Tampa Turtle

Eagle92,

I agree with you. It started with 1 year, and then typically 8 months, so why not 4? It is an arbitrary goal.

For me:

(1) Webelos - They are gelling as a group and getting to the fun stuff.

(2) Tigers - They are so cute and easy to impress.

(3) Bears - Getting better

(4) Wolf - I always found it a tough year between the requirements, parents, and scheduling.

For Boy Scouts

(1) Newbies - I do enjoy working with them and parents in getting into the program.

(2) 1st Class - know enough to be dangerous but still really into program.

(3) Star - the bad ones are starting to drop out.

The occasional exceptional 13 year old is OK but when it is the norm then the Eagle rank is too watered down. We do want to keep the boys as long as possible...

It is an old topic but I heard our Troop was had an issue with a SM who was a LEO and could not commit to camping. He was a fine SM but did it on the condition that the ASM's took the boy camping. Another troop has a rather senior SM who does not camp much but makes sure the Troop does. While less than ideal you can have a outdoor program with a non-camping SM. (though he better be darn good at the other stuff)

Moose,

It was a "suggested" schedule that showed how you could "check off" more than 30--thats right 30- requirements in one campout by careful planning. It was presented by a BSA trainer who helped write a lot of training material for national.

I was told BSA policy was "don't hold em back, advance 'em as fast you can".

When I said "what if every boy turns into a 13 year old Eagle?" I got "whats wrong with that?".

It was mentioned in my Scoutmaster training a Woodruff SR. In fact I got static when I protested the accelerated T-1 in 4 months schedule handed out.

In our Troop we instituted T-1 with about 20 boys and 90% of them made it. We are two years in and most still lack basic skills--they just weren't ready for it and really are just too young at Star/Life. They just need more time to season...

Funny the less color seems to make it look more like Military field uniforms in IMHO.

As to boys angling to shorten requirements; it reminds me of a (paraphrased) line from a play I saw (might have been carousel--it was a girl talking about her amorous boyfriend)

"Boys will try and try but it is we who must deny!"

Sigh...I wish our cabal of defectors would just hurry up and defect...

I think we lose a few to more adult led spit-and-polish Troops. We gain a few from parents (often military) who have been in those Troops and flee them. Lose about 20% of cross-overs to sports, boys are usually just getting into the better teams by then and the parents are concerned about the time commitment. About 10% of boys don't come because parents are tired/not ready to let boys go off alone/boys hate camping/dislike BSA.

Talked to a parent last night who was frustrated that their boy hated camping. I probed if it was a tent-buddy/personal/bully issue but it seems he really prefers to sleep inside with electronics not in a tent. Parent wants him to enjoy it but doesn't. Considering moving to another Troop. I explained that we are an outdoor-oriented Troop and that is an issue...some Troops camp less but even at that it is a big part of scouting.

IMHO the grass is greener syndrome is true to church, work, scout groups:

(1) Adults b*t*ch a lot but few actually leave. There is a cost to leaving the familiar and most folks are wedded to the routine. It will always seem better somewhere else.

(2) Once folks have left they usually stay where they went. They have paid a cost to leave and maybe burned a bridge or too.

(3) When it comes to their kids these days parents are much more aggressive in seeking out the "optimal" youth experience for the boy be it scouts, Sunday school, public school, or sports. A certain minority will shop and move; once they start it gets easier.

LisaBob,

I share your frustration. My 13 year old is dragging on advancement and partial MB's. Really just wants to camp and do the exciting stuff. Occasionally is ambitious and is pretty disorganized...probably a normal 13 year old. On the other hand he retains the stuff he has learned.

I think the easy MB's and FCFY does erode the motivation for the older boys. The MB's seem to not mean that much beyond your folks were willing to drive you to the District MB class and pay the fee. Most of the weak campers who made 1st Class last year and are almost Star seem to be forgetting the basics.

I find it interesting what my two boys pick for their Merit Badges. Son #1 picks Survival, Hiking, Shooting, Rowing, etc. Son #2 does Plumbing, Cooking, Painting. For variety of subject matter the MB's can't be beat. However BSA has taken the fun out of them. Survival is pretty boring, Camping now is mostly list making, and Cooking seems to involve not as much cooking as you might think.

Our Troop provided a color guard at an ALF on Veteran's Day. Eagle Scout in charge got a little flustered since the cramped room made them do a side entrance. Lots of discussion of "proper" way; told them MAIN THING is to be respectful.

JBlake,

Thanks. When the Girl Scouts break our Square I will know what to say.

One time when we tried to get the Troop together at Summer Camp I actually yelled "rally 'round the flag, boys" and heard a newbie yell "to the Troop flag, to the Troop flag!".

Coulda just said "stand by the Scoutmaster" but it just wasn't the same.

I thought (thank goodness the Ad changed to something camping related)that the call "To the Colors" originated as a battlefield rally signal.

Couldn't document it though. I am sure we have some resident experts here.

I could be wrong (the Bad Ideas T-Shirt Girl is distracting me) but I thought it was because in the old days the Color Guard guarded the colors (all the regiments flags) during a battle. This would include the Regimental Standard as well as the National Flag. Plural as in more than one.

When we do a Flag Ceremony we usually have the US Flag as well as a State, Pack, or Troop flag.

Parents-I said maybe.

Some are great and do yeo-mans work in supporting outing, fund raisers, and committee work. I think we are fortunate in having a good parent culture. I'd say 20-30% of parents.

Some are bad. We haven't had any out and out thieves. We have had some real PIA who are only concerned with their kids advancement at the expense of anything else, and don't help much either. A few of these may be leaving us soon anyway because they STILL are not getting enough. I'd say 10-15%.

The rest are somewhere in the middle.

Bart,

In the Tampa area if we had to cancel for lightning we would have to cancel all the time. We get a LOT of storms; hence some of our team names (Tampa Bay Lightning, Tampa Bay Storm, etc. Usually we avoid water, etc if lightning is visible.

We have to be much more careful with cold as folks just are not prepared for it.

That was good advice. I have found the Hennessy stock tarp fine; it looks too small but if there is driving rain I just drop the fly tighter. There are times I would like a bigger fly just to hide under while doing other stuff.

The biggest thing to learn at first is finding the right height to hang it and tension on the lines.

I say again, practice at home first. The first time to unpack it should not be Friday night in the dark. Been there, done that.

I don't mind the HA emphasis, the "County Fair" aspect of some Jambos and Camporees kinda turn me off. I probably am not fit enough to do some of the activities (though I am working on it)

For the amount of money I rather help pay for a backpacking trip to Europe as well...

I have my "personal" first aid kit I can jam in a pocket or attach to my belt, a bigger one (size of an otter box) I might leave at base camp, and we have a big Troop one.

I like what some Troops have done and having a "health officer" position who carries and maintains a Patrol first-aid kit on hikes.

That looks like a good start to see if you like it. I recommend practicing setting it up in the backyard first and laying in it for a while.

My Hennesy had a weight limit of 250 when I weighed 235...good incentive to lose more weight.

I believe the weight limit is usually for the fabric, the line is usually rated for much higher...

Troop and Pack Parents: Usually

KD9,

I do not know how much of my feelings are based on facts or prejudice. I do think that when one goes up the food chain there is a sense of less and less input into the process. The communication does not seem to be two-way. When that happens it is very easy to get into an us vs them attitude.

"Lord Baden-Powell", the reporter asked, "Be Prepared for what?"

"Why...to be rescued of course!"

I trust the volunteer Scouters more. Fair or not I realize how much personal sweat equity they put into scouting while for many some of the "pros" I have met it seems like just a job.

I distrust national sometimes it seems so disconnected with what we do. I see more and more profiles of rich donors and less of life-long scouters, more very expensive scouting gear and almost no DIY gear projects. More and more corporate jargon--I get enough of that at work.

From the boys and parents I interact with I get the occasional attaboy; from national I get more changes and demands and new programming. Usually taking and not giving.

Council and District --I know the District guys but that changes on a regular basis, the council seems as much an impediment as a help.

It's not like I agree with the other Scouters I meet. Just like on this forum there is often a good argument to be made by doing something another way and good scouters can agree to disagree. But I feel National in particular is drifting more and more away from its roots and hurting "the brand" that it's top leaders make so much money from...

In the meantime I try to work the circle of influence that I can from within my Troop.

Good lesson. I usually also bring a rain-jacket/windbreaker in a pouch and my walking stick.

Ever since my I have gotten serious about managing my Diabetes (which hiking is great for) I have gotten better at planning and preparation; my conditions can get more serious quickly than before.