Tampa Turtle

Engineer,

It does depend on the goal.

I came from a house that was a big believer in learning the material than the grades...better to stretch and get a B than stay in the comfort zone and get an A. Well I was a good B+ student who knew a lot about everything but didn't have good enough grades to get into the real competitive programs. But I enjoyed myself.

My son wants to go into the Military. Not my goal but his. Been like a laser since a wee lad. So he needs to stay physically fit, try to stay off disqualifying medication, and score high on the ASVAB to get into the slot he wants. As the ASVAB can be pretty demanding so we push him. He reaches his goals it just takes him a bit longer.

Gotta give the kid credit if I had to plow through the daily struggles he does I would have hung it up my now.

I think much of education now can be boring. It seems some of this, preach at them, have them fill in the blanks and color in the chart education has crept into Merit Badges. Big Mistake. I have boys come up to me (and I am not even their MB counselor) with a filled out Meritbadge.org worksheet saying "I have finished my Blah-blah Merit Badge" and I might say "The form is not the merit badge. Tell or show me what you have learned..." I get crazy looks.

Thankfully my son is not that way. He wants to do things.

Eagle707 no offense taken,

My son is, err, a little more complicated than average. So I explained a bit more.

As for grades it depends if he is applying himself. He had a C in one class that I thought he had zero chance in passing and I know he fought, fought for that C...I was very proud. And he made an A in a class he is clearly a C student. So this year he is doing the best he has ever done in school. And yes we push him and it is tough; for him to do 15 minutes homework takes him 2 hours. So his free time goes out the window. So I appreciate his work ethic...it will serve him well later in life.

Prioritization not punishment; I like that. Obviously we make Scouts a pretty high priority but school is his job. He does not always do sports because it conflicts with scouts.

I think that school was easier in my ways when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's. Sure as heck did not have as much homework and boring assignments (whats with all worksheets!) Kids are under a lot of pressure.

Gee guys I am kinda neutral on this...in seems interesting but I really don't know about OA much and frankly don't have the time to find out. I see the sashs on some of the boys and that is about it.

I feel a little more negative about OA now by this discourse. Probably not fair...

2cub...surgery by marriage. Snipped for over 27 years.

A good conversation, it is hard to have perspective on one's own kid...

As for 707's comments, he does see a Pediatric Neurologist and he came down on the no drugs side. We are also very active in the local and state Tourette's groups and keep up with the research. It is such a small population that their is very little drug research and the ones that folks have had limited results with I have seldom seen used more than a year. Tourettes probably shares the asbergers/autism genes and he is considered a moderate case at that (you might not spot his physical tics --it's the mental ones that get him).

I have always joked to teachers that he is like the borg on star trek. You try a strategy and it works...once. And he adapts or it changes or it is a good day vs bad day. But he is a good scout.

I think it is being 13 +hormones +tourettes +returning to middle school that is just blowing his fuse.

I do agree that taking away scouts as a punishment is a bad idea. Did it once and he still resents it. He is very, very active. He and his brother do as many "optional" activities as they can.

Personal Management MB is not a bad idea though he is supposed to maintain a school planner and put his scout stuff on that...which he does not seem capable of doing yet. In some ways he is 2 or more years behind in that kind of maturity.

And don't get me started about the girls....

Well SR540,

An interesting topic. We are in POR selection mode now and you need your parents approval to accept it. (If the folks aren't gonna drive 'em it probably not gonna happen)and I told him I wasn't gonna approve it.

As a former guy who worked with Senators and Congressman it is really Elites vs Elites. And any body who isn't one will become one. The power alone is intoxicating and corrupting.

As for fessing up before hand I am not sure that person would survive the process. We want people better than us not like us.

The cheating thing really, really bothers me. I was a Clinton man but there were those of us who thought he should have stepped down for "personal" reasons. I might vote for a guy who did that for Congress but President? Probably not.

I think Michaels or other craft stores sell little plastic train thingies (like for bracelets)

Something like this:

http://www.beadsandsupplies.com/train-plastic-beads-p-816.html?osCsid=d8a49e83640f12e07ddef8053d588bcf

They have $13 for 144.

You can thread some paracord through it and they can hang it on their button. Then they are "trained".

I got one at SM training. I wear it proudly.

Beavah (and others)

Thank you for the advice.

I will look at the book. My older son is extra-difficult as he has a host of disabilities that defeat any logical reward/punishment system. He has Tourettes and the usual tag-along cluster and, at least to other parents, the next couple years are the some of the hardest --a number of folks basically sent their kids to live out of the house. I guess the hormones make it worse. Just think a terrible beginning teenager and amp it up many times. To his credit he can hold it together at school (a good thing since other Touretters have been tased at school)so when he gets home watch out! Can't hold together all the time.

It would be OK if he would go off and blow off steam away from the family. But he wants to hang around with us while being verbally and threatens to be physically abusive.

My solace is he has had to overcome so much to do so many things we take for granted if he puts his mind to something he is very, very stubborn. Very self directed. Which means if he thinks TV watching is more important than doing anything else there is nothing you can do to deter his opinion. If we cab direct him on the right path I think he can find his way. But the last year is hell.

Scouting is great as a parent as I have other "normal" smart-a$$ 13 year olds to compare with. I can't say he is a whiner he thinks heat-exhaustion or hypothermia is for the weak. (Obviously I have to keep an eye that he learns his limits).

But he has had the same goal since he was a little boy of 5: be in Special Forces. So we have been trying to get him to adapt without meds and home schooled and all that stuff. But we said #1 job is school; he has gotta do the work.

Parenting is HARD work! When it is good it is really good and bad it is the depths.

The adults predigest the open weekends for the known conflicting calendars as well as Camp and Council activity dates (it is a lot of work) and present them as open slots for the boys to plan what they want.

Beavah,

I think scouts should be allowed Exocet MB practice on PWC...

As a Democrat who wants Obama re-elected (with reservations) I fear Romney the most and Gingrich the least. Feel free to select Newt.

JustAnotherScouter,

It is in the nature of committees to make changes, needed or not.

This has been said before but knots seem different between cubbing and scouting. Cubbies like to see the bling...it means you must be important somehow. Scouting is seems silly. (other than Eagle and Religious and a couple others...)

I took a lot of training at summer camp so that was a good excuse to stay away. I think my boys liked the idea I was in the area but not around.

Still as much as I like camping with the Troop it is good to sit some out.

I, the great and mighty turtle, am highly compartmentalized to reduce torpedo damage.

In our Troop (in the Pack Den Leader shad to hunt them down) we do send out a CYA email that unless we get an objection we will access the scout account unless we receive a payment. Many parents prefer it.

Barry,

Stop compartmentalizing Democrats or Liberals as some vast, stupid, monolithic group. It is why folks keep talking past each other. Its like saying all Catholics think the same way--it just aint so.

As for the media. While I would say there is some liberal bias I would say they are usually more shallow, lazy, and elitist than liberal. They they reduce complex issues into slogans and with smaller and younger news staffs they really do not have the time, resources, and expertise to do a good job.

This is directed toward you a parent. When would you not let your boy go to scouts?

My sons had not done their homework before the meeting and were told by SWMBO they could not go. A flurry of last hour work meant they squeaked under the wire. I would have gone anyway because I had a MB to talk about.

I am always a bit conflicted as Scouting is one of the only positive influence for him...but he has been bounced before for bad behavior. It is my boys #1 activity outside homework and church.

I was just wondering what other parents do.

I think it is an advantage to have a lot of adults but Lisa is right there is a real danger of interference to boy-led leadership.

I like my current SM's idea of the more you work the more he listens to your counsel. Vote with your feet. One of our worst helicopter parents contributes the least. He is not taken as seriously.

If Polaris or Yamaha want to donate $$$ to BSA we will see ATV trails all over the Summit.

I find it hard to be around one my sons at Camp. He behaves so badly that I feel I must step in and discipline him...I have to tell the other adults to PLEASE step in when they feel he needs it. I think we all tend to hang back a bit with another leaders son when the adult is there.

The last year he would seek me out at meal time and I sat next to him at the opening and close. Walked with him to the showers with him a couple time. I did not take him to his classes though I doubted he could find him due to his disabilities but he did fine.

Spent a lot of time telling him to go away from the adult area. The great irony of the parent-scouter: your wife thinks you are spending time with your son while you are spending your time telling to go away.

We have had a few boys who needed help. The committee will float a few obvious cases but it is expected that the boy will be active. We may expect some serious service projects. And our uniform closet could cloth 8 boys at any one time. You could also outfit yourself with the old lost and found. Once the boys "dad" was an ASM so we kinda took it in trade.

I know a few SM's have paid the way for a boy or two. A couple more who "paid" him to help out working on the scout hut.

Sadly this usually does not work out for us. The boy's parents are usually too embarrassed, or holding down multiple jobs make taking the boys attendance difficult. We are a pretty affluent Troop and I think some boys feel uncomfortable if they do not have all the expensive camping gear, etc. (which is why I make a big show of my homebuilt or scavenged stuff) I know I personally have spent a lot of time trying to help some of these boys and it is always real sad when you lose one. Real sad. Economy in Tampa still pretty terrible.

I do not make a lot of money and Scouting is our family's major recreational expense. I have tried to be the voice of reason during our trip planning to include a mix of expensive and cheap trips so not to exclude boys all the time. That "Thrifty" really come in handy!

(This is not my area --just overheard) I think my Troop takes it out of the Scout Account if their is no response.

Oh dang walked right into that!

Like I said on another thread you can measure the quality of the patrols in our Troop by how far they camp from the adults. Just as well don't trust some of those close-in folks.