a shame that in these days we make the governement the primary source of aid to the less fortunate. Hopefully we all teach our scouts that THEY should exercise personal responsibility and THEY should help the less fortunate as they are able and should not wait for the "government." That is the ideal that America was founded on.