Sentinel947

"That is my other issue is that by forming 1 patrol and "making" these boys the PL and APL, no one else in the patrols that were eager to be on the ballot get a chance" -Roadkill Patrol

" I'd have open elections, your SPL and ASPL, who are both NYLT Trained correct?, shouldn't have issues winning a fair and open election." -Sentinel947

Again, I don't advocate PoR appointment, ever. I think that would be the worst direction you could go. If I was in your shoes, I'd get the boys together, explain the situation, and let them come up with the solution, moderating as need be. I think your SPL and ASPL would be able to win a fair election. They sound experienced and NYLT trained. I think the Boys collectively will make the right decision. If the other kids want a POR perhaps they can become den chiefs in local Cub Scout Dens.

Have I explained better this time? If I havn't post again!

Yours in Service!

Sentinel.(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

I think Society would expect a Scout to hold a door open for them, help the elderly neighbor cross the street ( haha stereotyping!) ect.

The Running List:

Flag Ceremonies

First Aid

Knot Tying

Light a Fire

Friendly/Helpful

My first post was hastily done, allow me to expand on it.

First off, I would move down to one patrol of 9. I'd have open elections, your SPL and ASPL, who are both NYLT Trained correct?, shouldn't have issues winning a fair and open election. Is there currently a patrol leader or APL? How far away are the standard elections in the Troop? Perhaps I need to read your OP more clearly.

As for recruiting issues, there are many threads here on the subject, I urge you to look over them and possibly have a chat with your DE. Den Chiefs are great for it, if a Cub Scout pack/den wants one, and one of your Boys is willing to step up to the plate.

You seem to be a Boy Led Troop, which I applaud that. Be sure to include all the Boys in this process, so everybody's interests and concerns get addressed.

Lastly, I think keeping the SPL and ASPL and then having one Patrol with a Patrol leader is too many leaders and not enough followers. There isn't enough, In my opinion, going on in a 9 boy troop to warrant that many being in charge. There could be conflict between the SPL and the PL. So unless you HAVE to, or are already in the middle of a term, I wouldn't go that route. I think your Scouts will get much more out of being a PL and APL than Boys being an SPL and ASPL over a 7 man Patrol. Just my humble opinion.

I hope all goes well! Keep us updated!

Yours in Service!

Sentinel947(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

With a troop of 9 Boys, I'd highly recommend 1 patrol. That is a sticky situation in general. I think making the SPL and ASPL be a PL and APL will help them MORE than managing 1 patrol from the outside as SPL, ASPL.

I second the above comment!

Boys in your troop with younger brothers in a cub den are great choices. Other than that, you could ask boys who you think have an aptitude for it to do the job. Out of all the Scout PoR this one I have the least experience in, so I'll leave this to more senior Scouters.

Yours in Service,

Sentinel

OneHour? Have you ever considered splitting the troop into two separate groups? My troop did it about 15 years ago when it got that large. We're still fairly large now, 50-60 Boys.

Possible yes. My troops system doesn't really encourage it though.

I second Eagle 732. We don't have time. We attend enough Summer Camps, and have enough merit badge counselors in our troop and the surrounding area for any boy who wants to get badges done.

I think one shouldn't lump the Eagle Scout award, which takes multiple years to earn, and requires some serious effort, to pinewood derby car winners. But whatever floats your boat.

Personally, I will always consider myself an Eagle Scout. I'm proud that I earned that rank, on my own initiative, with the support of some fantastic role models, with the help and company of some great friends. To be the rank symbolizes what I did in Scouting, and the ideals I learned and carry with me, and that, is once, and always.

That being said, I think the program in general has a problem, it's easier to emphasis the rank of Eagle Scout, yet the values and experience are what truly matter. Devoid of those values and experiences, the rank is nothing.

With all respect,

Sentinel

Basement, just focus on providing an excellent program to your own Boys. There isn't anything to do about this Bragging SM.

Look what I found!

http://youngadults.about.com/od/collegeprep/qt/meritbadges.htm

Thoughts?

Basement: I personally, in my time in the BSA (only 8 years) have never met an awarded Eagle who did not meet the minimuim requirements. Perhaps I don't get out enough.

Pioneer, how many "counterfeit" Eagles have you met?

I also think we've also lost focus in this discussion on how many Boys pass through Scouts, reach their Eagles, and become successful businessmen,soldiers, civic leaders, lawyers, ect, ect.

I disagree. I like the Eagle Projects. I think it's important for Scouts to give something to their community. Just my two cents.

I think Beavahs points about recognizing Scouts, and encouraging them is certainly valid, and not contradicting the BSA.

Thanks Beavah!

"I expect Eagle Scouts to have character and to never use terms such as "tarnishing the reputation of Eagles" or any other better-than-thou"

I used that term in quotation marks because I saw it in another thread. Someone was discussing how business leaders in his community no longer give special considerations to Eagles because people are "tarnishing" the award. Being an Eagle Scout of 2011, I don't believe minimium requirement Eagle Scouts "tarnish" the award.

Yours in Service,

Sentinel.(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

Thanks Bnelon! So yes, another question is "What do you expect of your Scouting program and how it influences the boys?"

bnelon, I am NOT advocating changing requirements, or denying people the rank of Eagle Scout, canonizing them, or anything else you've said. I believe when a Scout finishes the requirements, they are an Eagle. Your points about adding requirements, denying signatures or the like are completely correct. I am not arguing that.

HOWEVER, the POINT of the BSA is to "to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

Whether we like it or not, Eagle Scouts represent the BSA program to the outside, SO,

How do we shape our boys to become Men, specifcally our Eagle Scouts, who make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes? How do we instill in them the values of the Oath and Law?

Obviously the answer is the Methods of Scouting. But when the Advancement aspect is the one getting all the love, and a forum full of Scoutmasters, Committee Chairpeople and Scouters are screaming about how Scouts, especially some Eagle Scouts, seem to exhibiting a lack of the ideals of Scouting, lack of outdoor knowledge or experience, they have fights with their Scoutmasters, and their Personal growth in the Oath and Law seems lacking, it begs my question,

How do we improve the other Methods of Scouting? How do we make the program better catch the "Minimialist" Eagle Scouts. How can we convince them in a way that is fun to do more? Attend more trips, lead more? Encouraging them to give more to their communities and troops?

I apologize if anyones eyeballs are bleeding...

Yours in Service,

Sentinel.

bnelon: I'm not talking about Eagle Scout requirements, I'm talking about Character development. What kind of people are we trying to produce with the program?

Old Grey, I approve of what you said wholeheartedly.

Baden, I think you have good points. What is an example of a weak Eagle Project? I agree that we should want our Eagle Scouts to feel as if they accomplished something. Even better is the Leader, Citizen and Outdoorsman that an Eagle Scout should be.

(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

What do we expect from our Eagle Scouts? Besides the obvious requirements such as merit badges, Eagle Projects,ect. What do we expect from them? What kind of men are we trying to shape with our programs? In the case of Eagle Mill Scouts "tarnishing the reputation of Eagles" what solutions can we collectively come up with? Ultimately we cannot change what other units do, but we can ensure that we produce Eagle Scouts who exemplify what we expect Eagle Scouts to be.

Overall Standards are going to vary from Troop to Troop and place to place. I feel like for the most part though, Minimal work is frowned upon.

Growing up in the current era of Scouting, being an 18 year old Eagle and Scouter, I'm quite interested in hearing everyone's opinions on the matter, and how to produce Eagles who exemplify the Scout Oath and Law.

Yours in Service,

Sentinel(This message has been edited by Sentinel947)

I think our time as Scouters is better spent making our Eagles into the young men we want them to be, rather than raving about other peoples troops or pointlessly arguing the stupid nonsense of the day in Politics. I love this forum, but I sometimes wish there was more discussion of Scouting, particularly the OUTING aspect.

As a Political Science major, I enjoy that my object of study gets coverage all the time. Unfortunately, this time of year is hard for someone like myself, who doesn't have a party affiliation. I want to find out what Obama and Romney plan to do, yet they both seem to want to talk about anything else, mainly, how bad the other is.

My Scout Troop went to Northern Tier this past summer, and due to financial reasons (Read, College Tuition) I didn't attend. To hear all the awesome experiences my closest friends had without me was a pain.