bigbovine

This is what I was wondering,. Seems to be more personal preferance than actually use for the most part. Didn't know if it was just me or not. I like shorts, I just prefer to wear pants. The socks to the knee I do under my pants wearing boots, but I just do not see me wearing them to the knee with shorts. Once again, just my preferance. By the way, camp temps hovering at 100 next week and I will only be wearing shorts to swim.

Not to start anything (This isn't really that big of a deal, but you never know), Does anyone else out there wear pants in the Summer. Was just reading a post from another thread, and this was mentioned "Pants not shorts? I guess the troop never goes outdoors during the summer and hasn't heard of switchbacks." To each their own, but in the Troop I am in now, almost all the boys wear pants unless they go swimming. I am the same. Aside from swimming, the only time I usually wear shorts is when I am running. Even in the mid 90 temps we've had this week, I always wear pants. I am not saying one way is better, just that in some areas people don't wear shorts much. I especially like to wear pants when out in the woods hiking and such. As far as I am concerned, there is not much difference in how cool they wear and they offer more protection(or at least the trade-offs seem bearable). I was wondering, is there a time in your oppinion that shorts have a "true/real" benefit to the wearer over pants. As a side, I do not have switchbacks and understand there benefits. I may actually get some in the future. But, I like what seems to be the "more durable" canvas pants, even with the drawbacks compared to the Switchbacks in warmer/wetter weather. No wrong answers here, I am just wanting to know if there is something I am missing. Thanks.

I just wrote a long letter to you Scoutnut, but then deleted it, not worth the effort. If you read what I wrote you would not have taken it the way you did. To answer what you said, First, Safety is my main concern and what I have seen and been told, Red flags have been raised. I do not care who or what you say you are, If I do not know you, you are not taking my 12/13 year old with you. I don't care how "Trustworthy" someone says you are. Second, I am sorry, but there was an outing one weekend earlier this year. It was 2 and a half hours away. My friend went, that is how I know. Third, The Scouts offer it, I as a SM will not hide or discourage participation. However it is up to each parent to decide what they will do. And by the way, Helicopter I am not, and how you can get that idea from my being cautious on something like this worries me about the children you are responsible for.

First of all, I am not in the OA. When I first came to scouting a few years ago, I had never heard of it. I had not even seen them until the AOL ceremony last year for my first two boys. At that time I became interested in the goings on. The Troop my boys joined have no involvement with the OA and would like to keep it that way. Since then, the SM has pretty much ordained me as the next SM. I explained to him a few things I would like to change in how things were done if I took over, one of these being OA involvement. There is no problem with it, he and the other leaders just didn't want anything to do with it. Over the last year I have researched the OA, purchased their handbook and read, asked questions of OA members(Including a friend of mine), and done more research. As far as I am concerned, the way things are run and done in the OA are pretty much the same as the things done in Scouts, maybe a step up in responsibility. I have actually told people that the boys should be doing the stuff the OA claims they do anyway. But as far as I am concerned, If it is offered to the boys, then they should have the opportunity to be involved. With all that being said, My boys will not be involved unless I am a member also, and I still haven't made my decision on that yet. Say what you want, deny it if you wish, but It was explained to me that I was not allowed in any meetings unless I was a member. So I then said, "If I have to take my boy to an OA camping event that was 3 to 4 hours away, and there is no other way for him to get there except by me, are you saying I cannot stay the weekend also?" Answer from OA member "You are not a member, you will not be allowed. He will either have to find another way there or not go at all." I understand that my experience may not be the norm, and that this may just be someones opinion and not the rule. Be that as it may, it seems to be the mentality of those I meet in my area that are involved with the OA. Once again If I become SM, I will allow the OA to be involved with the Troop. If it is a part of scouts, the boys should be allowed the chance to participate. If I had a real problem with the internal goings on of the OA, I would also have to be suspect of the Scouts in general. Thats my opinion.

As a side note. I got that bugle alarm and bugle app, even put it as a ringtone. I just love listening to that.

I am glad to see this brought back up again. I purchased a Kanstul for the boys after checking around. They haven't started the MB yet, but they have enjoyed blowing it at camp in the mornings. The new boys got to hear it last month and they went nuts. I figure someone will take it up, and that will be well worth the money spent.(I got the Kanstul in case someone got good enough to do ceremony.)

I have had similar thoughts. I really enjoy Scouts, but sometimes wonder if my boys and I could do more "stuff" on our own as a family with the wife and daughter also. Less cost, less hassle, more flexible time, etc.... The main reason We haven't done so, is the boys get that extra interaction with others their age, and I enjoy the companionship of other adults with similar ideals. But as has been said, they get the same within a churches youth group. With the added benefit of not taking up as much family time. So it does leave one to wonder, why would it not be better to help with your youth group and do camping on your own(With friends if you want the companionship)

I haven't got an Osprey, but looked heavily into them for me and my sons. Great packs, but ended up getting a Gregory for myself. Had nothing to do with anything but comfort. Got the REI for one of my sons, and for the same reason. That being said, the price is worth what you use. My pack will last as long as it stays together.

I must say I am glad that this thread has risen from the depths. I was once interested in kilts but nothing for me in area. Only recently was able to obtain high speed internet. Because of this and the thread, I have revived an old yearning to learn more of my "Background". It's kinda funny because the wife said if she was in the same room as a man with a kilt, she was in the wrong place. Guess she better get used to being in strange places! Even my brother says he is game. Talked with my mother today and learned that a cousin is actually in the process of getting info and pictures together. I have got Scott, Irish, and Cherokee in my background. Maybe some day I will learn the details, and find my Tartan if I can claim one. Otherwise, I will have to settle with Woodbadge.

Life-Scout-Ldr, the Troop my boys are in pretty much only wear Uniform Shirt during Flag raising and other "important" activities, otherwise it is the Activity Shirt. I do wish they wore the Uniform Shirt more often, but as they say, the boys have decided on this. But at least they are identified. That is really my only major thing to say about uniforming of any type. If you are proud of what you represent, show who you are with. Whether Activity or Uniform Shirt is worn, at least you are "Identifiable" to the public. Even if it is a regular old BSA shirt of some kind, at least you will be seen as being part of the Scouts. I would even go as far as saying it would suffice to get a cheap T-Shirt and putting something as simple as BSA on it.

I really like what Life-Scout-Ldr had to say on this. I am really at odds with myself on Uniform. Boys and Leaders look great in full uniform. Boys can really wear out a nice pair of pants. All that aside, I was just looking at a local HAM sites pictures when I noticed a heading for scouts receiving their MB from them. I am sorry, but a few boys half unifomed along with the rest just in street clothes seems wrong. This is a time for representation and receiving something well earned, and thats all they can do. It looked like just a bunch of kids with a few scouts in there. All street would have looked better than a mixture. They could at least have worn a "class B" to show they represented their Troop. Are they embarrased to show who they are? I am not all that worried about the official shirt being worn all the time, but I do beleive we should be "IDENTIFIABLE" to the public.

Just got that and the 3rd edition 2 volume SMHB. Haven't started reading yet, but both were highly recomended to me.

Just thought that since my other posts seem to deal with problems, I would throw some Happy news out there. Just ordered a bugle from "scoutbugle.com". One of my boys has shown an interest, not sure if because I have been looking into it for myself or just purely on his own. I decided to go ahead and take the leap, and if he takes it up, even better. Cannot wait, I love learning new things. Maybe one of us will be good enough to replace the CD and Boombox they used the few times we have heard bugling.

Hey guys thanks for the input. What jtswestark says is kind of what I was needing to know. I love the work but do not want to be doing this alone. I fully understand it takes several people to make things go right. I am actually trying to talk the SM into staying as SM but with less on his shoulders. He also heads up a shooting team, and I told him I would take up where he cannot. However, I still feel like there needs to be at least one other "active adult". I am working on a guy I met last year in Cubs but he will be another 2 years, his son just moved into WEBELOS. The other WEBELOS dads are a no go, they are burned out already. But your suggestions give me a good place to start. I never thought of recent scouts.

For those reading this and not familiar with what I have asked recently, a little background. I am fairly new to scouting with 2 boys just joining Troop, 1 boy as Webelo2 in Pack, and 1 that I haven't decided on Tiger in 1 year from now. The Scoutmaster has asked if I would be his replacement. I am the only really active adult with children in the Troop. There is one adult on Committee that is somewhat active(I beleive he was past SM). There are only 8 boys in Troop, 5 of which are regular until sports are over then we usaully see 7(1 is not active). I love working with children, but I also understand that my Family comes first. I do not mind having to take role as SM if need be, but I do not wish to be the sole active adult seeking that 2 deep for every outing. The current SM says he would hate to see the Troop go under, but I wonder at what expense to the boys. It is great to have choices for Troops that the boys can join. My question is, when is it a good time if ever to dissolve a Troop and/or join another? The reason I ask is I see other Troops with more boys and adults. It seems they have less problem getting 2 deep leadership. Their problems usually are getting boys to participate or transportation issues. I like the small group,I realy like the SM and the parents of the boys, but I also feel that the boys are missing out on "Patrol" experience. I am not going to make them change troops, they seem to enjoy it where they are. However, I do not think I can give the time required to run a Troop by myself. If I do not become SM then what will happen. I also wonder if I have the time or resources to build this Troop up, even with help. Who should this be disscused with? The Committee Chair(past SM), current SM, past SM who is on Committee, one other Committee member, Other parents in the group, COR(Not sure if this is also the current CC since nobody has mentioned, I plan to ask who it is)?

Thank you for the input so far. As far as son in Tiger I have a few things to say. 1: I refuse to put myself into a situation I "knowingly" cannot commit properly to. 2: The wife and daughter have their time together while we do scouts, this is my 4 boys "guy time" so to say.(Except the youngest one, he still has mom time while we are gone) 3: I work a family buisiness as well as family farm, I can take off when I need to within reason (Rain and Hay don't play favorites). 4: Locations are seperate but times are same for meetings(They are 10 miles apart). I just absolutely refuse to put myself in the situation I see so many people getting into. Run, Run, Run, just to keep the children involved. They run themselves to death. My wife and I have given up a lot of extra activities since the children came into our lives. We regret none of it. The time spent on scouts is not that great compared to what others spend on year round sports. And from what I have seen so far, the time and money is much better spent. As far as Summer Camp is concerned, I cannot be there this year. And I know I should know this, but what exactly is Roundtable, who is involved, and what is it's purpose? Is it similar to "Cracker Barrel" at Camporee? As a side note, what is your opinion on a trip to Philmont? When I learned of the place, I thought it would be a great experience. I still do, but the cost seems steep. Is it really worth the cost and effort? Or can a Troop do something similar in the Eastern States that would be more cost effective but still challenging, such as the AT? Once again, Thank you!

As far as ASM, That was my intentions for the current SM. I had just joined and could tell it was needed. I just had't been there long enough to know how bad it was. No ASM for 4 or 5 years. I was probably 2 years too late. From what I can see that would be rough. I have been talking to the other adults about joining as ASM's with me, but not getting any response. That is why I am trying to increase numbers. As far as active with Troop and getting along with the boys, that is already happening. I attend all meetings, campouts, and committee meetings. I told my wife last year in Cub Scouts that if our boys ever decide to quit I would stay, because I love working with kids and I love camping. I have already built what relationships I can with the parents, 3 of them in all. The boys also seem to enjoy me being at the campouts and meetings. We shall see when the new wears off. Which has brought me to anoher critical decision. I would love to, and have almost promised to the CM of the Pack we were in, that I would at least stay on Pack Committee and do the campouts so they would have a Trained Leader(BALLOO and Hazardous Weather). I also have a younger son that will be Tiger age in 1 year. If you read previous thread, I am not too keen on a lot of organized activities for youngsters. However, he has seen the other three in Scouts and is dying to be one too (This guy really pulls on the Heartstrings, I am usually pretty stern). I really feel like if I take on SM there is no way for him to join till up around WEBELOS, which suits me fine, thats how the other three have done it. Unless anyone sees a way around this situation?

If you are responding to what I just posted above, please go to the new post I started. Thanks.

I decided to bring this to a new thread because I am afraid things may get mixed up with what was being discussed there. Once again thanks for everyones input. I would like to remind that I am fairly new to the Scouting scene. One thing that has been mentioned I really like/ find very informative, is the WEBELOS program. The pack my boys were in does 2 campouts a year, one Cave camping, and summer camp. That means car camping with the adults doing the work. The just stepping in CM, who was ACM last year, did much in trying to involve the older boys in more scout like activities during the outings. However there was no seperate WEBELOS campouts. My boys ended up doing several campouts with the Troop they are now in to get their requirements. I am going to try to get the new WEB 2 group to do some actual camping outside the Pack Campouts this next year. As I also said, the current SM wants to step down in a year, wanting me to be his replacement. This is weighing heavily on my mind, and I am trying to get all the training I can under my belt so I can make a better decision(Although I beleive the decision will be made for me, there is nobody else even remotely interested in doing more for the Troop). I am hoping that maybe by next year there will be newer blood coming in and someone better qualified. Who knows, maybe someone in the CO might be interested to take the position for a year or two. That was the main reason for me starting this discussion. I have all online training done, am registered for IOLS and Woodbadge this Fall, and I have BALLOO (I know it isn't required for BS). Is there anything else I need, not just for required training but also just info in general that would help. I love to read and have read several Scout related books and Trainig guides for Troops, Packs, and Committees. Any suggestions on books would also be appreciated. The Troop we are in does one campout a month minimum, this includes Camporee. They only do a backpack trip when someone needs it for Rank. We do a semi-car camping, they seem to like it. However, another adult in the troop would like to see at least a minimum of one backpacking trip a year. Since the boys make up the calander, I realize that they will have to want this on the calander to make it a possibility. However, If I do take the SM position, I will make it a point to encourage more backpacking, and less car camping. Another point of interest to me is Order Of The Arrow. The Troop neither incourages nor discourages participation in OA. After doing research on OA I now understand what it is and what they are doing. There are two reason the Troop doesn't really participate in OA: 1: Small Group of 8 boys 2: Even if offered now, the current older boys wouldn't care for it anyways The adult mentioned earlier on backpacking was in OA as a Boy Scout and the ACM now CM mentioned earlier was in OA also. Both are very intersted in their child participating in OA and I am hoping that the CM will come my way in 2 years. I feel I need to help increase the numbers of the troop to be able to sustain the OA participation. I am already trying to get other boys in the Troop(right now my boys are looking for friends to join). I know this is a lot to digest, and I am sorry if it seems scattered, but I really am trying to get all the information I can as soon as I can. If there is anything else I left out, please fill in. Please criticize where needed, I need all input no matter how useless or insignificant it may seem to you or others.

Once again thanks for everyones input. I would like to remind that I am fairly new to the Scouting scene. One thing that has been mentioned I really like/ find very informative, is the WEBELOS program. The pack my boys were in does 2 campouts a year, one Cave camping, and summer camp. That means car camping with the adults doing the work. The just stepping in CM, who was ACM last year, did much in trying to involve the older boys in more scout like activities during the outings. However there was no seperate WEBELOS campouts. My boys ended up doing several campouts with the Troop they are now in to get their requirements. I am going to try to get the new WEB 2 group to do some actual camping outside the Pack Campouts this next year. As I also said, the current SM wants to step down in a year, wanting me to be his replacement. This is weighing heavily on my mind, and I am trying to get all the training I can under my belt so I can make a better decision(Although I beleive the decision will be made for me, there is nobody else even remotely interested in doing more for the Troop). I am hoping that maybe by next year there will be newer blood coming in and someone better qualified. Who knows, maybe someone in the CO might be interested to take the position for a year or two. That was the main reason for me starting this discussion. I have all online training done, am registered for IOLS and Woodbadge this Fall, and I have BALLOO (I know it isn't required for BS). Is there anything else I need, not just for required training but also just info in general that would help. I love to read and have read several Scout related books and Trainig guides for Troops, Packs, and Committees. Any suggestions on books would also be appreciated. The Troop we are in does one campout a month minimum, this includes Camporee. They only do a backpack trip when someone needs it for Rank. We do a semi-car camping, they seem to like it. However, another adult in the troop would like to see at least a minimum of one backpacking trip a year. Since the boys make up the calander, I realize that they will have to want this on the calander to make it a possibility. However, If I do take the SM position, I will make it a point to encourage more backpacking, and less car camping. Another point of interest to me is Order Of The Arrow. The Troop neither incourages nor discourages participation in OA. After doing research on OA I now understand what it is and what they are doing. There are two reason the Troop doesn't really participate in OA: 1: Small Group of 8 boys 2: Even if offered now, the current older boys wouldn't care for it anyways The adult mentioned earlier on backpacking was in OA as a Boy Scout and the ACM now CM mentioned earlier was in OA also. Both are very intersted in their child participating in OA and I am hoping that the CM will come my way in 2 years. I feel I need to help increase the numbers of the troop to be able to sustain the OA participation. I am already trying to get other boys in the Troop(right now my boys are looking for friends to join). I know this is a lot to digest, and I am sorry if it seems scattered, but I really am trying to get all the information I can as soon as I can. If there is anything else I left out, please fill in. Please criticize where needed, I need all input.

Interesting stuff. I didn't realize all the different thoughts on the subject. Just to make sure you understand, the boys really enjoyed the 1 year in WEBELOS before BoyScouts. They did however think it was for "little boys". But like I said, my boys are used to working and doing things on their own on the Farm. One thing I must say I really do not think is good is the Fast Track in Cubs to get boys to their Arrow Of Light. It seems more like a puppy mill to me. Almost as if a boy that doesn't get the AOL will not make it in scouts. All WEBELOS in our Pack got AOL but none of them really did anything to earn it in my opinion. Even my boys got it in under a year, and they did everything required. That was a result of the CM wanting to be sure all boys get their AOL. What do the kids learn from that? I realize that has more to do with leadership. As far as burnout, except for myself as ADL for 1 year, everyone else is dead tired of scouts and cannot wait for their boys to move up so they can step out. That is where I am now. No parents moving up to help in Scouts and a SM that seriously needs help. I am getting my qualifications squared away so I can help as ASM but that may not be enough. I hear about SM's that have beeen around for many years, but I assume they have plenty of ASM's to help. This guy has been alone for several years. He has had to rely on those from the Troop Committee to have his 2 deep leadership. After 5 months in this Troop, I am being asked by the SM if I would be interested in being the future SM(In about a year). I am very hesitant to do so, not because I am afraid, but I have a boy that will be Tiger age in 1 year. I have debated on that before now and have decided to stay with my original thoughts of children starting out and doing too much too young, and not letting him join till maybe WEBELOS. There is no way that I can be SM and Den Leader at the same time. There is no way to give proper time to both. Then add the fact that the current CM expects that I will want CM in 2 years because of my younger son. I already knew that wouldn't be possible before now and told him that I would be more than willing to stay on Pack Committee(Possibly in a permanant manner , since I plan on going nowhere, and I could be a stable source of information for future Cub Leaders.) That is were I satnd, I have nothing against Cub Scouts, I just seem to think kids at that young of an age are being pushed in too much.

I wasn't blaming anything in particular on the numbers in scouting, I was just wondering about the general impact of parents pushing their children at too young of an age. I used the title because I was thinking in this general direction already. Not that I think Cub Scouts is hurting Boy Scouts. I was just relating to the fact, that kids don't get to grow up to be kids anymore it seems. Schedules are too cramed and there isn't a whole lot of time. By the time they hit 12 or 13, they want something different to do. Thus the "Burnout". I have found personally that Scouting is well worth the time put in. It teaches many good things that can be carried on into the adult life, unlike many of the things that kids are doing now. I am just at a point that I am wondering what to do when my youngest comes of age for Cub Scouts. Whether or not I am active in the Boy Scouts, Cub will involve time away from my home. My other three seem to have done really well as just entering as WEBELOS and moving up to Scout, and I am wondering about the same for the younger one.

Was just reading a thread on "Hats and Handbags" and there was a reference at the end on the lower numbers in scouts today, "Everyone seems to have different opinions as to why this is. Some blame parents, video games, school sports the list seems endless. Do we need to change? If so what changes are needed? Is Cub Scouting harming Boy Scouting? There are a lot of things that I just don't understand. " Something I have dwelled on since my teen years, I will call "Over Activity of Young Children" for a lack of a better term. I say this but then have to wonder if that is right. I always thought children did way too much organized activities. I've seen parents fight(Literally), children cry, and families play their kids in sports year round(That is not good for a young developing body). This would also count for other activities such as music, karate, etc. I didn't let my children do anything organized till this last year, thinking why not try it. I was so right in the Jr Pro Football(I'm sorry, I grew up on a farm, was cutting hay and driving the farm truck by 11, but these coaches are too rediculous with the stress they put on kids, It isn't the Pros), but felt Cub Scouts (WEBELOS) was alright. However, In the last few months I am starting to rethink the Cub Scouts again. I am starting to see the "Burnout" in Boy Scouts that I saw cousins, neices and nephews go through in sports. Not only that, Cub Scouts requires a whole lot more adult "hands on". That "hands on" can cut away at the available Adults for Boy Scouts, as well as burn out the adult. I am sorry, but just doing things together as a family (Vacation, Games, Fishing, Yard work, Garden, Farm work), while very physical and time consuming, doesn't seem to create burnout like 5 years in cub scouting. It may be because everyone is benefited by the activity at home. Do not get me wrong, I beleive everyone benefits from Cub Scouting. But something seems diferrent between Cub Scouts and a Child helping out around the Home. Maybe Cub Scouting isn't ment for these children. As a Boyscout, the boy is making his own decisions and developing a since of responsibility outside the home. Still adults are involved, but more af a guiding rolemodel, like I am to my younger boys at home. Am I off on this or does some of it make since. Sorry for the ramblin.

Sorry about the smiley I didn't mean for it to go in there, that shoud read Pack. As far as online, as I have said, if it is online I have taken it. So if I read right, Troop Committee I am fine. For ASM,after I finish IOLS, I need a group course for SM/ASM Specific Training.

Sorry about the rambling Currently BS:Troop committee (Primary) CS: WEB2 Assistant Near Future BS:ASM (Primary) CS:Pack Committee/Troop Liason After that, anything that needs done as the situation arrises. The pack CM wants me ACM so bad he can taste it. I try to explain I do not want to over do it and that nobody wins if I do. I have two boys just moving into Boy Scouts, one will be there next year, and a 4 year old that will be in Cub Scouts in about 2 years. Do the math,I have about 13 years to go not including my plans on at least being on Troop and/or Cub Committee after the boy's time is done. I do not plan on leaving when the boys age out. I want to be an asset to both Boys and Cubs in the future if possible. That is why I would like to take all training as I find time.