SemperParatus

Christy, welcome to the world of cub scouting.

Its a lot like girl scouts, only its boys, and ah the terms are different, and ah the advancement requirements are different, and ah the activities are different, and ah the motto is different, and the ah purposes are different, and ah the handbook is different, and ah the uniform is different, and ah the fundraisers are different, and ah well...its a lot like girl scouts.

Hope your son has a great time.

Your the committee chair - do what is right. Reconvene a new board of review (you can chair it, assuming the boy is not related to you) and instruct them on what they can and cannot do (like making up new requirements). You have the authority to end this nonsense and this is the perfect test case for doing that.

"I noticed that the preist was asking a lot more about our Pack than he has in the past."

I suspect the youth protection issues in the Catholic Church over the past decade, have filtered down to this priest to be very careful about the selection of volunteers to work with youth.

In response to these issues, the Baltimore Archdiocese requires all adults (and now older boys, 14+) who work with youth in a capacity affiliated with the church to take a youth protection training course called STAND (can't remember what that stands for). This is pretty similar to the BSA youth protection training and our troop requires both training for any adult that may come in contact with a youth (pretty much everybody).

Perhaps mention to the priest the screening process that the CC and COR have performed, the unit's requirement that all leaders go through BSA youth protection training, and your appreciation for his taking a strong interest in the pack. He may not realize that his is overseeing the only pack in town and what an important community outreach program this has become for his parish.

Welcome to the forum.!

Sorry your son's first experience in scouting was a disappointing one. While you certainly have legitimate complaints, I can't help but wonder if your husband's tales of his scouting exploits as a youth may have possibly set some high expectations that were all too quickly dashed by an unorganized and 'not fun' camping trip. I think it is great that you and your husband have been prepping him for the scouting life, but sometimes our memories can embellish just how wonderful some of those camping experiences really were.

Nevertheless, you do have cause for concern.

"when my husband asked about the scheduled activities... he was told they decided just to let the kids have fun!"

This is the biggest one in my mind. Some kind of planned activity is essential on camping trips, especially when the scouts are young and need to be most engaged. Someone either was too lazy or dropped the ball. A weekend of hanging out is not what Webelos need. The Webelos leader should be working to prepare them for boy scouting and that requires the boys being involved in some of the trip planning, setting up in an orderly fashion, being engaged in some skill development, and working as a team. Sitting around doing nothing, or playing football all weekend, is not scouting.

"but my son didn't know any of the other boys because he was new and no one wanted to include my son (they just didn't know him). So... this left him on the outside wanting to cling to my husband and me"

If this was one of your son's first activities with the den, then the Webelos Leader should have made significant efforts to ensure that your scout was made to feel welcome and included. Planned activities would certainly have helped in this respect as well. Your son showed up as an outsider and left as an outsider. A concerned leader would have recognized that your scout was not participating and would have taken steps to encourage the other scouts to accept him in their games.

"He then informed us that he didn't think he wanted to cub scout next year....that totally broke my heart."

It breaks my heart just hearing your story. But, this is a good time to teach him a lesson in persistence. Both you and your husband sound like strong scouting proponents and know that something was off here. You know it can be better and will be better as he become more comfortable with the other boys and his expectations (and as you become more involved in making sure his experience is better).

"How should I go about voicing my concerns.... I am more than willing to help.... I just don't want anyone upset or to feel I am critizing them unfairly. Am I being unreasonable or should I put a plan in place to resolve this issue. If this is just a group of un-organized folks .... should I look for another den?"

I think you first need to figure out if this trip was an aberration or not. Attending the next few den meetings will certainly help you to see if the Webelos leaders are engaging these boys and following the scouting program. It should not take long (2-3 meetings should do it) to determine whether the bad experience is likely to continue or was just a fluke.

Definitely put a plan in place to resolve the issue.

1. Speak with your son. Assure him that scouting will be better than that. Encourage him to give it some time.

2. Speak with the Webelos Leader and offer your (or your husband's) assistance as an assistant leader (where you can help plan engaging meetings and activities).

3. Maybe offer to head up an upcoming den/pack event so you can make it special enough that your son (and all of the other boys) will say, "wow...scouting is cool".

4. Don't be afraid to check out other dens and packs. There is a wide spectrum of how the scouting program is implemented. You want to make sure your son is given the best opportunity to be engaged in an active and fun environment that will help him to grow and find friendships.

Best of luck to you, your husband and, most importantly, your boy.

All great ideas so far.

I have found that punching things up a bit when you have a good size group like that, can really help to create a positive experience. For example...

Rather than sitting around doing some first aid practice, have a disaster day drill with multiple dilemmas, fake blood, command center, etc.

During a hike, maybe have some boy scouts stationed to arrive on trail at different times to impart wisdom to the webelos. Maybe there are twelve stops along the way with each memorialized by a discussion of each of the points of the Scout Law. Before withdrawing back to the woods, the scout could leave the hikers a token of remembrance (e.g., two ropes tied together symbolizing loyalty, a penny to symbolize thrifty, etc.)

A search and rescue drill can be much more than a game of hide-and-go-seek. Make it seem real to them and it will be much more interesting than wandering around in the woods pretending to look for someone. Uh-oh, has anyone seen Johnny lately...

A dessert competition is a gotta-have. Everybody loves dessert.

If you can include some sporting activity - volleyball, ultimate, softball - go for it.

Have fun.

If your unit requires every person that attends every meeting to be 100% outfitted in the full field uniform, then I think you need to bring your concerns to them. Are exceptions ever made? If no, then I would suggest brown pumps rather than blue - it goes much better with olive.

Not to go off track, but why are committee members needed at every meeting?

Jerry,

Welcome.

Your first post is an excellent example of positive enthusiasm. I hope you share that often here and with the boys you work with.

Best of luck in your new position.

Welcome aboard.

I wear Adidas.

Sounds like a good decision was made. Sometimes a change of scenery can make all the difference.

Congratulations to the Kid!

If it helps the boy get involved in scouting, I am all for it.

fling,

In this case, it was a one-time change. The patrols had become a bit ragged - some were very small, some were very large, there had been a large influx of new scouts the prior two years, the scouts felt the patrol arrnagements were getting stale, and just about everybody wanted a change. They had always been mixed-age, it was just that over time the patrols had become rather 'unequal' in terms of size, experience, etc. So, the PLC decided to take action.

The previous troop I was involved in had a pretty good PLC. Here is how they did a patrol revamp.

It was a rather large troop (80+ kids). They created a big board with 8 patrols. Within each patrol, they had slots for 2-3 Eagle/Life Scouts, 2-3 Star scouts, 2-3 FC scouts, 2-3 SC scouts and 2-3 TFs. Each scout's name was placed in a hat and as their name was drawn they walked up to the board and wrote their name in a slot corresponding to their current rank. Their was a lot of talking going on during the process as kids made deals to hold slots open or close them up. After all scouts were accounted for, we allowed up to 2 trades per patrol. A trade had to be requested by the scouts involved and could be made between the same rank or 1 rank higher or lower. There were a couple of trades, but not too many. Scouts could always request a transfer to another patrol, but none did. It seemed to work pretty well - best buddies stayed together, for the most part the patrols were pretty equal in experience and skills, and everybody felt it was a fair system since everyone got to go with people they wanted. Even the last kid's name from the hat had choices from at least five patrols since enough slots were provided based on the distribution of ranks in the troop.

I am of the crowd that thinks its time we move on past the school recruiting concept. More and more school administrators are ducking out on this. Who needs them.

Run the best unit in town, arrange your own recruiting night at your meeting place, put out some signs, take out an ad in the local paper, have the kids wear their uniforms to school and church, be active and visible in the community and those who are interested will definitely come.

Based on my wife's experience as an elementary school teacher, a flyer in the backpack has about a 20% chance of being seen and read by today's parents. Recruiting is all about increasing our odds of getting noticed. An active and exciting unit that is out and about in the community will draw boys in much easier than any piece of paper ever could.

So sorry to hear about that.

Just to clarify, your son has decided to drop scouts because of poor unit leadership...not because the uniform is dorky, the icons are outdated, the merit badges aren't cool enough, and his friends think scouting is bogus. Right?

Here's hoping that maybe after a couple of months, he might miss the good parts of scouting and give another troop a try. I certainly hope so.

"the den has shrunk from 13 boys to 4 in the last two years"

The proof of the problem really is in the pudding. I suspect no other den in your pack has experienced a 70% decline over such a short period of time and yours is not a transient pack with people coming and going on a frequent basis.

Whatever the multitude of issues and complaints, the fact of the matter is that he is leading this den out of existence. I am sure he has plenty of answers to your questions and reasons for what he does and how he does them. It really does not matter what they are, the outcome of his den leadership has been woefully deficient. While there may be some legitimate dropouts due to families moving out of the area, it cannot be anywhere close to 9 out of 13. He has failed and you need to get a new den leader if you hope to salvage a scouting experience for the remaining boys.

Mostly, a good night's sleep.

Just as BSA national can bar membership of certain people, a scout troop can do the same. The Chartered Organization can establish its membership policies with respect to troop members. The Troop Committee may act under the authority of the CO, but the institutional head of the CO has the final say in all matters.

I suppose the question that is at the front of my mind is why is the boy wanting to come back? Has there been some change of heart and attitude? I would suggest the SM, CC and COR sit down with the boy and his parents to discuss the situation, better understand the reasons for the return and communicate that the past behaviorial issues must not be repeated. I am all for giving a boy a second chance, a third chance, fourth chance... I hope the other adults can see their way clear to help this young man.

"Its time for the boys to learn how elections are run."

I couldn't agree more.

First, each scout should declare victory. Then they should bring in the lawyers to examine voter fraud, hanging chads and disenfranchisement. Next they should bring in the spinmeisters to throw the real dirt, so they can look relatively clean throughout the process. Even if one is declared the victor, the loser should never admit defeat and constantly remind the troop that the election was stolen from him by gestapo tactics and he is a poor, downtrodden victim. He could have some of his former SPL buddies snipe at the new SPL throughout his tenure - calling him a liar and a thief and the devil. The loser could also try and grow a beard to up his 'cool' factor for the next round of elections. If all else fails, threaten to move the troop to Canada.

Just a few random thoughts off the top of my head.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Sometimes, I just can't resist...

There are some obviously deep-seated concerns here. I will try not to make any wise cracks, but clearly the issue is not black or whitey (or even brown for that matter). The CM is definitely way behind the 8-ball on this one and G2SS has reared its ugly head again. I appreciate CNYS airing this unit's dirty laundry for all of us. It definitely gets me thinking out of the box or under wearever. While the crime may not be as hanes as some may say, still it stretches the bounds of appropriate behavior. Many moons ago, it may have been okay, but now he may appear on a wanted poster ior worse. It is easy to jump to conclusions, butt ocksing more questions will certainly help us get to the bottom of the issue.

Thong you very much for tolerating me.

OH,

That is some heavy duty shoveling, buddy. I think you have emptied the thesaurus or at least put a dent in it.

(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

"Game time! Everybody pair up in groups of threes!"

"It's bad luck to be superstitious"

and how about some Yogi Berraisms...

"This is like deja vu all over again."

"You can observe a lot just by watching."

"He must have made that before he died." -- Referring to a Steve McQueen movie.

"I want to thank you for making this day necessary." -- On Yogi Berra Appreciation Day in St. Louis in 1947.

"I'd find the fellow who lost it, and, if he was poor, I'd return it." -- When asked what he would do if he found a million dollars.

"Think! How the hell are you gonna think and hit at the same time?"

"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there."

"I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early."

"If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else."

"If you can't imitate him, don't copy him."

"You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I'm not hungry enough to eat six."

"Baseball is 90% mental -- the other half is physical."

"It was impossible to get a conversation going; everybody was talking too much."

"Slump? I ain't in no slump. I just ain't hitting."

"A nickel isn't worth a dime today."

"Nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded."

"It gets late early out there." -- Referring to the bad sun conditions in left field at the stadium.

"Glen Cove." -- Referring to Glenn Close on a movie review television show.

Once, Yogi's wife Carmen asked, "Yogi, you are from St. Louis, we live in New Jersey, and you played ball in New York. If you go before I do, where would you like me to have you buried?" Yogi replied, "Surprise me."

"Do you mean now?" -- When asked for the time.

"I take a two hour nap, from one o'clock to four."

"If you come to a fork in the road, take it."

"You give 100 percent in the first half of the game, and if that isn't enough in the second half you give what's left."

"90% of the putts that are short don't go in."

"I made a wrong mistake."

"Texas has a lot of electrical votes." -- During an election campaign, after George Bush stated that Texas was important to the election.

"Thanks, you don't look so hot yourself." -- After being told he looked cool.

"I always thought that record would stand until it was broken."

"Yeah, but we're making great time!" -- In reply to "Hey Yogi, I think we're lost."

"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them."

"Why buy good luggage? You only use it when you travel."

"It's never happened in the World Series competition, and it still hasn't."

"How long have you known me, Jack? And you still don't know how to spell my name." -- Upon receiving a check from Jack Buck made out to "bearer."

"I'd say he's done more than that." -- When asked if first baseman Don Mattingly had exceeded expectations for the current season.

"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win."

"He can run anytime he wants. I'm giving him the red light." -- On the acquisition of fleet Ricky Henderson.

"I never blame myself when I'm not hitting. I just blame the bat, and if it keeps up, I change bats. After all, if I know it isn't my fault that I'm not hitting, how can I get mad at myself?"

"It ain't the heat; it's the humility."

"The towels were so thick there I could hardly close my suitcase."

"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours."

"I didn't really say everything I said."

Your right, a void would not help. It would create too much of a gap, and we would all have a sinking feeling.

"We cannot allow a mine shaft gap!" ~ General Buck Turgidson

That is a very good question.

I'll admit that as a SM and a CC, I hate surprises at BORs. A 'failure' at a BOR is pretty much unacceptable to me, and when it does occur, it is too often due to a failure of the BOR to carry out their responsibilities in a manner that is in the best interests of the boy. I have seen adults with an axe to grind over something a boy did months earlier, use the BOR as a soapbox and a means to mete out their twisted sense of discipline. Certainly, a boy needs to be able to demonstrate and explain his scout spirit, but the time alloted in a BOR does not support extended conversations about specific actions that need to be addressed. I get the sense from your post that you have a number of concerns that would require significant discussions before you would gain a level of comfort.

You seem to be a very reasonable person and dedicated scouter, but it sounds like you are predisposed not to award rank, and so may not be walking into the room with a completely open mind. If the SM signed off on scout spirit, then you should probably address your concerns with him directly.

If I were in your shoes, I would not sit on the BOR.

Not trying to ditch the hole question, but having posters pitted against each other leaves me with a hollow feeling, bordering on depression.

Good story.

Playing old games, cheering old cheers, singing songs. How delightfully dorky and yet so fun that they crave more. Have a great time watching your son and these boys grow over the next few years.