The Blancmange

BP, thanks for the insightful explanation of the process for revoking a membership. Isn't there some guidance given to pros about when to exercise this? I'm guessing that, since National is also informed of this, there must be a form for reporting it. I'm also guessing that there is a spot on the form for the reason for the revocation, and that "doesn't play well with others" is not one of the choices.

I suspect that these reports of DE's threatening to revoke membership over what amounts to differences in opinion over programming, are hollow threats. We hear several of them anecdotally, but does anyone know of such a threat being acted on? Would any SE really consent to revoke a membership for something like this? This is, of course different from removing them from a district committee position, which is basically an "at will" appointment by the committee.

Does National do anything to look into the merits when a membership is revoked? Sure, an unscrupulous executive could manufacture any number of reasons, but if an SE really forwarded something that said a membership was revoked over disagreements on a district committee, would it be accepted?

In trying to look into this, I came across reference to a publication titled "Scout Executive's Manual." It does not appear to be available publicly online. This would be an interesting read.(This message has been edited by the blancmange)

>>>>But in reality does all that really happen?

There are really three different "removals" being discussed here, and it is becoming somewhat confusing, as it is not clear exactly what type the OP was implying.

1. Removal from the Unit: The COR or IH can remove anyone from their unit for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all. This does not affect their eligibility for BSA membership in general (they would however, have to find a new unit, or district/council position prior to recharter in order to stay registered).

2. Removal from Scouting: Only the SE can do this, and it makes the person ineligible for membership at any level. It is my understanding that this should only be exercised in the case of YP, criminal or other serious background issues. It should not be used to solve petty disputes over district programming. I can't find any written guidance on this procedure; perhaps our "insider" members may have something to add.

3. Removal from district/council committee: I can't find anything written on this subject, but presumably this would be the province of the respective committee. I doubt that this is even the SE or DE's job. This would not effect a person's unit registration.

The threat that the OP received seems somewhat vague, but would appear to be Number 3, if it is, in fact Number 2, that appears to be a gross misuse of the power.

This doesn't really respond to the original question, but if I (acting on behalf of my unit, not simply a personal preference) didn't like the location (or some other aspect of a district event), we simply would not attend it (or attend a similar event in another district. We might organize something better and more fun for our unit. If what the OP says about the number of dissatisfied unit leaders is true, and they all voted with their feet, that would be a much more powerful message than a signature campaign.

The text quoted below was represented, by a reliable source on another board (who may or may not want that disclosed in another context, hence the anonymity), to be the "official" BSA job description for DE. The parenthetical remarks are commentary of the person who posted it originally.

POSITION DESCRIPTION:

TITLE: District Executive (note: there's a DIFFERENCE between this title and "District Professional", "District Representative" and "District Director"....mostly tied to level of responsibility and supervision and to compensation (money))

POSITION CONCEPT: Serve as an executive officer of the District and be responsible for the effective organization, operation and promotion of the Council's programs within the District. Responsible for the achievement of District objectives. Give staff guidance to the cultivating, recruiting, training, coaching and inspiring of key volunteer personnel for the District. Coordinate the work of District volunteer personnel so that their efforts will strenghten and extend the program offered by chartered organizations and their units. Assume additional Council-wide responsibilies as (outlined below) may be assigned. Reports to (Field Director or other intermediate supervisor; in this particular job description's case, she reports to the District Director of the Central District).

PRINCIPLE RESPONSIBILITIES:

1. GIVE LEADERSHIP TO ALL DISTRICT VOLUNTEER PERSONNEL which will result in the District expriencing growth, continued improvement and acheiving accepted critical acheivements ("critical achievements" are a set of goals jointly coordinated and developed by the volunteer District committee and the professional; and finalized and quantified by the supervising Field Director and the professional. It's like Management by Objectives (MBO) or like the military's evaluation report support form, for those that understand either of those two concepts).

2. REVIEW, IN CONSULTATION WITH THE DISTRICT CHAIR, THE DISTRICT COMMITTEE ORGANIZATION and recruit and train/coach personnel in order that assigned committees will be properly staffed and function effectively.

3. WORK WITH THE DISTRICT COMMISSIONER AND COMMISSIONER STAFF and assist in recruiting, training and coaching to provide unit service, on-time registration of all units, and regular roundtable meetings (this is the reason why the professional also wears the "wreath of service" that all Commissioners wear as part of their insignia; the profession arose from the volunteer service of the Commissioner).

4. RECRUIT, IN COOPERATION WITH THE FINANCE CHAIR AND DISTRICT FOS (Friends of Scouting, what is still called in some Councils "Sustaining Membership Enrollment") CHAIR, LEADERSHIP FOR SUSTAINING MEMBERSHIP ENROLLMENT to raise assigned share of the Council goal.

5. INSURE THAT REGULAR YEARLY VISITS ARE MADE TO THE HEAD OF ASSIGNED CHARTERED ORGANIZATIONS to review unit leadership and promote a quality program as explained in the Annual Service Plan.

6. ASSIST CHARTERED ORGANIZATIONS IN THE ORGANIZATION AND REORGANIZATION OF UNITS in order that all boys will be given the opportunity to participate in the Scouting program.

7. PROMOTE PARTICIPATION IN DISTRICT AND COUNCIL EVENTS, including summer camp, Scout show, Council parade, and adequate Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity Scout, Exploring and Learning for Life activities and events. Develop and distribute a District calendar to aid communications with District and unit personnel.

8. MAINTAIN AN ACTIVE AND EFFECTIVE ROLE IN THE COMMUNITY, REPRESENTING THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA, in order to fulfill the Council's obligations to the community.

(9, 10 and 11 are job-specific tasks of this particular executive. They include serving as advisor to the Council's Order of the Arrow program and outdoor camping events; being a positive role model for youth in the communities he or she serves as an outward sign of responsible Scouting leadership; and living a community, personal and professional life consistant with the Scout Executive Code. Some local Councils do not include additional items in the "generic" job description, but rather leave it to the supervisor and field executive to work out "the specifics" and to document it as part of the "critical achievements" for the first year.)

So, presumably, BS-87 opposes women as leaders in the BSA and would not allow his child to belong to a unit that allowed women in leadership positions. He must also avoid district, council, and camp events where they might be involved.

>>>> Some people frown on hammocks because the ropes may wear away the tree's bark.

Nugent725 asks several excellent questions. Unfortunately, he is unlikely to receive reasoned responses to them from those supporting the discriminatory policy, based on past experience with similar questions. In most cases, there simply are not rational, evidence-based answers that support the policy.

>>>> didn't i read somewhere that if something happens that is specifically prohibited inthe G2SS, national's insuracne will not cover anything?

>>>> On the other side, Webelo den camping is much more like traditional troop camping and requires 2 deep leadership. At least, this is what I teach the last two times I taught BALOO. If the rules are different, someone better correct me quick (and cite the reference)!

>>>>Boys also model their behavior in relationships after what they notice from their adult role models. They are always watching, learning, and adapting.

An openly gay leader creates a role model who may be the great authoritarian and boys model that part of him more than anything else, but they'll also notice the relationships/behaviors of that openly gay leader and model their own actions after that. While no parent I know would chastise their son for being gay, they most certainly wouldn't prefer their son to learn how to form relationships and affections from an openly gay person.

BD hasn't yet given any indication that the DE is on board with this evil plan. Judging from the fact that the tour plan for the Webelos event was approved, I suspect not.

The district committee really has no say in whether or not to renew a charter. That the the DE's (& SE's) territory. No DE is going to refuse to renew a charter over something this petty. It affects his numbers, and in turn his performance reviews and chances at advancement. It just isn't going to happen, and if it would, BD's plan to go to the media would make them look even more ridiculous.

The more I think about this, the more it bothers me. How does a district committee have any say in what a unit does with its own program? If I send in a registration form to another district's or council's event, it is up to that council or district if they want to accept it or not. Is this committee somehow convincing other districts to go along with their plan?

As mentioned, the only stumbling block is a tour plan if your council goes beyond the national requirements and requires them for trips within the council (if going to another district within the council), or if they have convinced the council pros (or whoever approves your tour plans) to go along as well.

On a side note, and please don't take this the wrong way, but based on Basementdweller's descriptions of the demographics of the families in his pack, I doubt the threat to not allow an FOS presentation really carries much weight.

I just see this "mandate" as very hollow.

>>>>But they could not approve any camping sites that are outside of the council boarders..

>>>>So is this group affiliated as in a group that has done stuff with the Boy Scouts in the past...or affiliated as in a part of Boy Scouts.

>>>> Forget desert hiking.. I still am not someone who sees Philmont as a "fun" place, even with all the neat equipment.. Hiking around in a desert, just doesn't seem all that fun..

I believe there is a good amount of first aid, choking, cpr, etc. instruction.

>>>> best thing I have ever found... fits great in cargo leg pocket... but if you are ever traveling long distance and boys are going to just ask to pull off the road and run into ditches don't keep it in your pack that is buried under other peoples gear!!!

The link worked with Chrome, but you also need a Twitter account in order to enter, which I don't have. :-(

While you can certainly teach the proper methods for crapping in the woods, I'm not sure what you can do to change these guy's aversion to doing so. Look at how many younger boys have trouble at camp because they don't want to use the latrines.

I would just go on the trip, take lots of pictures and show them what a great time everyone had. Then have them plan another backcountry trip. Maybe they will realize that there is a lot of fun to be had in the real woods and will decide its time to put this fear, or whatever it is "behind" them.

Sorry for the bad pun.

Mom is right this is something that SHOULD happen, but there is no BSA rule that requires it. Given that the CO controls the unit, I would speak with the COR about the situation. If he/she is aware of it and acquiesces in the current practice, then you cannot force a change. If the COR is unaware, he/she has the power to examine the books himself or direct that they be shown to the committee.

Regardless, this is not a good practice. In our unit, the books are an open book, so to speak. If anyone affiliated with the unit wants to see them, they are free to do so. The treasurer prints off a monthly summary and annually, a full report is printed and available to anyone who wants to see it.

You might also try talking to your unit commissioner. The UC doesn't have any authority to force them to do anything, but it is possible that a disinterested voice telling them this is not right may cause them to change their minds.

I suspect that Districts who are requiring all of their training staff to be registered at the district level (as district committee members or members at large, I presume, since there really is no specific position for volunteer training staff) simply have trouble filling out their district committee roster and are using this as an excuse. There is no good reason that a scouter who is registered at the unit level cannot contribute at a district event.

Beavah should know that the PC term is "person of short stature"

>>>>>Anything new on throwing horse shoes?

>>>>Our pack is listed in the same location as 3 other packs. None of which are in the location the pin is at.