The Blancmange

>>>> Our RT is run a bit differently, I think, than some of y'alls. We have a 30-45 minute meeting as a whole (Boy and Cub) with Council running it, giving out council awards, info on camping, etc. Then we split into two groups--Boy Scouts in one, Cubs in the other--and each group meets for 30-45 minutes on topics relavent to that group.

Our troop is considering a backpacking trip to Porcupine Mountains State Park for next summer. While reading something entirely unrelated, I came across a reference to the fact that Michigan has some strange definitions of what constitutes a summer camp that must be licensed and think that our trip, if it lasts for 5 or more days, may require a license from the state Department of Human services. If this is true, for practical reasons, we would be selecting a destination outside of Michigan.

The DHS website says this: "A children's camp is five or more children, away from their parents, relatives or legal guardians, for five or more days within a 14-day period in a natural environment."

I read through the regulations and it certainly sounds like this would apply to a troop camping trip such as what we are considering. Can someone in Michigan or who is familiar with these rules set me straight on this.

>>>>If all boys are in full uniflrom, how does one know which is rich or poor

Pretty easy to tell who has da rumpled, slightly mis-fit, hand-me-down uniform vs. who has the most recent, straight from da shop, fully mom-measured-and-sewed rich kids uniform around these parts.

Medicine strikes me as a particularly appropriate merit badge. Maybe he could even recruit a new counselor :-)

I don't know the textbook answer without looking, but my off-the-cuff response would be that it is not appropriate to modify advancement requirements for a short term disability. Perhaps if it is something that is expected to last a year or more, but if 3-4 months is the most you are talking about, there are plenty of less strenuous things he can work on, as others have noted.

We encourage everyone to put their name on their stuff. If something is found with a name, it is returned. If it has no name, we will ask at a meeting or two. If it is unclaimed and is something useful, it goes in with the troop gear, if not it gets pitched. I can't say that we have an excess of lost stuff, even without employing any "tricks."

It would be interesting to know if those prior convictions predate his BSA application and if so, whether they showed up in his background check.

I guess in a larger town this might go unnoticed, but around here it would be difficult for someone to not hear about it, if he were already a leader.

>>>> The diversion program is a good idea. I called this morning and the department has one.

What level are your scouts? From the context, it sounds like a Webelos outing, in which case it sounds about right and pretty interesting.

That's good. Sounds like things are headed in the right direction. It does sound like someone could use a little work on their people skills, though.

Thanks, guys. Thats what I thought.

I hope he receives the Honor Medal for this.

Where will the 2.75% fee come out of, the council or unit share, or will it be split?

Sorry, no experience with this, but that was the first question that came to mind.

This really isn't a unit fundraising question, but this forum seemed to be the best fit. A young woman with several children in our area has received a fairly grim cancer diagnosis. Several of her friends and family are organizing a fundraising benefit for her and her family. They have asked if any of our scouts would like to volunteer to help. Primarily they would be helping with setup and serving food.

Obviously, the scouts may do whatever they want on their own free time. My question is, whether we can consider this a troop activity, and count the time as service hours (I recognize this is primarily a matter within the SM's discretion)? It isn't a unit fundraiser, so we presumably don't need to complete a unit money earning application. But I wondered whether anyone thought this language, which appears to come from the national by-laws has any applicability: "Youth members shall not be permitted to serve as solicitors of money for chartered organization units, for the local council, or in support of other organizations."

On a related note, could they wear uniforms while working at the benefit? They're not selling a commercial product, and it doesn't seem within the realm of the unit fundraising rules. It seems like positive exposure without any of the concerns that underly the other prohibitions. Thoughts?

http://tinyurl.com/3b5rd6s

I thought it was interesting that he is a 17 year old First Class scout.

I especially like his father's perspective:

"To see him be selfless and thoughtful like that, I was absolutely proud of him," he said. "But as I tell him: 'Hey, Mr. Hero. Pick up your socks.'"

(This message has been edited by the blancmange)

And yes, the COR is a member of both the district and council committees with full voting rights, something that is sometimes not widely known, esp. to new CORs. They have full voting rights on those committees.

Slight change of topic here, but I am just curious - If a CO charters two units, a pack and troop for example, would their COR have two votes at the district and council level? Would the result differ if they had different individuals for each position? Should it be different?

If a CO was very involved and wanted to have more district/council influence, should they appoint separate COR's?

Our COR and CC are different people, however the COR is very active in scouting, having held most other unit-level (and several district) positions at one time or another. He is, essentially, a de facto committee member and participates as such. Our committee is an agreeable bunch and it doesn't usually come down to votes. However, everyone recognizes that the COR has the final say, should he choose to exercise it.

Don't wear tan shirt and green pants/shorts. I had folks thinking I was a ranger and askign me questions.

What happened to helpful? ;-)

Treat it the same as any other cloth advancement. Unless your scout store is very lax, you need an advancement report to buy them. Contact your local Order of the Arrow if you want them to perform a ceremony in regalia.

I guess I don't understand BP's concerns about turning this into a "public spectacle." Is he referring to the advice given to the OP, the vast majority of which was to report the incident to the SE, or is he saying that this discussion thread itself is a public spectacle? If the former, the issue has already been made public within the circle of the unit involved. Reporting it to the SE won't make that any more so, in fact the SE would likely handle it more discretely.

If the latter, then if that is the case, we might as well shut down the forum. There is nothing fundamentally different about this thread than any other thread where someone has described a situation involving their unit and sought advice. There isn't any information in the thread that would allow someone to personally identify the people or unit involved. As far as any of us are concerned, this might as well be a hypothetical situation.

If this situation happened in a school setting (public or private) how would it get handled?

I'm not aware of any schools that have policies preventing individuals with different sexual orientations from holding leadership positions, or otherwise treating them differently. So, I suspect a situation like this would never happen in a school. More generally, I can't imagine a school confronting a student about a serious allegation, without keeping the parents in the loop. I know our school district has several pages of policy related to student discipline. It provides various levels of due process protections, based on the severity of the conduct and possible punishment. They include such things as written notice of the allegation and advance notice of a hearing, the opportunity to present a defense or explanation, and in the most severe cases, a hearing before the full school board. I suspect most districts, and even private institutions, have something similar.

As for the allegations of how he was treated at summer camp, the story related here is a textbook example of how that should NOT be handled. (This message has been edited by the blancmange)

SSG Richard Billmeyer, an ASM from Troop 48 in Dubuque, IA, had both of his legs amputated following an injury in Afghanistan:

http://thegazette.com/2011/07/27/epworth-soldier-seriously-hurt-in-afghanistan/

Here is a link more information on the council website, but the site appears to be temporarily down:

http://scoutsiowa.org/news.html

he says his hands are tied he cannot tell her anything without permission of the committee.

Nonsense. This investigation/inquiry/inquisition/witch hunt/whatever you want to call it was created by these leaders out of whole cloth. There are no rules, except for what they have made up.

As Moosetracker suggested earlier, it is very unlikely that anyone involved with the unit has consulted with the SE about this. The SE certainly would have put a stop to this "investigation" and conducted his own proper one.

The SE needs to be informed of this, before it gets further out of hand. Especially in light of what happened at summer camp. The scout and his parents would also not be unreasonable in filing a complaint with the EEOC for the harassment that ocurred while he was a camp employee.

It is the troop who has abandoned the scout, not vice versa.(This message has been edited by the blancmange)

I haven't done this in a scouting context, but Apostle Islands sea kayaking is an absolutely wonderful trip. If no one with the unit has any open water experience, I would definitely recommend a guide, which it sounds like you recognize.

I know there are some nice outfitters in the area, but can't remember the name of the one we rented from. Whether you could put together something that involved organizing the camping parts on your own for less would just take some research. Sorry I don't have anything more specific to offer.

The NPS website has much useful information: http://www.nps.gov/apis/planyourvisit/camping.htm

Best wishes with this. Our scouts are just getting interested in paddlesports, and I'd like to see them plan something like this, or Isle Royale or BWCA, but more likely in 2 years.

(This message has been edited by the blancmange)

Crew21 continues to insist that an inquiry of this nature would be OK if it were conducted in a "respectful" manner. I see two flaws with this claim.

First, the only thing we're told the scout did, whether action or words, was to claim that he was bisexual. Crew21 drew a connection between that statement and the safety of other youth in the unit. I asked him to explain that connection, and so far, he has not. The only connection that I can see is a belief that someone who bisexual (or homosexual, by extrapolation) is predisposed to act out inappropriately toward others based on that trait. If there is some other basis for the connection, I would like to hear it. If not, then I question why, as a Venturing leader, Crew21 is not concerned about admittedly heterosexual youth acting out inappropriately toward youth of the opposite sex.

Second, if the leaders who conducting such an inquiry have a good faith suspicion that a youth has acted in a sexually inappropriate manner toward other youth, their duty is not to conduct an investigation of any sort into the circumstances. YP training is clear that their one and only duty is to report it to the SE (and to authorities if it is potentially criminal or abusive within the meaning of their state's law). They are not supposed to make any determination of whether it is well-founded before reporting. (See this thread for a discussion of the scope of this reporting obligation: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=313039#id_313295 )

So I ask again, if the only allegation being made is that a scout claimed to be bisexual (regardless of the veracity of that claim), how is the safety of other scouts implicated?(This message has been edited by the blancmange)