Sentinel947

I support Homosexuals in the BSA simply because I believe my faith governs my actions, and that is all.

I respect those who are further to the right of me on the spectrum who hold to their religious beliefs and support the ban. I hold those on the left who do not support the ban in just as high regard.

It has been hard for me personally to endure the constant coverage of this, the hateful comments, and the probing remarks of people who know me, and know of my strong connection to the BSA.

I think and hope eventually like everything else, this issue will be settled in the marketplace of ideas. Not by heavy handed government intrusion.

I think this debate has gotten a little too heated for many of the members involved, and we should perhaps let these threads die down.

There has been plenty of eloquent statements, and clever arguments, but at the end of the day, few people here are going to change their opinions, and this thread is starting to mirror our Presidential race.

Just my two cents on the subject.

God bless the BSA.

Thank you. I'm majoring in Political Science, so I can appreciate a debate on politics, ethics and morality and delight in the subjects, but I was surprised that Scouting topics are receiving such little love in comparison.

Not trying to start anything, but why is this sub forum ridiculously more active than the rest of the sub forums on this website?

Blanc, my troop has it's info and point of contact on there. I was just commenting on my area in general. But it's nice to see all the troops around.

lots of troops in my area that say "Contact the council for info" that's kind of a downer.

I personally wear whatever I've earned to wear or should wear. That means my Eagle knot and my religious award, my Triple Crown dangly thing and my OA lodge flap. I wasn't under the impression that those things were mandatory, I'm sure they aren't.

As an Adult, if we show pride in our uniforms, the Boys will show pride in theirs.

Besides, one can learn alot about a guy from his uniform if everything is in place.

What do you guys think about it? What kind of working relationship does your Scoutmasters and SPL have in your troop?

How active a role does your Scoutmaster have in dealing with the SPL? Does he wait for the SPL to come to him for help, or does he jump in and give advice?

What kind of style is appropriate for working with the Senior Leaders? Does the Scoutmaster treat the SPL like his worker? Or is more of a coaching, mentoring deal?

What role does ASM's have to play with working with the (A)SPL's?

What methods do we have if we disagree with how the (A)SPL's are being coached?

Thanks in advance,

Sentinel

I have a very strong supporter of allowing homosexuals into the BSA. However, probably 90% of the ones who want to be in the BSA, already are. Not a real statistic, just my estimation. While an issue, We've allowed the Media to explode it out of proportion. When the AT&T guy takes over, I think things will start to move in the direction of inclusion.

To ensure it's Future, the BSA needs to get stronger in the inner cities, and with African Americans, Hispanics, and Asians. In my Eagle Scout class, the overwhelming number of Boys were white and from the suburbs surrounding Cincinnati. (I'm in Dan Beard Council). Cincinnati has a diverse population that is not be reflected in it's Troop Memberships or Eagle Scouts.

I don't support allowing Atheists into the BSA at any Point. When they start allowing Priests to head American Atheist Society, we can talk.

As for Girls? Why bring them into the BSA? The Girl Scouts is a fine program, and for Girls who want more Outdoorsy stuff, We have Venturing specifically for that purpose.

That being said, If the BSA brings in Athiests, Homosexuals, and Girls, I will still continue in such an organization, because development of Youth is important, regardless of who they are or what they believe in terms of creed.... or lack of.

If you cannot convince your Charter Organization to clean house, then I suggest you find a new place where your experience and talents are appreciated and utilized. A couple of my opinions if you don't mind:

Committees role is to finance the troop, and to generally do background work in support of the program. Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters determine Program, because they are actually in the trenches working that program. Committee members rarely will have the knowledge of the situations on the ground in a troop, and in my opinion, should stay out. If they want to have a part in determining the program, they need to move positions.

As for a parent who thinks the Scout Oath and Law is words. I don't even know what I'd say to that. The words I'd like to say to them are prohibited by that law, the words I'd say would not be kind, courteous, friendly, and certainly wouldn't be clean.

Recruiting effectively is a function of Boy Leaders (Den Chiefs) and the Scoutmasters. You really do not need any committee assistance to recruit, unless you feel like you need the extra manpower. However, I'd have a hard time with bringing in Boys into a Troop where the Adults are so divided.

Now for a question of my own. Do your Scouts know that the committee is politiking and in division? Do they know that adult members of your Troop are acting like children? ALWAYS expect your Boys to know more about the adult side of things than they should. How can we expect our Boys on our PLC's to work together if the adults don't set a good example in their work?

(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

Snug. It sounds like a perfectly acceptable service project. As long as it doesn't conflict with BSA fundraising rules Blancmange mentioned. I think it does though.

Even if it doesn't meet the fundraising rule, you have a remarkable child in your troop who can conceive a fundraiser like that.

Furthermore, Star and Life Service Work does not have all the rules an Eagle Project has. For example Star and Life Service hours can be done for a BSA camp. An Eagle Project cannot be.

Uniformity encourages pride. However a traditional BSA Dress Uniform. Khaki shirt, kerchief,slide, pants, socks, belt.ect. Are a wonderful goal if kids can afford it. I believe a full dress uniform tells a wonderful story about a Scout(er) that a Troop T shirt cannot. However. Uniforming is subject to financial constraints and the BSAs uniform code allows for that.

To close my windbagging, its up to unit choice as to what "Full Uniform" is. The BSA would LIKE full "Class A" uniforms but doesn't require it.(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

What reason did the Committee member give for his unease with the project?

I'd also like to state that this Committee member is out of his jurisdiction.

As an SPL I never believed "Boy led" meant " no adults". Now as an ASM, I try to not lead my Scouts.

To me. Boy led is Boys do the planning. Boys do the execution of their plans. Boys handle a majority of the discipline. (Positive Peer pressure!) Adults are to mentor, advise ,coach and be a good role model. To let them walk down the path to failure, and to help them learn from that failure. I don't intervene unless there is a safety violation. I trust the Boys to make good decisions or ask for help most of the time. Freeing up my energy to proactivly deal with the few times they make bad choices.(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

As an SPL I never believed "Boy led" meant " no adults". Now as an ASM, I try to not lead my Scouts.

To me. Boy lead is Boys do the planning. Boys do the execution of their plans. Boys handle a majority of the discipline. (Positive Peer pressure!) Adults are to mentor, advise ,coach and be a good role model. To let them walk down the path to failure, and to help them learn from that failure. I don't intervene unless their is a safety violation. I trust the Boys to make good decisions or ask for help most of the time. Freeing up my energy to proactivly deal with the few times they make bad choices.

Welcome!

What approach works in a situation depends on the adult and the kid in question. In my experience in Scouting there hasn't been a catch all, silver bullet to every solution. Most of my experience is from the Scout side of things.

Some kids won't respond to any sort of discipline or punishments, and simply require time to grow up.

Brevah, I'm sure some kids do respond positively to push ups or other physical punishments, it's enduring use in multiple organizations would be a testament to such a method. But I don't think you quite understood what I meant, so perhaps I should explain myself more clearly.

And you raised an excellent point. Words are just as strong as actions. If a talk with a Scout isn't done the right way, it certainly will cause resentment from the Scout, because they will feel they are being unfairly chastised.

Some adults simply cannot talk to a Teenager without chastising, accusing, and insinuating something. Being 18 years old. I don't have that problem. Children don't FEEL like children. They expect to be treated like an adult, even when their actions do not warrant such treatment.

What happens if you tell a kid to do push-ups and he doesn't do it? What would be the next step?(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

When I was a Scout, (all of 9 months ago) My Scout troop did not use Push ups or similiar physical punishment. It still does not.

My theory against Push ups and Physical punishment is simple. Most Boys will Resent the person making them do the punishment, and their resentment will cause them to miss the point of doing the push ups. The idea of any sort of discipline is to get their behavior to change.

Most 11-17 year old teenagers ARE NOT going to go: "Man! Mr. ABC is right! I shouldn't forget to wear Scout socks, be late to the meeting, call people bad names, *insert situation here*" It will simply breed resentment, they might actually do it again out of spite, and it hurts the trust dynamic between the boys and their leaders, adult or Scout.

In my experience, a polite, firm conversation, with a heavy dose of, "This is your warning" is generally enough for any behavior infraction. Sometimes it's better to have a deep conversation and find out what the underlying CAUSE of the action is. Treat the disease, not just the symptoms.

(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

Hello! I've been scanning this wonderful forum for a few days, and decided I couldn't hold off on adding my two cents to some of these conversations.

I received my Arrow of Light and crossed over into the BSA in 2005. I didn't really want to,(I thought Boy Scouts would be nerdy, and didn't really enjoy Cubs) but my parents wanted me to attend a meeting to see if I'd like it. Needless to say, My parents were right, and I earned My Eagle Scout in 2011. I had the honor to serve as a Quartermaster, Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, Senior Patrol Leader, Guide,and Instructor. Now being an Adult, I am an Assistant Scoutmaster. Earlier this Month, I completed my IOLS and Scoutmaster Fundamentals.

A bit about my Troop:It has a group of dedicated adults. 1 Scoutmaster, 4 Assistant Scoutmasters, and the various Committee positions. We have about 60 registered Boys and maybe 40 who regularly attend Troop Functions. Our retention of both our Oldest Boys and Youngest is pretty excellent. Our retention of the 13-14 year old Boys has, in my mind, been our biggest issue. Our Scoutmaster is pretty new, but he's got energy and enthusaism, and has hit the ground running since starting in January. One of my peeves is that our Eagles don't stay around after they earn their Eagles. Out of the 8 Boys from my Troop who got their Eagles in 2011, I am the only one who consistantly attends any Troop Functions.

Overall due to my college schedule, is to simply provide assistance when I can. Many of the Senior Boys go to me with help with their positions, and many of the Eagles come to me for advice on their projects. Officially, I'm not tasked with any specific duties as an Assistant Scoutmaster, I mostly just have the title.

In closing, I'm looking forward to learning from the many experienced members on this board, and hopefully I'll be able to give some different perspective, being a newly minted adult and now Assistant Scoutmaster.

Yours in Scouting,

Sentinel