The Blancmange

I'm reminded of this scene from Presumed Innocent with Harrison Ford. Unfortunately I can't find a video clip of it, as it's not as effective without the Judge's voice intonation:

Defense: Your Honor, we notice that Mr. Molto is listed both as a prosecutor and as a potential witness for the Prosecution. We object to that.

Judge: I take it you're speaking of where Mr. Savage responds to Mr. Molto's accusations of murder by saying "You're right?"

Prosecution: (Reading) "Yeah, you're right." Your Honor, the man admitted the crime.

Judge: Oh, c'mon, Mr. DeLaguardia, really. You tell a man he's engaged in wrongdoing, and he says, "Yeah, you're right." Now everybody knows that's facetious. We're all familiar with that. Shoot, in my neighborhood, had Mr. Savage come from those parts, he would have said, "Your mama." But in Mr. Savage's part of town, I would think they would say, "Yeah, you're right," and what they mean is, "You're wrong," just to be polite.

Crew21Adv, where is the nexus between an admission of bisexuality (however truthful it may have been) and the safety of other scouts?(This message has been edited by the blancmange)

How about these:

http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm/subsection/7/category/87

Browse around the rest of the site. They have all kinds of neat stuff for scouting project or around the house.

Crew21Adv wrote:

How can an adult investigate a minor's sexuality? After a boy makes a statement, a board of review is a good start. Shouldnt the leadership adults be responsible for the safety of all the boys in the troop.

Are you serious? Convene a BOR to determine a scout's sexuality (sexual orientation, more precisely)? How does one go about this? Call witnesses? I think, with most committees, that proposition would go over as well as a turd in a punch bowl.

What does a youth's sexual orientation have to do with safety? Presumably, based on his name, Crew21Adv is involved with the Venturing program. How does he deal with the fact that most of the youths in a coed program are heterosexual? Doesn't that present the same "safety" issue.

SeattlePioneer wrote:

I have to point out that all those condemning the actions of the troop leadership are operating on the basis of gossip themselves.

SP feels the need to point out the obvious today. All those who offered input or advice assumed the facts presented by the OP to be true. What else can we do? This is an internet forum, not an investigative body with subpoena power. Is it really necessary to add a qualification to every one of my posts that my opinion may change if I am presented with contrary information?

Scoutmom0618 wrote:

The "victim" making the statement he was bisexual...So, how long has he been living dishonestly??

SM0618 apparently questions the characterization of the youth as victim. During the summer camp portion of the incident (as reported by the original poster, and assuming this is true) was clearly the victim of sexual harassment as defined by the BSA.

The rumor should be dealt with and the boy confronted

So, Scoutmom0618, have you stopped beating your husband?

Moosetracker wrote:

The BSA's policy is for Adult leaders, not youth.

That's not entirely true. I cut and paste this from another thread, but the original link to its source is broken. I recall that this was an official statement:

Boy Scouts of America believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed. The conduct of youth members must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law, and membership in Boy Scouts of America is contingent upon the willingness to accept Scoutings values and beliefs. Most boys join Scouting when they are 10 or 11 years old. As they continue in the program, all Scouts are expected to take leadership positions. In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position (This message has been edited by the blancmange)

How about "Se habla Espanol"?

This is pretty commonly understood as meaning someone is available to speak Spanish, not necessarily that everyone in the business or organization displaying it does.

Eagle92 wrote:

Unfortunatley that is against BSA guidelines.

The guidelines E92 presumably is referring to are the NCS standards for council operated camps. "Resident Camp" refers to a camp that is at least 2 nights. Tigers cannot attend these. Coucil camps can run what are commonly referred to as "Cub overnights" with a 1:1 ratio.

These guidelines have nothing to do with unit-level programming. The OP is correct that neither the G2SS, Age Appropriate Guidelines, or anything else applicable to unit operations to not have any restriction like this for Cub pack family camping events.

So the sexual harassment language from the camp staff guide that I quoted above is actually more relevant than originally thought. It speaks precisely to the new part of the story presented. The scout or his parents need to go to the camp director and SE with that part of the story.

I would see that this is reported, and then run, not walk, away from these folks as soon as possible.(This message has been edited by the blancmange)

In our council shop (admittedly a small council where "everyboby knows your name"), the clerk would most likely take your word, and if there were any question, she would simply check Scoutnet.

To describe the situation, as reported, as inappropriate is the understatement of the year.

I understand that BSA is against homosexuals and bisexuals

This is an oversimplification.  The BSA's position, as it related to youth is more nuanced that that. However, there is no reasonable interpretation of the policy that would authorize the type of inquisition that is described here. The idea of five adults, in a closed room, confronting a 17 year old about rumors concerning his sexuality (especially in light of the fact that there appear to be no allegations of improper behavior in a scouting context), is beyond the pale.

Frankly, this inquisition, as described, borders on sexual harassment itself. I can't imagine what would make any leader that it is part of his job to inquire into the sexuality of a youth member. While there may not be anything in the YP guidelines directly addressing this, perhaps that is because one cannot foresee such outrageous conduct. However, I did find this, under the definition of sexual harassment, in BSA's YP guide for camp leadership:

Sexual harassment occurs when a member of the camp staff uses verbal or nonverbal communication to create a hostile environment by focusing on the sexuality of another person or the persons gender, and the attention is unwanted or unwelcome and is severe or pervasive enough to affect a persons work environment.

I recognize that this addresses conduct toward staff members, but if such conduct would be inappropriate between camp staff members, I can't understand how it could be appropriate between leaders and youth. If it were me, I would be going directly to the SE's desk with this.

The rest of the troop sits outside the scoutmaster's office

Your troop has an office for the SM?

Here is a good thread from a canoeing board:

http://www.bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=307109&forumID=18&confID=1

The most important thing is using lean meat and rinsing it to remove any fat left in order to stop it from getting rancid. There is no need to reconstitute it earlier in the day like you would for beans or stuff like that.

Could you imagine using the media of the day, bragging around the campfire, to tell your SM what you had been up to, "Wow can't wait to get home, sunday night partying with my girlfriend, her parents are out of town and they have a great liquor cabinet. "

I don't think the kids today posting this stuff on the web would do that either. But for some reason, despite their seeming broad knowledge of things technological, there is still a great naivety when it comes to the scope of who can see this stuff and how long is can hang around.

It's better to learn this in a helpful scouting context than later on when someone gets turned down on a college or job application because of it.

I agree with Moosetracker that this would be an excellent opportunity to educate the scout about the extent to which information he posts becomes public as well as the potential consequences of such postings on his future academic or employment possibilities. I also see no problem in discussing the un-scoutlike nature of what he posted.

Glad you had a good trip. I think once you get people out into Canoe Country, they're hooked for life.

What entry point & route did you use?

Like I said before, if we didn't live in the land of the suing happy lawyer, perhaps BSA wouldn't need such ridiculous rules.

Funny, I thought BSA came up with the Health & Safety rules in order to assist us with providing a safe program and reducing the chances of injury to those youth in our charge.

I sure wish there were consequences to frivolous suing

There are. Every state, and the federal court system have rules barring frivolous filings, and many allow fee shifting or other sanctions for it. Unfortunately, the example alluded to is not such a case. It involved a restaurant chain that made a decision to brew and serve coffee at a temprature just shy of boiling, despite the fact that such tempratures are not necessary to brew quality coffee. Lowering the temprature by even a few degrees, like most other restaurants and home coffee makers do, would have likley reduced the severity of injury. But that is a subject for an OT thread.

I came across this story today, about a 6 year old boy who was crushed to death by a soccer goal. According to the story, there have neen at least 10 other deaths over the last 10 years from similar occurrences.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/chicago/zack-law-soccer-safer-tragedy-114143583.html

Here is another story about another boy, who coincidentally was a cub scout:

http://www.4029tv.com/news/26631403/detail.html

Certainly, these represent far more youth fatalities than are caused by water guns, laser tag, etc. If National were truly concerned about safety, wouldn't they do something about this genuine risk involving a major part of their Scoutreach program rather than coming up the nonsensical rules that are often the subject of discussion here?

Generally, the harder a cheese is at refrigerated tempratures, the better it will do without refrigeration. Cheddar, especially if it comes in the wax coating seems to work really well. Smoked cheddar, if you can find it, has been my favorite. Gouda, if everone likes it is good too.

Here's a good discussion of the topic:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=7003

(This message has been edited by the blancmange)

I happen to notice these on the Scoutstuff site. If anyone wears a 2X or 3X, they are on close-out for $4.98:

http://www.scoutstuff.org/adult-fleece-cub-scout-vest.html

I guess with the new height/weight limits, there isn't much demand for these sizes anymore ;-)

The award recognizes scouts' participation in the summertime activities, not the adults' planning of them.

The shutdown was known at the beginning of the month (and a known possibility long before that). Certainly time to make alternative plans. Isn't there a county or local park where the activity could be moved? Some other good ideas for alternatives posted as well.(This message has been edited by the blancmange)

>>>>>I'd still be interested in seeing some proof of causation with regard to the Canadian scouts and increased inclusiveness, rather than just correlation.

>>>>>Sure there is, Campfire, Girl Scouts and Canadian Scouts. None of those organizations have ever got back to the numbers they had before they accepted gays. Why would the BSA be different?So if your CO chooses to keep the same policy on homosexuals, what will their reaction be when at a camporee or other large scouting event their children see openly homosexual leaders who are over their children?

Blancmange, thanks for pointing that out. even though the facebook page is a 'closed group', it is open to all members of the pack, which is similar to what scoutfish said.

Is that what it says? I don't know. There are only 3 privacy settings for a FB group: "open" "closed" or "secret." Is closed synonymous with private? A closed group requires an invitation to join, like the language they use for the You-Tube channels.

A policy from National that is subject to more than one possible interpretation? Say it ain't so!

DISCLAIMER: Again, by no means am I suggesting I think it would be a good idea to prohibit the type of group suggested here, but rather I am pointing out that is what the policy appears to do.

I'm no tax expert, but my understanding is that a non-profit cannot run too large of a surplus without placing it into an endowment or something similar. Again, I don't know the particulars, but at some point it could jeopardize your CO's non-profit status. It might be a good idea for your CO to review this situation with their accountant.

That's terribly sad. Prayers for the family.

On a side note, I don't see anything in the story that indicates the gentleman didn't have a proper pre-camp medical exam, or that if he had it would have made a difference. Many heart attacks occur in people who don't have any prior signs or symptoms.

I forgot to mention we also have a facebook page for the pack, just set it up as a 'closed group'.

You should be aware that this violates BSA's new Social Media Guidelines:

Therefore, no private channels (e.g., private Facebook groups or invite-only YouTube channels) are acceptable in helping to administer the Scouting program.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Marketing/Resources/SocialMedia.aspx

Note that I am not offering any opinion on whether this policy makes any sense or whether, from an outside standpoint, there is anything wrong with what you have done; I am merely pointing out the policy.

Learn something new everyday. As someone who is constantly in search of new and interesting ways to prepare ramen in the woods, I guess I may be one, too.

Some good recipes, as well as a few laughs here:

http://www.mattfischer.com/ramen/