bigbovine

Ok, appreciate the comments. Just got back from camping. "Who is so attached to the fly?" The Adults most definitely like it (Except for me, although I think it is appropriate for Camporees). There are two, maybe three, that like it for sure (these are the older boys). I have talked to my 3 boys and they say they don't want it(would rather have a easy set fly for separation from each others Patrol), and my boys say that there is another one that agrees with them. You have the one boy I heard talking that doesn't like it. They say the other boys like it but not worth the setup. That leaves 2 that I am not sure about. Adults= Like it (I am good either way, but prefer not to have it) Boys=Three possible Yes Four definite no Four borderline "Dining flies are extremely useful. I don't understand why you have a single fly for the entire troop. Every patrol should have its own, including the adult cooking group. " At the camp out this weekend I once again brought up the Dining Fly situation since we are needing to do some major and costly repair. Making the argument for patrol identity as well as ease of setup in both time and effort, not to mention making it the Patrols responsibility to repair and replace their own Fly. Comment from one adult (Who has some say in matters) "I don't think it is a good idea because...." and goes on about safety concerns. My thinking was, as long as things are set up correctly (Gas and such), they have as much of a chance of getting hurt either way. They have to learn some time. Between him and the SM, if they have any say, the Dining Fly remains as is. "What is a troop outhouse?" An old 10'x10' tent with bottom cut out. Set it up, dig a hole inside and set toilet seat over hole. Fill in and dig new hole as needed. "Does your troop ever camp more than 100' from the trailer? " No. As an added note, one of the boys asked about separate Flies this weekend and the response was that we didn't need that when we had such a good thing already. I am looking right now at Kudu's stuff and also checking on easy up types so I can present this. At least I will know where I stand as future SM when this discussion is over with along with some others that need to be brought forward.

Opinions on this. When Troop goes on an outing, the Trailer is in tow. Upon reaching the site, Scouts unload Trailer, set up dining fly (20' by 30' which the whole Troop sets up cook stations under), set up Patrol cook stations, Troop outhouse, then they are able to set up their tent. I have seen it take between 40 minutes to one hour and a half for the boys to finally have their tents up. The adults set up their tents during this, then set up their cook station when the dining fly is put up. I overheard a boy (New Scout) talking the other night about having to set up the dining fly. He doesn't like it. I have a feeling that this is the same feeling shared by most if not all boys in the Troop. These are just two of my opinions. 1: For Camporees it is a good thing. The boys are there to do whatever and it is nice to have a big meeting area and cook area. 2: On regular campouts it is nice, but takes away from the individuality of the Patrols (Everyone in the same place at all times), not to mention the time to set up and take down.

I know the answer to what this would be in a properly Boy Run Troop, but I need opinions on this. I am also interested in opinions on this arrangement, which I will ask in a different Post. So lets keep this on topic and not rant about how things should or should not be run. Remember, as future SM, I would like to see some of this change. When Troop goes on an outing, the Trailer is in tow. Upon reaching the site, Scouts unload Trailer, set up dining fly (20' by 30' which the whole Troop sets up cook stations under), set up Patrol cook stations, Troop outhouse, then they are able to set up their tent. I have seen it take between 40 minutes to one hour and a half for the boys to finally have their tents up. The adults set up their tents during this, then set up their cook station when the dining fly is put up. Once again, forget the fact that this may not be the optimum way for Scouts to do their camping (That is another topic). My question is Is it wrong for the adults to sit and watch the boys set up the dining fly, considering that we are also using it? Or, should they not be helping with things that are joint use? I am not talking doing it for them or telling them how to put it up, but holding a pole, twisting a wing nut, attaching the roof, etc. when asked. I understand that they need to learn things for themselves, but I have a problem with sitting and watching other people work for my benefit. What are we teaching the boys? Wait till I get older so I can make the boys do the work. I know for a fact that one boy that aged out and has been helping as an adult made the comment "I sure am glad I am an adult so I don't have to do anything anymore". Some of the boys see us sitting in our chairs and they want to do the same thing. Opinions?

Thanks allangr1024 for those links, always looking for more stuff. I also agree with # 5 from Eagle92. Not only for the reading, but it's nice owning books from the late 1930's to early 1940's. Been a good read so far.

A new link with revised version, but not a final. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0lL-RDeSOIoVkFOckhyOC1tZ3c I also tried to make some of them a more realistic view. Oak Tree does have a good point on that.(This message has been edited by bigbovine)

Oak Tree, I understand what you are saying, but it is the ideals that I wish to post. Any person that is needed and is able is better than none at all, most of the time. But preparing before hand and getting everyone to take training of some sort before hand is more preferred. Example, waiting to get someone to be SM when you are sick and tired of being SM is way too late. Looking for someone that can take your place before then instead of waiting for one to drop in your lap is much better do you not agree? Especially when there has been no ASM for years. Same for any other position. You should always be getting others involved and trained as soon as you can, not waiting till you become desperate. At that point you take anything you can get, which usually isn't anything like you might want. Not to mention, training takes the headache out of starting something new. None of these "Truths" are impossible. In fact with good planning, they are very doable, it just takes some forethought (Which is the purpose of my wanting to put this on our wall). Also remember that each of these may not work for every Troop. Take # 1 for example. Our Troop doesn't have a problem with equipment. It is very modest and you don't have people running around trying to get the best and biggest stuff. That is one I will be changing on my List. Which also leads me to the new #6. " A Scouter's goal is to be needed the LEAST. What a boy can do, a Scouter should NEVER do. Allow your boys to be Scouts. " and the addition to some peoples #1 "Scouts are our customers: Everything we do, we do for the Scouts. Without them, there is no need for Scouters." While these ring True, they do not fit into my list because I want to state the Truths that affect the future acquisition of volunteers to the group. That goal has nothing to do with Scouters interaction with Scouts. Once again, proper training should take care of that issue anyways. I say this partly from experience. I came in not too long ago as green as one could be as far as how Scouting was run. However, I love getting involved and love even more learning new things. I took every training that was offered online in the first month. I went to, and still am, going to every training I can find both inside and outside my district. I even took Response Personnel certification a month ago so the Troop does not have to go get a lifegaurd for swimming and such. The only things I have not taken that are on my immediate list are SM/ASM position Specific (in person), and I would also like to take OWLS(I plan on keeping a relationship with the WEBELOS of the Pack and feel this would aid in that). I soon found that people would be asking me stuff. Why, one might ask? Because I seemed knowledgeable to them. These people had been in Cub Scouts 5 years, and after 3 months, I knew more of what was going on than they did. To me, that is sad. I soon learned that they were pretty much only there to get their kids through, then they were gone. They really didn't care otherwise. The only training that had been taken by anyone was the bare minimum needed to go on outings, and that was by the CM and ACM. After I was there only 5 months, the CM bailed (His boy was out now). For the two years he was CM, I was told that nobody had even thought about preparing for his leaving. Over the last year, the new CM (who was the ACM)and I have been preparing for his leaving. He is planning on staying a year after his boy is out, then joining me as an ASM. We are preparing a man to take his place, and we are working with him on finding his successor. There is no reason to not do this. We plan on going to the Pack Committee meetings to assure this process stays in place. This will also benefit the Troop. I say this not to complain , but to inform you of why I am making this little plaque for the wall. With 4 of these "Truths" kept in mind, most volunteer problems can be avoided. I am not clueless to reality. I realize nothing is perfect or guaranteed. What I do understand (and this comes from my life outside of Scouting), is that preparing for what you can, reduces the stress that you would have by not preparing. So with that in mind, keep coming with the ideas, because everyone has something that may be specific to their Troop. And who knows, you might bring to light a problem that others may not have noticed. Once again, Thank You for all of your ideas! P.S. The link I put above, is only my rough draft. Just wanted you to have an idea of what it will look like.

This should work. If the link doesn't work let me know. https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=DE45036C1121DD47!105&authkey=!AGlY8X14iEyo34w

"Brevity is the soul of something-or-other. Any new addition should require two deletions." I agree. Short but sweet. And anyone can make up or rearrange what they want. It isn't like anything is set in stone. I for one am liking my original 5 in some sort of fashion. Still working on it, a work in progress. I plan on fixing it up in the next week or two. May see some great ideas by then. I would like to replace my 1st point with something, but haven't seen anything that catches my eye yet. Thanks for what you have posted so far.

I agree with you Eagle732. In fact I would assume that was a given in all Troops. However, I am focusing on the way our Troop views the future as it concerns the volunteers. You have to think ahead (Be Prepared) to ease the bumps that come your way. This is one way I want to keep that in the forefront of my mind. Kind of like those motivational posters you see around. Kind of like the Leadership Poster with a soaring Eagle that I purchased at a thrift store for $5 with frame (A scout is Thrifty). That poster is now hanging in the Adult room along with posters of the Scout Law, Motto, and Oath. I believe this will make a great addition to that wall. I want the Adults I surround myself with to be thinking ahead and on the same page. This is one way I plan on doing this.

Looking good. I may start a new poster with the new ideas so keep those coming as well. The original 5 are filling the single page perfectly, and the shortened version is making it easier to make the font bigger/easier to read. However, keep in mind that I am doing this one as a reminder to the leadership in the Troop to not become lax in recruiting able bodied volunteers. Remember that I am entering a Troop that has done no recruiting in at least 5 years for boys or adults. These little "Truths" ring solid in my ears. I would say that from what I have seen over the last 2 years is an example of how not to abide by 4 out of 5 of the "Truths". I want this to be a reminder for myself as well as the current and future adults entering the Troop. I know as I am given the position of SM that I may well be there for another 12 years at least( My youngest is 6). I want to make sure within the next 2 years I have found a replacement for myself. Who knows what could happen to a person that would cause a position to need filling. It would be wrong on my part to not have my replacement on standby at all times. So keep that in mind as you give suggestions. As I asked earlier, is there a way to put a word document on here?

Redo on #5 5. Scouting requires assistance.

Ok, I liked that much better. I hadn't had time to word things my own way, mostly cut and paste and a little rewording to fit to the subject. I made a few changes to reflect a more personal view. Will probably still do some more changes. I think this will serve as an eye opener for some in our group, and a reminder to keep things moving on the Adult end. Lets hear some more. By the way, is there a way I can put my word document in here so I can show yall how I am printing this up? This is going in a frame to hang on the wall. Here is my revised version of Callooh's,I didn't change much. Scouter Truths 1. Humans are more important than Equipment. Motivated, skilled, knowledgeable Scouters benefit Scouts more than equipment. 2. Quality is better than Quantity. A few motivated, skilled, knowledgeable, and trained Scouters can run a more effective program than a large group of less qualified and less committed volunteers. 3. Scouters cannot be developed quickly. Developing skills and knowledge and acquiring training necessary to run a quality program take time, as does developing necessary trust. Rushing yields inferior results. 4. Scouters must train before needed. If you do not train volunteers until you need them, you are too late. Be Prepared. 5. Scouting requires non Scouter assistance. Scouting needs a variety of skills, talents, and resources on the team. Recognize, appreciate, and grow the circle of volunteers.

So I thought I would get opinions and suggestions on this. I am planning on putting this up in the "Adults Room". I have it on Word and will be dressing it up to put in a hanging frame. Anything you might add, take away, or even reword. I have no problems changing to something better, I got this idea from the "SOF Truths" links in another Thread. I reworded, copied, and so forth to go with Scouters. I would like to keep it short and simple, and this fits on one sheet of paper, so don't get too long winded please. Scouters Truths 1: Scouters are more important than Equipment Scouters, not equipment, make the difference. The right Scouter, with the right training will get it done. Spending money on equipment will never make up for inexperienced or unmotivated Scouters. 2: Quality is better than Quantity A small number of Scouters, carefully selected, well trained, and highly motivated are more preferable to a large number of Scouters who might not be up to the task. 3: Scouters cannot be quickly trained It takes time to recruit, train, and develop the Scouters needed. It also takes time to develop the level of trust necessary for the Scouters to become fully capable. You cannot speed up the process and expect the same results. 4: Scouters cannot be trained after they are needed It takes time to develop Scouters. You have to develop them before you need them. When you need Scouters, most often you really need them at that particular moment. Do your preparation work beforehand. 5: Scouting sometimes requires non Scouter assistance You cannot do it all by yourself. You will need other skills and talents that do not exist on your team. Recognize and accept that. You will always need outside assistance. Make sure you grow and develop outside relationships.

I watched Follow Me Boys when I was a kid. When it came on DVD I had to get it. Just as good now as it was then. The boys love it as well. Another movie worth mentioning is "Outlaw Trail" (I think 2008). "Three boy scouts, one a great-nephew of Butch Cassidy, and their pretty girl friend hunt for the lost treasure of the legendary bank robber in 1950s Utah. A modern gang of outlaws wants to grab the loot, too, and soon the intrepid heroes are fleeing for the lives on trains, rafts and automobiles." Great movie, with scouting in a good bit of it. On the back it calls it a "Feature Film For Families." It then has a few questions for discussion. One of which is "Jess had really useful skills because he had studied and learned about survival in the wilderness. Where could you go these days to learn about good survival skills?" A very fun movie.

"Didn't realize the troop was only ten scouts." Yes, only 10 at the moment. Was 11 until we had an incedent at Camp. Only 3 of the boys are left from the old Troop numbers. A bunch of young guys now. The next group of WEBELOS coming up with the CM is 10 strong. We already have commitment from 7 and the other three just haven't decided if they are going to continue in scouting or not. There are 8 at the moment in the next group. My hope is that we will have 20 boys total in about a year and a half. At that point, the current CM who will be my ASM (Hopefully a second ASM from the next group) plus at least two more solid Committee members to add to the Troop. "I do like the idea though of moving the whole troop over to the charter org of the pack that wants to start a unit. It would solve two issues with one action. " At that point we plan on revisiting the moving of the Troop. We feel it would be best for all. Town A Has our Troop and another plus a Pack, Town B is our Pack, and Town C has 2 Troops and a Pack but in another District. We are closer to Town C. Some boys go to Town C out of proximity and reputation. We firmly believe we would keep most if not all boys if the Troop was in same location as Pack.

Thank you for your responses. For those interested, things went very positive. I didn't want anyone to know my true intentions because I wanted all possible angles. I will be staying with the Troop (My original goal from the beginning). However, the biggest thing was the insight to spreading myself too thin, I really needed to hear that. Yes, Wife is happy even though I am not going the consolidation route. May have saved both Troop and Pack integrity, and opened the eyes of the Troop Committee. They agreed that there needs to be more active recruitment instead of "hopein and prayin" that the boys from the feeder Pack will come there way. Once again thanks to all for your opinions.

Well , I thank you all for the advice. Tonight the current Troop SM and CC want to have a meeting with me to see what options are available. AS I said before, my boys have mixed feelings on this. They are willing to move Troops, because we have discussed doing so before. They were willing once last year to move to a Troop that would be meeting in their Homeschool group, but it would be a further drive than the current which is why that idea didn't follow through. Until the current 5 boys came in this year(One was my younger of the 3 in the Troop), There were only 5 boys including my other 2. That makes the current number ten. Nobody their age except the new guys, so no loss there. They can take em or leave em for the most part. Right now the only thing that bothers them is they just came off of a week of camp. That always causes some bonding, and the sooner after something like this happens the stronger the bond is. The group was dying when we came in, I just don't think they realized it. When and if this new Troop starts, it will effectively kill any chances of getting any meaningful numbers from the Pack. If it wasn't for my boys and I in the last 2 years, they would be down to 3 to 4 boys anyway. They also have friends in the Pack, which means no loss of friendships there. Basically the friend thing is a wash either way (also considering they are friends with the CM's son). Talked to the Current CM today, and he is doing this no matter what. He has decided that he doesn't want the old Troops involvement, and I have a feeling it stems from the Troops attitude of the OA being "a cult". Even after discussing this with the Troop and them saying I could allow the OA in( they said they didn't want nothing to do with it otherwise), he didn't really care. He is afraid of possible backlash. I have known the CM longer and still have a relationship with him. We have helped each other out of Jams with parents, and we trust each other. We also see eye to eye on how we expect things to be run. I also trust the current Troops Leadership. We have small differences on how I think things should be done (My version of boy led versus the SM's), but nothing that bothers me to any degree. That is why I am torn between the two. As far as recruiting from the Pack, there is an average of 7 boys in WEB2. Compared to what other Troops in our council have, 15 to 20 is considered big. So getting an average of 2 boys a year to stay in the Troop is really good. There it is, boys are good either way, I have good relationships with both Pack and Troop leadership, CM is starting this one way or another (Already has CO in line ready to go), Pack and Troop in one house and closer by (Wife really loves this idea with the little guy coming up), I would have done this 3 years ago if I had my current knowledge and experience, and yes we fully understand (Wife included)what will be required to get it up and running. The CM even said he has some guys that were in scouts that just joined the Pack this month that are willing to help, just not wanting to be SM. The only thing bothering me, the current SM really was expecting me to be the next SM in next few months. Even though I suggested being ASM so I could be on outings when he couldn't and so I wouldn't be pressured to be at every Troop meeting so I could take my little one to Pack. I have resisted this at every turn, but last month he basically said he was stepping down and I would have to take over(Just like what happened to him). Once again Thank you. P.S. Per your advice, I will be advising the CM if I do take this position, that I will be limiting myself to 2 nights week tops, and one position tops.

Boy basement, your a real pessimist. What Beavah is saying is what I am needing to hear. I havent decided on my role yet, that is why the questions. Do not take what I have said as a final decision, I am just wanting to know what that path means. I already understand the path I am on at the momment.

To recap on Beavah, great stuff, but all has been considered. I asked for advice, good or bad. I wanted an outside view on something that I am struggling with at this moment, and it is a huge struggle. CO is no problem, have 2 that are wanting this, and one that they haven't asked but know would take on the responsibility. Equipment is not the problem. The council has wanted this for years because of the size of the area and the central location. They feel they may retain more boys if they didn't have to drive to the next town for a Troop. I understand my short comings of experience, but I am going to be a SM either way, so that one is not even part of the equation. This pack is big in our area, averaging 35 to 45 kids a year. Most drop out after WEB and do not continue. The current Troop says they are supposed to have them as a feeder, but haven't recieved any boys from it in 10 years (Since the current SM boys moved up to be exact). At least not until my boys showed up. The CM says he already has people willing to help on Committee. My only issue, which I plan on clearing up soon, is participation from the CO. If I am not happy with their response, then I told them I am definately out of the picture. I am not naive. OA involvment will only be delivery, if needed. Cub involvement, Be at Pack meetings and such, no official position. By the way, Thanks and keep coming at me. I need all angles considered, do not hold back. (This message has been edited by bigbovine)

Scouts 3 years, outdoor a lifetime in some areas, others not so much. In scouting outdoor skills, probably 50/50. Will have at least 2 ASM to join me. One says he is going to do the Troop no matter what, but will not be the SM. Starting the new Troop is not my decision, it is happening with or without me. Whether I lend what knowledge and experience I have to the group is the question. If I do not take SM in this, they will probably try to find someone willing to volunteer for it. If I do not take SM I will stay where I am. Either way, the old Troop is going to have to start getting active in recruit. When I came in, it was kind of automatic the others followed me. Like I said, I am only 3 years in and have more "Training" than everyone I am associated with in both groups together. Doesn't make me better, just more dangerous. Nobody seems to care for training in either group. However there are some new guys in the pack that have the same drive as myself, and I plan on tapping into that. That is one reason they followed me, they saw someone wanting to make a difference and do things the way it ought to be done. I am not perfect, but I do want the boys to get the most out of Scouting. My wife and I are doing great. We understand our limits and refuse to let anything to get in the way of our marriage. We have not done things that the boys would have liked such as ball, and I love ball. We just decided we were not going to run all over creation to make that happen (Because of their ages so close, but yet just far enough apart). That is why I trust her when she says she thinks this other route would be best for our family. The reason we joined scouts originally, was because of the "convenience" of the whole ordeal. The last year we were on the edge of our limits that we had set. We made it work for a year to see what would happen. We could do it again, but only for a short timespan again. That is why I have givin serious thought to the move. By the way, I will not take leadership in the pack, just meet with the committee for guidance. I want to be able to be there with my youngest as a parent not a Den Leader. This sums it up I am not taking my ball and running home, I am not dissappointed in the current Committee or SM, but looking at doing something I would have done 3 years ago if I had my current experience and knowledge. If the boys hadn't joined the current Troop and were just leaving WEBELOS, I would be all over this. The convenience of both groups meeting in same building is a really huge bonus.

This advice I am seeking here is legit either way. Whether I do one or the other, the boys want to do more backpacking. Because of that we need to know how others do water so we can figure out what works best for our situation. If we start a new Troop, then we will have to do it this way off the bat. If we remain in the current Troop, we wouldn't have to right off, but could experiment. That is why this question is seperate.

Burn out is big concern. That is one reason why I think the new Troop might be a good idea if other plans cannot be worked out. If both are in same place I will not have to drive all over for meetings. I have already decided that roundtables will be set aside if I can find someone else to go. That is one night a month out of the way. OA nights are a problem. Right now the one who is going to be my ASM either way (He wont be SM) is willing to transport but he works on monday nights. Nobody else to really do that because the current Troop looks down on OA (It's a Cult to them, but they told me I could do what I wanted for OA as long as it doesn't involve them or get in way of their shooting team). As far as campouts and stuff, I love that, no concern on burnout there. Committee meetings are a must for me to attend, no skimp there either way. I also see it as a positive for the Troop and Pack to meet at same place, gives the little ones something to look forward to. I also do not plan on being Den leader while SM, just want to be able to go to Pack meetings and such without having a problem. Plus as a Tiger I will have to be there anyway. Let me add, outside of Church meetings and occasional Respite (We do short term Foster for infant placements) I don't do much else, Scouts is ou main activity.

As I mentioned previously, having both meeting in same place at same time is big bonus. I am going to run into a big problem on time constraints when my youngest joins the Pack. The main reason I have resisted becoming replacement SM at current troop, hoping someone else could be found. I have actually thought about and will mention to the current troop about keeping all the same but moving the meeting place to that of the Pack. The complacency of recruiting, I have taken care of myself. It isn't that they don't want it, they just don't do it. I don't have a problem with the CO representation and the committee, my main issue is once again the time constraints. Her is run down on time: Current situation when youngest joins Pack, Troop and Pack meet same night 10 minutes appart. I can get Den to meet on other nights, but that has messed up other Dens in the past when Pack meeting comes around. But given that is the only way to do it, here is what I am looking at OA meetings 2 times month, Monday nights. Den meetings 3 times month, not sure which night depending on what others can do. Pack meetings 1 night a month on Tuesday night. Troop meetings 4 nights a month. Pack Committee meeting, 1 night a month. Troop committee meeting 1 night a month. That doesn't include Troop campouts and coordinating them around Pack outings. 2nd option: OA 2 nights month Roundtable 1 night a month Pack, Den, Troop meetings 4 nights month same night same place. Pack/Troop committee meeting 1 night month (possibly on same night place as Den/ Troop meetings) 12 nights to 7 or 8 nights depending on Committee meetings. Does anybody see a problem with the new setup if that is the way I go. Once again, I haven't decided yet, just looking at it from all sides. I figured someone else seeing this from the outside would be able to shed some different light on the subject. I would hate to start something only to cause two failures. But keep in mind, I will be there for the next 10 to 12 years minimum.

Givin my new circumstance, on starting a new Troop that plans on doing backpack camping versus car camping, what do you do for water on your weekend campout. I was going through stuff in my mind that the current Troop does, and the only hangup I see is proper amounts of water if in a place where there is no water spout or stream, etc.., available. Currently we fill up 2/30 gal drums that we fill wash station buckets and drinking water buckets with. There is never a shortage of water, and it is convenient. What do you guys do for water on a weekend campout when you are not near a ready source of water like when we car camping.

I have just been approached with starting a new Troop. It was disscussed a few years ago in a Pack Committee Meeting, but never went anywhere because nobody really had any Troop experience or wanted the responsibility (I was fresh into the Scouting scene, only been there maybe 2 weeks). Given what I have learned in the last few years, if had the knowledge I have now I would have volunteered to start a Troop. A few of those still in the Pack know that the Troop that my 3 boys are in now wants to appoint me as new SM (which the current SM would like to happen in the next month or two). 1: My boys have mixed Feelings. a:They like the idea of being closer to home, being part of building a new Troop, and doing some things different(More boy lead). b:They have made friends, are comfortable with what they know (not many people like change, for good or bad). 2: I have mixed Feelings a:Being part of building a new program is exciting and challenging. I would like to see some things done differently on the adult side than what is currently done in the Troop (I realize that can be done if and when I become SM in the current Troop, I do not think there would be grief if I changed things up a little). It would be closer to home and more in our community (but only 10 minutes difference, no big deal). A big plus, I have a fourth joining Pack next year, and both Pack and Troop would be in same building on same night. This is a big deal with my wife, because current situation is looking at 3-4 nights a week between roundtable, Pack and Troop meetings, Pack and Troop Committee meetings, and possible OA if any of my boys are selected (whether or not I am involved in OA, we would still have to get them to and from). In the new situation, I am looking at 2 nights a week tops, and occasionally 3. b:I have developed relationships with those in the Committe and the Troop that we are currently in. The SM has been there for over 10 years and wants a break, but will stay on as CC. I almost feel like I would be betraying him if I did this, yet I see this as the best move for my family. They have not actively recruited for the last 5 years, and when the SM saw how active I wanted to be, immediately saw me as replacement. I have resisted, but he recently said he was retiring and it was me or nothing. I would hate to see the current Troop fold, my boys even said the same, but they have active adult leadership in the committee and I think they would be able to see things through. Am I wrong in my thinking? When does Family trump Loyalty to the Troop? I have so many questions on this that I am not sure where to start. There will be plenty of support in the new Troop and at least three groups that are willing to Charter.