SSScout

4 hours ago, FireStone said:

To me, this is copyright infringement.

I don't think you can copyright a color.  Otherwise, all the Walmart cargo pants would be an infringement.  The BSA buttons with the BSA Eagle Fleur de Lis are a copyright issue, but the GSUSA gets past that with their GS Trefoil... 

Look at the Rose Bowl Parade videos , with the Gold Award Scouts marching with the Eagle Scouts.  Similar uniforms?   Stretch your imagination, maybe.  But what a concept !  GSs working with BSs ! 

I think BSA has bigger problems than worrying about a purple golf shirt under a tan cargo vest over  dark green cargo pants/skirt......

All kids (ALL kids) want to belong to a gang. A club.  Whether that gang creates something or destroys something is the question.   That gang of kids in the vacant lot (not too many of them left) that shagged a bat and chose up teams is one such.  The gang that self forms and because they all came from the same country is another (Sharks? Jets? ). The older kids are looked up to by the younger.  The younger learn how the game is played by watching the older kids.

MS13?  Scouts?  What really is the difference between the two? Who got to the kid first?  

The Patrol Method works, and it HAS to work without the interference of adults.  That is the problem with the New Scout Patrol.  Where is the continuity?  I was in THE Eagle Patrol for six years !   Loyalty was endemic . We passed on responsibility because we saw it modeled by the older Scouts AND the adults.   The chance to EARN rank was just that, a chance, up to us.  The hikes, campouts, summer camps were opportunities to learn, practice skills, and earn the ranks.  The adults MADE the opportunities, they did not require we use them.  We had a choice thereby.   

The previous discussion seems to be about the idea that often, today's Scout doesn't have the chance to fail, the choice is already made for him/her.  You HAVE to succeed, it is required.  The skills are taught, the MBs are schooled, the campouts aren't so much about getting out and  seeing if you read that part of the Handbook for Boys (!) about keeping warm in cold weather (mom wil make sure I have my mittens, right?) as they are about earning (earning?) First Class by year one.....

What was it the 2nd grader said?  "It's not FAIR ! !"   How'd he know that? 

13 hours ago, Eagledad said:

. Our troop did car washes for donations. Some of those donations were over $100. Only a few were less than $20 at a time when $5 was a the most anyone would pay at a commercial car wash.

Donations?  Did the Scouts wash/dry/vacuum the car out?   Did they do a service for the "donation"?   What was a carwash worth to the washee?   The Scouts still DID a service.  

Placing US flags on your front lawn during a holiday and retrieving them later. 

Buying and having the Scout(s) spread mulch/wood chips for you...

I once saw a Cub Pack do a "tent set up demo" at a shopping mall . For a price ( ?$5. sticks in my mind) the Cubs would set up a tent  for the payee.  Your choice of tents, I think.  It was fun watching the Cubs rip the parts out of the bag and get the tent up in minutes.  It was a "service", an entertainment if you will, but the Cubs worked to earn those bucks.   Did folks throw some extra into the pot? Sure, but the price was posted. Then they took it down, repacked it in the bag and waited for the next customer......

Christmas trees and "holiday decor" . . . prices were usually about the same as at the Lion's Club stand or even Home Depooo, but one had a choice of tree and seller.  Capitalism rampant.  

The idea is the Scout needs to take some responsibility for the cost of camping, yes?  

Council buys and maintains the camp (we hope). That takes big(ger) bucks than operating a Pack or Troop.   Sense of scale and experience.   

Earning is still different than asking for money.  A Scout should early on (from family?)  learn/discover the connection between effort and reward.  

I had (and so did our kids) an "allowance".  It was , yes, a gift, but it had strings.  Chores to help the family home along.  Learn to budget and save.  They are off as adults and all doing well, thank you.   See my previous post/answer.   The BSA has enough present trouble without being thought of as purely a poor "charity" of kids who can't afford to go to camp on their own. 

*sigh*  "" It depends"  (always).

One of my courses was a "set up your Patrol Camp" (bring your tent)   type.  One was in a just vacated summer camp and the tent platforms were still up. (two to   tent). One was we come in and Set Up Our Tent Platform prior to the summer camp.   

None were expected to be a Philmont hike to the site camp with all your gear on your back type.  The concentration is (or was !) on Scout Leadership,  not so much Scout Skills Demonstrating... 

2 hours ago, DuctTape said:

When I taught woods tools it was immediately before the firebuilding station. I had the participants bring the wood, kindling, etc... they processed from my area to the next.

Eggs axe lee

Contact Hosteling International . . .   Used to be American Youth Hostels.  They are still in business, and would be glad to talk to you about "licensing" the site.  It has to beowned by SOMEBODY, and lived in for responsibility and care....  https://www.hiusa.org/   

When I first assisted teaching IOLS, I suggested to my professor that we include some copied pages from my 1959 edition FieldBook.  He agreed, and those pages have been included in every IOLS syllabus since.   I once assisted another districts IOLS, and when I noticed they had their campfire building before the  Wood's Tools, and shouldn't the Scout learn to use his axe BEFORE he cuts up firewood, they said "we never noticed that....".  

""If possible"" . . . Keep good notes. Document episodes.   Have you spoken with other Scout parents/Scouts?   Have others seen/heard/experienced similar events?   

My suggestions for order to pursue:::

1)  Troop Key Three ( COR,  Committee Chair,   Scoutmaster) and Committee.    Polite conversation, show them the BSA Advancement Guide, G2SS,  Brian on Scouting, this website.... whatever is germane.     Involve the IH  lastly ....    Smile and wave...

2)  Assigned Unit Commissioner.   Conversation, do you HAVE one....   Perhaps your interpretation is incorrect?   Make sure....Discuss general Troop/Scout culture.  Is the particular situation indicative of other problems?  Personal personnel issues?  Egoes involved?  

3)  District Advancement Chair....   Has this happened before locally?   Ramifications for the Scout's (Scouts' ) future?  Record keeping? 

4)  Council  Advancement chair?  Council's attitude will be that this is a "local" issue.  IH and COR have jurisdiction unless there are serious YP issues.   Keep things on a  polite, factual  level. 

Good Scouting to you.   If enough parents/Scouts see the same problems,  and several  express reason to  "jump ship" to another unit,  the message might get thru......

What he said.   Pay attention to everything they send you.   Ask questions as needed.   Bring extra rope, duct tape, and a silly hat.   And if you are so skilled, your bugle.  Have fun. 

My opinions:

1) Do not donate to any council, encumbered, conditioned or free in clear. See above mentions.

2) Organize a non-profit trustee type foundation, dedicated to "Scouting".  Find a good, Scout Friendly lawyer to set things up pro bono. The properties could be leased back to the Council for summer camp and rented to Troops/Packs for their use. The Trust could log the land or rent it out to other "educational" users, county rec department,  school districts, colleges, etc. and make a little income thereby. Make it a Nature Preserve.  Camp Store?  Boat ramp fees?  Any professional outfitters, boat renters around?  What's on the opposite shore?   

2)A)....Multiple Troops?  I do not think I would try to divide the ownership, that only complicates things.   The trustee Board can have required members from several sources.  Talk it over.  Private cemeteries  and other campgrounds are set up this way.  

3) Find a Scout CO that already charters a Unit that might fulfill the Trust idea above.  Lions Club? Kiwanis?  Isaac Walton?   Rotary?   Church (?) ?  

4) When one of the above options is in place,  (or before?)  work with the local OA chapter(s)  and District Eagle  coordinators to find project help in developing the cabins tent sites etc. needed.   

I think this is a wonderful opportunity.  I hope you can find the support to make it happen.   

We have a "public Park " nearby that is locally known as "Mount Sugarloaf". It is used for hikes,  picnics, rock climbing classes, OA events.... Legally it is known as "The Stronghold"  , established by a rich department store owner back in the 1930's.   See this:   http://www.sugarloafmd.com/   

On 8/18/2020 at 10:04 AM, qwazse said:

and they won’t miss flavor or presentation.

Oui, le sauce e tout....

WB was a good experience, learned some taught some,  exampled some.... Blew bugle some....

First time, When I presented my ticket ideas, everyone said they were good/great, BUT . . . I couldn't do them.   Why?   Well. in my past Scout time, I had done alot of Cub Scout stuff, and so at the CSDC, I earned the position of "First Assistant Everything Else" (wife was CSDC Director), so many of my tickets were Cub Scout directed.  But at the time, I was "officially " registered as a Assistant Scoutmaster.  Scoutmaster types CAN'T do Cub Scout things...  What to do?   The WB staff huddled and came back ::  "You should be a COMMISSIONER !! They can work in ANY program !"  Great ! What's a Commissioner ? Within 48 hours, I was a registered, bonafide  Commishner. 

And the rest, as they say, is prolog.....

Sure evokes the BSA look...   shoulder loop/epaulettes (color loops for Daisy, Brownie, Cadette, Senior? ? ), tan over green,  got the flag over right pocket, service stars, cargo pockets.....  Lavender shirt might not be BSA...   

1 hour ago, qwazse said:

That and deep fried chocolate chip cookies.

Can include veggies and such in the batter?  No transfat?  Wife would favor gluten free.... 

How to gain respect:

Be able to admit and say "I don't know"  and "I will find out."  

I am reminded of the scene in Master and Commander when the 12 or 13 year old Midshipman, who has already lost an arm in a battle, asks the old sailor for help n sewing up the sail around one of his dead friends. 

16 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

Get the right hat and neckerchief. Get the official slide. If lost, get a replacement that matches your current program. For the belt, just get the wolf buckle. Never get the tiger socks. 

" If lost...."   MAKE YOUR OWN !      Carve,  mold, weave, glue,  scratch head and design and MAKE YOUR WOGGLE !  

Faith and Chaplaincy?  

When I served as a Jamboree Chaplain,  I met more than one Scout that expressed the idea/concern/opinion of "I'm not so sure about this God stuff."   We would have a VERY open ended conversation .  Scoutmasters that required their Troop to attend some religious service, if only for "educational" purposes, was  an idea that raised some questions in my mind.  Pick a service, I don't care what , just go. 

 The idea that atheism is NOT a religion is always interesting.  The idea that belief in a "higher power"  delineates a sub group (large tho it may be) that must totally exclude folks that cannot in good conscience promise to "do my duty to God"  also makes for a good discussion.  Then too, we have the not-too-sure agnostic label.    

Perhaps a choice of Scout Promise is a good thing, an inclusive thing, maybe.   I have come to say that there are really FOUR promises in the BSA promise, anyhow, rather than the THREE that are mentioned in the Handbook explanation.   After all, we promise to "do my duty to God,  to our country, to others and to myself.     Country and God should NOT be one and the same, yes? 

Checks. Cheques.       

True story:   Second World War.  American army officer.   Goes into a  British army officers' club as a guest.   For cash, he writes a "cheque" on a plain piece of paper (sometimes said to be the back of a cigarette package, but no matter), to be drawn on a local (to me) US bank.   The bank is so well known, (in Britain!) that the cheque is honored, and makes it's way, all the way, , back to the USA where it was , for a time, displayed in the bank. 

Oh, let me share a coin  horror story.

While working as a Transit Bus Driver, in rush hour, it was not unusual for folks to pay the fare with a handful of coins, carefully dribbled into the electric farebox. I had a lady board and proceed to unroll a penny roll and carefully line'm up into the slot. It took a few seconds for me to realize THEY WERE BRIGHT UNCIRCULATED STEEL CENTS.  I put my hand over the farebox and asked her where she had got that roll.  She responded out of her husbands desk drawer, as she needed money for the farebox.  I explained to her that each of those "pennies"  were probably worth a couple of dollars EACH.  She still had about 2/3 of the roll left, but I explained that neither I nor her would ever see those pennies again..... 

Yep.  I earned that MB.  One of my "specialties" was the Franklin half dollar.  My dad had dealings with our local bank, and one of the tellers (wife of a Lion's Club member, in which my dad was very active) had nothing much to do one afternoon (!) and took it upon herself to scan several hundred (!!) dollars worth of halves and found the one date I was looking for....   

There goes my dividend.... 

8 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

My first B&G as Cubmaster is tomorrow night.  (Better late than never).  Its going to be outside and spread out.  Im planning on ending with Scout Vespers and the the Scoutmasters Benediction.  Is that corny or is that the sort of thing we should be doing more of??  I do tend to second guess myself a lot.

Good on ya, mate.   My stints as Cubmaster and "First Assistant Everything Else"  for CSDC are some of the most fun I have ever had.   I still run across some of the "boys" in my travels and am remembered. One CUB made Eagle , is now head cashier at my  local bank . 

Not my story, but I can claim some credit.  One year, the CSDC theme was "Way Out West" and our District decided to tell the story of the Lewis and Clark expedition.  My partner, name of Ted, and I were the chief instigators.  Every morning at opening, we would "tell " a story about the L&C trek, and thus set the theme for the day.  We thus moved the expedition across the country. Ted did a cartoon French Voyageur accent ("augh augh augh, you tie ze  nout laak zis, an' zen you peek heem up laak zis,,,   augh augh augh, mes ami....") . We carried a canoe around the site, led the Scout Skills Pavilion to good effect. 

Ted once told me he and family were in the local Safeway when a young boy ran up to him, pointed his finger up at Ted, cried  "AUGH AUGH AUGH ! ! !"    and ran off.    Of such are reputations and memories made....

Lead your song.  Help the Scouts make the memories. 

AND... never forget , these are the people that will pick out your Assisted Living Facility. 

See you on the trail. 

Oh for the days of yore...

My Cub Pack, back in paleolithic Scouting days,  played in a Cub Scout softball league. Each Pack in the area fielded a team, I seem to remember this was spring time and thru the summer too. Ribbons for the flag.  Tshirts and a REAL ball cap (wool !) for the Cubs.  This was in addition to the usual Den meetings, trips to the zoo, hay rides, fire station visits,  and movies, Cub-a-rees,  and Pack Meetings . My dad was one of the coaches, I was a first baseman owing (so they said) to my long arms (at age 8 and 9?) and reach.   

Competition with Little League?  Maybe,  it was softball, not hardball. Even I learned the softball didn't travel as far as a hardball when hit, but it did travel.   We learned alot about sportsmanship and tactics and predicting where that "lefty" would hit. 

No more Scout sports, eh?  Too bad...