TheScout

Well as a Catholic I don't believe in artificial birth control. Anyway, such a procedure would be a horrible interference on the liberty of the mother.

Its ok. Typo I assure you. Good catch. I only claim to know will of the writers of the Constitution, not God. ; )

I don't claim to know what God wants. I only listen to the Roman Catholic Church.

I am no expert, but I think you are correct on the Church's position on using extraordinary means.

See! States can do some things. We don't need the federal government to do everything.

packsaddle, I doubt you care, but I do claim to know God's will. I simply try to respect the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church which I believe Jesus left to represent Him on earth. The Church does not support IVF.

I guess all these problems would be solved if we didn't play God and make embryos in the first place.

I wouuld not dare to call God's work magic. It is not just me who says that rights come from God. The Declaration of Independence itself does as I quoted above. It has been the atheistic systems which recognized no human rights independent of government fiat which have committed the greatest abuses on people.

I don't like the idea of sterilization. I think we should encourage policies to maximize human liberty.

I doubt anyone does not want the kids to have any money and starve. People just do not want a bureoucratic unresponsive federal government doing it.

I am sorry I can not tell you the "exact" moment of conception? Do you really believe that our rights don't come from God?

So the answer to the mom's lack of responsibility is to let her kill her babies? "Maybe the pro-lifers will send you checks to help out with your God-given right. Yeah, good luck with that." I do not think it is funny to mock God given rights.

packsaddle, I guess I have never really put much thought into the exaxt moment of conception. I didn't know there was such a debate about that I admit. I follow the Catholic position that any act which interferes with procreation is wrong. I don't think we should very casually brush off that life is a gift from God. It may be considered the very basis of our poliitcal order. Recall the Declaration of Independence itself "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that a

There is a point when you believe that either every human life is a gift from God or you don't.

If you take such an approach, there really are no "other issues." For example, pre-natal care is not part of the debate because it does not affect the fact that there was a murder. The government punishing the crime of murder is not intruding on the lives of others sir or "big government." Unless you do not think the government should be involved in punishing crime. I don't know if there are such 'equally valid" methods of saying when conception is. Sounds to me like someone who is a moral relativist and can say a variety of moral arguments are equally good.

I think it is not fair to trivialize the pro-life position as such. If one truely believes that abortion is murder, none of the pre-natal care/ responsibility/ funding issues matter. All that matters is innocent babeies are being murdered.

"She thinks it is worse to punish the baby by having in grow up in a situation that does not have much of a chance of a good outcome." Wow.

I must confess I do not get the rape, incest, or health of the mother exception. It seems to me you believe it is a life and it is wrong to end it, or not? With all due respect it seems to smack of a bit of hypocrisy.

I guess you can paint the slow erosion of liberty however you wish.

packsaddle, you make it a lot harder than it is. Life starts at conception. Any killing of a baby after that is murder.

I would hope I don't have to "get over" murder. What a sad way of thinking.

Lots of restraints on liberty Beavah, eh? Yah, I know one I'd like to see, eh? No "dynasties"? Shouldn't everyone be able to run and shouldn't I be able to vote for whoever I want? No gerrymandering? I sympathize with a bit. But I don't know how well an impartial panel would do over our elected representatives in drawing districts. At least legislatures are accountable. No lobbying? Why shouldn't a former public official be able to do whatever he wants? And their family? The government should just not worry about it. Voters can hold people responsible.

And now the roles women have had for thousands of years are a straight jacket . . .

Wow. I am quite sure I do not need to say anything to that.

"I don't want my daughters to be punished for making a mistake by being forced to have a baby!" Gotta hate being held responsible for what one does. What ever happened to personal responsibility in this country?