SemperParatus

I seriously doubt these dens have had the same 13 boys in them since Tigers. Somewhere, sometime, someone must have joined and been added to the den. Maybe a den went from 12 to 13 boys last year. Or maybe they were previously at 14 and then someone dropped. Why were new members allowed in the past, but this boy was shut out? I would think a member of your Chartered Organization (a church?) should certainly have access to a youth program offered by that Organization. Sad your pack would not take a new boy in. Sadder still that a parent would behave badly. Saddest is that I am not sure any lessons have been learned here.

I would take this a step further. Since the committee is okay with the scouts doing evaluation paperwork, the committee should be okay with doing the same for all the adult volunteers. The CC can complete an evaluation of the SM and all committee members monthly. And of course, the SM can write a monthly evaluation report of the SMAs. I am sure you have some adults that don''t always do everything they are supposed to do, and it is about time for them to suffer some consequences as a result.

"We can lick gravity, but sometimes the paperwork can be overwhelming" ~ Wernher von Braun

E,

That was quite a mooving tale. It had me udderly glued to the screen. I had to reread your post at least four times to stomach what I herd you tell that boy. Certainly, you have steered him in the right direction and I would steak my life on the bet that he has fond memories of the trip as well. While I am sure you caught some beef for that comment later, it sounds like you milked it for all it was worth. Bully for you!

10 Rules for a New Den Leader...

1. Have the meetings outside of the house. A house is typically way to comfortable of an environment resulting in boys behaving like they are at home. Plus, you don''t want your stuff getting busted up. A classroom at the church should work well, since they usually have little more than some tables and chairs, minimizing distractions.

2. Set the expectations at the outset with the scouts and parents. Don''t be afraid to require a parent to attend to keep their boy in line, or to call a parent to come pick their scout up early when he becomes a discipline problem.

3. When frazzled, go outside. Today, a boy spends most of his waking hours inside, sitting down - usually as a matter of compulsion (i.e., school). When they are outside - playing games, working on advancement - they are happier and have more room to spread out. Annoying each other and going wild is much easier in a confined setting than the great outdoors.

4. Plan every minute with engaging activity. Keeping them actively involved minimizes the opportunity for them to ''go crazy''. Sure, some will claim boredom and seek to spice things up, but if the others are engaged and having a good time with the activity, he will find himself alone in his endeavor.

5. Can the snack. A boy will not starve during the course of an hour to hour ''n half den meeting. The 10-15 minutes or so of feeding time is not necessary - they can eat when they get home. This will save money, time, clean-up and grape-stealing, letting you focus more on scouting activity.

6. Get trained as soon as you can. Understand the BSA policies, but even better use the training as an opportunity to network with others to see what works for them. Believe me, you are not the first to pull your hair out after a chaotic den meeting.

7. Teach respect. You can''t change how they behave at home, school or the playground, but you can establish the behaviorial environment at your den meeting. Together, make a list of no more than 5 rules that will always be followed at the den meeting. When they call out ''don''t pee on others'', answer firmly with ''as an eight year old, you surely must know that is an inappropriate answer. In the future, I would ask you to use respectful language during our meeting.'' Then move on.

8. Get a good den chief. A den chief is a boy scout (not cub) that will assist the den leader with meetings. While they are not responsible for discipline, the presence of a 13-14 mature boy in uniform acting as a scout should act, is an awful powerful example for the younger boys to follow.

9. Don''t give up. The first meetings are always the hardest, as everyone attempts to scope out the territory in terms of what they can get away with. Over time, you will come to understand each boy better - what sets him off, what keeps him engaged, etc. - making it easier to deal with them as a group. Even after a couple years of doing it, there will still be days you have to wonder what went wrong. Scratch them up to living and learning, and keep at it.

10. Have fun. Make it fun for the boys. Make it fun for you. Don''t hassle the small stuff. If it ain''t fun for everybody, what''s the point of doing it?

We had 5 scouts do the Chase sailing, which runs out of Bayport. They left as boys and came back as men. They loved every minute of it.

I am sure the scout would not complain if he received a nice new crisp $100 bill.

Is #1 still alive? Maybe have him come back for a special presentation to #100.

Once you're at Greenbelt Park, you can hike to a subway station that will take you anywhere you want to go in DC.

Leave the cars behind - you will get lost.

The folks above have covered most of the highpoints, but I will offer something higher still.

A few miles up the road from Greenbelt Park is the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. The first Sunday of every month they open their launch pad to the public for model rocket launches.

Just some ideas to throw into the mix...

A quick search of 'beaded pattern Eagle scout badge' didn't produce any results.

How about a small leather/beaded frame that includes a sepia-colored print-out of Rockwell's A Great Moment?

I would incorporate some symbolic leather wrapping (e.g., twelve wraps for the scout law, or wraps corresponding to your unit number with each digit wrapping separated by a marking).

The wrappings could tail into a grouping of eagle feathers that dangle from the stick.

Maybe have a small dangling beaded pouch that includes a super secret special gift for the current honoree that only the eagles know about (e.g., a Silver Eagle Dollar).

Definitely have the previous Eagle Scout walk the stick up to open the ceremony.

Great idea. Good luck with it.

How many Eagle scout applications do you know of have been turned down by national?

I would say there is a big difference between 'presentation' and 'announcing'. I think you were wrong in not letting this young man share his exciting news with the troop. I think you owe him an apology.

Are any of us really surprised by this?

BYORS

You have a headcase on your hands. Things will only get worse. Giving her a job is not the answer - the only thing worse than a headcase is a headcase with some degree of authority. The CC and COR should invite her to a meeting and tell her she is no longer welcome at any Troop/committee meeting. Revoke her membership and e-mail privileges. If she decides her son can no longer participate because of the consequences of her actions, then so be it. She will likely move onto another troop and the pattern will be repeated.

We had a similar problem a few months ago. It is amazing how some people thrive on generating controversy and trouble.

It sounds like you have plenty of reason to replace her as the den leader. You should discuss the issues with the Cubmaster and Chartered Organization Rep and come to a consensus on the decision and the approach to be taken. Usually these things are best handled with a sitdown between the leader, the CC, COR and Cubmaster. It may very well be that she has no interest in being a leader and only did so because no one else volunteered. If that is the case, removal may be a relief to her, making the meeting easier. There is also the possibility that she just doesn't understand the role for which she has volunteered. Training may be the answer, although I suspect this is more about her just not caring very much. With the added drama of the father, you should be prepared that this family may very well walk from your program upon her removal. That is unfortunate for the child(ren).

Welcome to Scouter forum.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

"If the SM says NO, then (assuming local policy is letters of recommendation) SM peruses the letters, identifies the problem before he signs the Eagle app to send it to Council."

In our council, letters of recommendation are always returned to the unit's advancement chairman who is instructed to bring them to the EBOR sealed to be read only by the EBOR members immediately prior to convening the board (not the SM and not the candidate). They are then immediately destroyed (some EBOR chairmen will choose to give to the Eagle Scout after the BOR). I could be wrong, but I thought that was pretty standard.

Likewise, the application getting signed usually precedes the reference request letters going out, since the application is first certified by council (correct dates, etc.) before an EBOR is even scheduled. Our council recommends holding off on sending out reference requests until after the application has been certified by council as being complete and accurate.

I suppose every council is a little different.(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

There was a very brief article in this morning's paper about a 46 year old Scouter that was found dead in his tent at Broad Creek Scout Reservation (MD). Evidently, it was a training weekend and he had complained about not feeling well and retired to his tent about 9 pm the night before. The article did not mention the gentleman's name.

Having just turned 45, it got me thinking that that really is not a bad way to go - doing what you truly love, surrounded by God's beautiful creation, secluded in the coziness of my familiar tent, with the scent of campfire wafting in the air. Sounds very peaceful.

Moving a scout to a different patrol without discussing with him first is a pretty heavy-handed approach. Whether done by the SPL, the PLC or the SM, whoever acts in such a manner is bound to catch some flack at some point in time.

On the bright side, it should be encouraging that the SPL felt empowered to do this at all. Now, he is learning a very valuable lesson of leadership - its best to communicate with other leaders, obtain as much information about the situation as possible, and secure some consensus before making a decision that impacts others.

Now is the opportune time for the SM to sit down with the SPL and impart the leadership lesson(s) to be taken from this experience. For the meeting, the SM should have some other 'pending' troop issues at the ready to immediately discuss with the SPL and determine a plan for PLC action - i.e., gather facts, discuss and communicate, build consensus, decide and act. That will help the SPL get right back on the bike so as not to focus on the recent disappointment.

Mom won't camp. Dad can't camp. How 'bout the nanny?

Since you know them well, why not play a guilt card. "I will look after Johnny like he is my own son. No? What's the matter, don't you trust me?"

'Does anybody have any ideas on how to help Logan have a good experience and get off to a positive running start?'

I would say that having a caring and devoted father like yourself, that is willing to step up to help and understands the great role scouting can play in his child's development, is the best start your boy could ask for. A nice healthy conversation with the scoutmaster (and the other troop members) at the outset, about the challenges you and your son face, should satify curiosities and hopefully, set the stage for being treated with respect and concern during those difficult moments that will come.

Welcome back to scouting. I do hope your son enjoys his scouting experience.

Okay...the one piece of toilet paper idea has reared its ugly head. I hesitate to post this, but I have been employing this method for years. Here's how you do it.

1. Get your one aquare of TP.

2. Fold it in half.

3. Fold it in half again.

4. In the corner of the fold (where the folds intersect), tear off a piece from the corner, no bigger than a fingernail. Keep that piece at the ready...you will use it later.

5. Open the square of TP, you should have a hole in the center.

6. Stick your finger through the hole (the longest finger works best).

7. Swipe thoroughly with your finger.

8. At this point, your finger may be a bit messy. As you remove the TP square, use it to clean the finger by gently wiping the finger from its base to its tip.

9. Taking that little corner piece, clean underneath your finger nail.

Sheryl Crow says a Scout is clean and thrify.

"I am already 2 hours from MY council's service center (90 mins. from neighboring council)."

You will be so much closer to the new service centers - they are right there on your computer screen or other end of the phone. Open 24/7 with always the right answers and exceptional service. Can call, chat, research, download, upload and accomplish any admin task from the comfort of your home. Consider the last time you went down to your council office...couldn't the visit have been accomplished easier and quicker if the online systems were in place to eliminate the trip altogether.

"How would you handle OA Lodges?"

The existing lodges could certainly still exist. Heck, new lodges could be created - no longer being yoked to a council. In my imaginary world, the lodge organization would be clustered around the local scout camp, where the lodge would serve as an even more important caretaker of the property.

The volunteer structure at the local level would also continue to exist, with a greater emphasis on the representation by local units, rather than good ol' boys doing the bidding for paid suits downtown.

Trust funds for scout camp maintenance and improvements could be established and initially funded with the monies currently held by the local councils (which will be dissolved) and by selling off the council office buildings (how's that for a switcheroo).

Its the business side of scouting that needs to be revamped and brought current.

(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

Monogamous, they mate for life until the death of one mate. Eyries, large nests lined with twigs, soft mosses, grasses, and feathers, about 2 feet deep and 5 feet wide that they build at the top of sturdy trees grow larger (about 10 feet wide and several tons) when they add new nesting materials each year while repairing before breeding. Nest shapes are determined by whether or not sticks are placed in deep, vertical forks (conical nests), ground or level branches (disk-shaped nests), or tree trunks that suddenly branch into smaller upright branches (bowl-shaped nests). They usually nest in trees, but sometimes on cliffs, and often within 100 miles of where they hatched, staying in the same neighborhood as their parents. Territorial while nesting, they will attack other eagles within their area. The nesting cycle lasts about 20 weeks.

Bald eagles are sexually mature around four or five years old and dedicate themselves to finding a mate to raise offspring with. Mating season varies by region. Eagles do not copulate in the air like some believe because pairs have been seen whirling through the air with talons locked in a form of courtship or ritualized battle. Breeding may not occur annually for some eagles by voluntary choice. They may instinctively realize bad timing because of weather, nesting site availability, or food.

In the springtime, five to ten days after copulation, the female lays 1 to 3 speckled off-white or buff colored goose-sized eggs a few days apart. During incubation, male bald eagles bring green sprigs of conifer branches to the nest, possibly for deodorizing or shade. Both parents share the duties: hunting, egg incubation, nest watch, eaglet feeding, and eaglet brooding; however, the female does most of the nesting. One parent is always on the nest to keep eggs warm and safe from squirrels, ravens, and gulls. The male will often eat the head of fish and bring the remains to the nest. He shares brooding duties so that the female can stretch, defecate, bathe, preen, and hunt on her own. Eagles need privacy and quiet to breed. If they are disturbed, they may abandon their nest. People should use binoculars and spotting scopes for viewing at a distance.

Eaglets hatch after an incubation period of about 35-38 days in the order they were laid, by using their egg tooth, a pointed bump on the top of the beak, to break the shell. Hatching can take half a day to two days. Newly hatched chicks measure 4 to 5, with soft, grayish-white bodies, wobbly legs, and partially closed eyes. When two chicks survive, the older one may kill the smaller one and the parents will not stop them. Parents feed them by shredding pieces of meat with their beaks and while moving around in the nest they wall with their talons balled into fists to avoid harming their young. Eaglets diets consist of fish with supplements of water fowl or birds.

Eaglets grow a pound every four or five days and can hold their heads up for feeding around two weeks. At three weeks, they are one foot high and their feet and beaks are near adult size. At six weeks, they are about the size of their parents. They are full size at about 12 weeks and learn to fly. When their wing and tail feathers are fully developed, they can leave the nest. Before first flights, which may be to the nearest branch above the nest, eaglets do vigorous exercise and flapping. They will lift off by facing into prevailing winds and flapping or may be forced to fly by parents.

About 40% survive their first flight and only about half survive their first year for various reasons including starvation and the inability to recognize poisoned food.

In the end the earth will decide how hot or cold it will be. If I had my druthers, I much prefer the bright sunshine and waves gently lapping at my feet to the violent and destructive glacier movements of an ice age.

Eliminate the bloated and ineffective Council-system.

Replace them with five BSA owned and managed regional service centers geographically dispersed throughout the US. Service centers handle all inquiries, applications, advancement records, rechartering, training, literature distribution, etc. (all on-line and performed at the speed of clicks). Scout stuff is all online and ships next day. Council camps are all placed in separate land trusts (prohibiting sale) that are operated and managed locally by a board that is held accountable by BSA national for performance. BSA should hire effective senior executives that can shake out the incredible inefficiencies imbedded throughout the system, dramatically improve services to volunteers, market the program, and secure significant funding arrangements. Dropping the multi-million dollar budgets of 300 councils and replacing them with service-oriented and technology-advanced professionals will help ensure that our contributions and fundraising efforts are not wasted by a highly ineffective business model.

BSA should allow gays and atheists to be members.

BSA should call the full uniform, Class A.

Merit badge classes should be banned and eliminated from summer camps.

Troop size should be limited to 75. Troops who successfully recruit can spin off new units. That is how membership numbers will grow.

I have...4 years ago.

A few tips...

If you are going in the summer - it will get very warm and stuffy below deck in the sleeping quarters. Whatever A/C they turn on when people start arriving, does not kick-in until you are just about to leave. Dress accordingly. The hanging cots make constant noice as people toss and turn. If you have any light sleepers, I would recommend sleeping with earplugs, if you want to get sleep. Check-in seemed to be very slow and once you were assigned an area, it was pretty much a free-for-all with other groups. Be prepared to stake out your area quickly, if there is a crowd. I seem to remember the food being pretty bad, and the programming to be virtually nonexistent. The ships in the cove are all available for boarding and will no doubt be of great interest to the boys. They will have a great time.

I know I give my kids way too much...

Son (age 16) drives a 2007 Honda Civic Coupe.

Daughter (just turned 18) drives a 2007 Toyota Solara Convertible.

They were gifts from their parents to them. Insurance is mine. Gas is theirs.

Daughter just got a full ride academic scholarship to a prestigious private school in area. I accept her gift to me of $120,000+ with a smile.