sctmom

My son is joining a troop that is expecting Webelos from 3 different packs. He has already been attending troop meetings (most of the boys haven't), this is by his own request. The new scouts have been assigned 2 troop guides. The other night there was another soon-to-be Boy Scout there. The troop guides sat them down and talked to them. One of the boys then talked to me, answered questions, asked me questions about what my son liked to do at Scouts (making notes the whole time). The guides are going to work with the boys on their Scout skills for rank advancement during the next few months. I like the idea of the boys teaching this, I think it will help keep the younger boys interested.

None (in our pack, that I'm aware of)

Dedicated Dad writes: "I disagree, the oath and law are our policy. " Once again we are back to the differing definitions of the words in the oath and law. A difference we will never resolve. For as many dictionaries that show homosexuality is preverse, I can show you a dictionary that doesn't show that definition. I've looked in the numerous dictionaries here in my home, along with some online, a current World Book encyclopedia and the Harper Collins Bible Dictionary (mainly this refers to the actual scriptures that reference sex with someone of the same gender, not really a definition of homosexuality or preverse). I can use them to prove either side of the argument. So back to TJ's VERY FIRST comment in this thread: "OK, the other thread has finally gotten to the inevitable conclusion I knew it would, which is ultimately no conclusion. Debate over Scoutings policy to ban anyone who does not profess homosexuality to be immoral is a quagmire. Honest Scout leaders strongly disagree on morality, and it is their right to do so. "

The swimming portion of First Class included the survival skill requirement of jumping into water over your head and then using your pants as a flotation device. This has been removed from First Class and put into the Swimming MB. It is documented in the 2002 Requirements book. Also, you can look on the U.S. Scouting Service page for the specific wording.

OGE, thanks for your view. Did I mention I also carried my compass on that school field trip? Then when someone said "meet at the north end of the basketball court", I knew where to go! LOL I am enjoying learning about compass reading. A thought just came to mind that maybe I can have him set up a compass course in the yard for ME! We will both learn and he won't think I'm pushing.

I've been a Webelos leader for about 18 months now. Recently I went on an overnight trip with my son's class. The kids were told they could not go in the cabins without an adult. Yet one adult and one child together was OK! I found myself about to scream for help when I was left alone with kids --- my mind automatically said "TWO DEEP LEADERSHIP" and "NO ONE TO ONE CONTACT! I caught on to that part of training pretty good, huh? LOL I was surprised the kids didn't have to have buddies when we got off the buses at rest stops. I know the teachers were doing headcounts, but 50 kids on a bus and you are missing 1 -- how do you know which one?

Have you looked at the Programs Helps? Have you looked at Baloo's Bugle on www.cubmaster.org?

He doesn't have a friend that is joining the troop. I don't homeschool but still feel that the merit badges can fit in with his school work, including boosting his self confidence in certain school subjects and giving him a broader experience than he may get in the traditional school setting. One reason I have him in scouting is to keep him from just sitting around playing video games all the time. I have used Cub Scout requirements as ways to "enhance" our family time and supplement his public education (sort of like part time home schooling, maybe?). Often I have learned right along with him, hopefully showing him that learning should never end and is fun in and of itself. I am buying him a copy of the 2002 Requirements book. After he crosses over, we can sit down together and find one he would like to start on. I see a few I might point out to him that I know match his interest -- railroading, cooking, photography, pets. Then I thought I would suggest he ask the other new scouts if they are interested and ask the troop guide how to proceed. After reading the requirements for Home Repairs, I'm thinking I'll volunteer my house for the whole troop to work on that one.

With the change in the swimming requirements for First Class, will the handbook be updated soon? I need to get my son his handbook in the next couple of weeks. How is it handled when changes like this are made but the boy has the "older" book?

As my son is about to cross over to Boy Scouts, we have been attending troop meetings and looking ahead at the program. The troop he is joining seems to overall focus on the Eagle Required Merit Badges from the moment a boy joins. The boys have planned what merit badges they work on as a group at troop meetings and campouts for the rest of the year. Many of these are the "fun" things like orienteering and golf. They troop tries to get the boys to get First Class in First year, and has picked out a summer camp with a good first year program to help in that area. How do I, as a parent, help my son along without pushing too hard or having a "paper eagle"? I'm not concerned about how many badges he earns or how fast he achieves his ranks, but I want him to do some things on his own. Looking over the merit badge requirements, I see some that I think he would really enjoy. He is not yet 11 and still needs reminding to do things like homework and scout requirements. I'm willing and able to work with him on a lot of requirements and so he can then go show the leaders and get sign off. Any suggestions on how to approach without being overbearing? I want to make sure he stays on track (meaning he stays interested and moving forward at any speed).

As I learn more about the Boy Scouting world in my area, there seems to be no mention of official Merit Badge counselors. From what I've seen of 2 troops, the assistant scoutmasters become Merit Badge counselors as needed. How common is this?

A few other posts in this thread bring this up and no one has given an answer -- where is the policy? Is it an official policy? When I filled out the volunteer application last fall, I specifically looked for any wording about being gay or supporting gay rights, could not find any. Just filled out my son's application to go to Boy Scouts, still no wording. When my son joined as Tiger Cub in 1997, no one said "We do not allow gays in our group. If you are gay you cannot be a member. If you believe gays should not be banned, you should leave now." No one has said these things as we shopped for a troop. Nothing in the Cub Leader Handbook, The Webelos Leader Handbook, The Scout handbook, The Scoutmaster handbook. I do read about defending the rights of others, changing laws within the system, respecting others AND their beliefs even if you do not agree. No one says "morally straight means sex only within the confines of a heterosexual marriage and no tolerance for homosexuals." I have a hard time understanding the statements of "we don't want the BSA to change" when it has changed, and it will continue to change. There was no policy or statement or issue about gays in BSA until a few years ago. Look at the men who have stepped forward and said they had been BSA members for years and are gay.

Also, don't forget to continuing "selling" the parents on Scouting. I"m seeing a lot of Webelos dropping out right before we are going to Boy Scouts. These boys were always excited at all our Pack activities, really wanted to go camping, but the parents never even attempted to go camping, the parents give off lots of signals of "this is not important". The Scoutmaster said he has seen it over and over. With just a little encouargement from the parents, the boys will stick around. An 11 year old can't drive himself to the meeting and they do pick up on the parent's attitude very quickly -- whether good or bad. Make sure people are talking to the adults, encourage them to stay and watch, have someone explaining to them what is going on and what it teaches the boy, somebody pointing to a kid and saying "a year ago he could not get up front and speak to the group, look at him now running the meeting." Stress how Scouts is as important as school and sports. Maybe some of the scouts could make it a point to speak to the new parents-- just a simple "thanks for coming by, do you have any questions of me?" goes a long way.

Dedicated Dad, You would be listened to more and respected more if you would quit playing word games and quit the name calling. Others on this board who agree with the current BSA policy have stated so with confiction and stated why they feel that way without putting others down, ridiculing others, calling them liars, or playing picky word games. I highly respect them for standing by their beliefs and values. I would be proud to have them lead my son is scouting. I have to really wonder what values you are teaching the young men around you -- that we call people liars, refuse to answer specific questions, play with semantics when answering questions, refuse to stick to the subject at hand, lump all others into some big pot of deveint, evil people. To Rooster7, Eisley, Evmori, Cjm, and the others I do applaud you for your values and your discussions. It has made me think about many of my own values and what I want my son to learn. Your Scout behavior is exemplary.

Actually people do have a choice as many of you pointed out earlier in this thread -- home school or private school. Let me tell you about one other "choice" that is happening in our county --- just use somebody else's address to get your kid in another school. Our county is growing by leaps and bounds, they can't build the schools quick enough, now it is coming to light that residents of nearby counties (my house is within 10 minutes of 3 other counties) are sending their kids to our schools. No one checks the addresses, the city addresses often cover more than one county, or people just use the address of a friend or relative. Also, some people say that sending their child to a different school in the same district is more "convenient" based on their work location. Example is a teacher can have their child attend the school he/she teaches at even if it is not their "home" school. Or I can go say that for whatever reason my son can't ride the bus to school, and but I can drop him off at School XYZ on my way to work so I want him to attend School XYZ. Some of this I do agree with, but not the "let's just lie and send our kid to the next county because their schools have gone completely down the drain." Also, there are some "charter" schools in some areas where the parents have more control over what is taught and how the school is run. I think they require the parents to sign a "contract" saying they WILL be involved to some extent and they understand the policies and procedures.

A few other "fun" things might be roller skating or ice skating. I think the wall climbing will be fun for the boys.

My son also is under an IEP (Individual Education Program) -- in other words in "special ed" to some extent. I have AT LEAST one meeting a year. I'm about to have my second one of this school year next week. A few years ago when my son was having multiple behavioral problems I was on a first name basis with the Assistant Principal. My son spends most of his day in mainstream classes. He is now at 1 hour per day in Special Ed (poor kid just can't spell). The last 2 and 1/2 years things have been much better for him, but still some problems. This year we have found that email is a wonderful way to communicate. The teacher and I don't have to play phone tag, my son doesn't know that notes are going back and forth, and we keep in touch. I've had the school staff ask what they can do for ME, including recommendations of family support groups, family counselors and books to read. True, there does need to be a way to report, correct or dismiss ineffective teachers. My son's first grade teacher could not deal with students who were not "average". I really felt sorry for the exceptionally gifted students in her class as well as those like my son with behavioral problems. She told me my son was "not average" -- well Thank Goodness! Most people say he is ABOVE average intelligence. The reading book she was taking 6 weeks to cover, he read in ONE night (out loud, so we know he really read it). I've heard from other parents similiar problems with this teacher. All his other teachers have been wonderful. They are strict on him but caring. He needs strict, he needs to know very quickly where the line in the sand is. Again, I'm blessed with an overall good school and I've only dealt with the elementary school. Up until a couple of years ago much of the credit was due to the principal -- this guy was at EVERY event. Things are going down hill with the new principal -- nice person but just not as involved. I also know we had some strange ones in our private school --- including a teacher that threw chairs when mad, a coach who cussed and spit tobacco during P.E. classes, and a female who flirted with the teenage boys.

Do you have a campout planned for March? The troop we are joining has a campout in Mid-March that the new scouts will go on and work on their Tenderfoot requirements. Just so happens that the council merit badge day is at the end of March also. The scoutmaster is recommending the new scouts attend the First Aid class that day. If you can't camp, can you set up a all day outdoor event for a Saturday? Chance to work on Tenderfoot and Second Class requirements --and do some of the fun outdoor stuff.

Also, go ahead and get in touch with some Boy Scout troops. They can help your Webelos with camping this spring and in the fall. You might even be able to get a Den Chief from a troop to help with your meetings.

One approach that might raise the quality of education would be to raise the salaries and be pickier about who teaches. I considered leaving my corporate job to go into teaching. Our state has a teacher shortage and is offering a program where you can get a provisional teacher's certificate in a short time and then be on "probation" for a couple of years. Since I'm in a high tech field, I would be a good candidate. Do I want to take a 60% pay cut? Yikes, not really! And have to put up with the school buearacracy? Nope! Many good people try to teach and then get tired of fighting the paperwork monster and the low pay (at least in our state it is very low). Few men teach because it's hard to support a family off that salary. I'm sure many of you scouters have experienced the reality of the parents are often more of a problem than the kids. Imagine how many of those parents the teachers have to put up with! A common thing in some rich neighborhoods is "if you punish my child or don't pass my child, then I'll SUE you!". Geez, do you want to put up with that while driving a beat up old car, then seeing the same kid driving his new SUV that mommy and daddy bought him! Or the parents who refuse to talk to you about their child's problems? The kids who come to school with no breakfast and no one at home who cares? I've worked closely with my son's teachers and school administration because of his problems. They were so helpful once they realized I wasn't blaming them for his problems and I was open to suggestions. We quickly became a team. I'm lucky to have a school where they really care about the individual child. I also know the parents who do blame the school for everything and take no personal responsibility. My nephew was going to a public school, he was about 14 when his father began dying of brain cancer. The boy was at times helping his father bath and get dressed. My nephew always tested above average on standard tests but got bored quickly in school. His mom would have to go to work early in the morning and he would often skip school. When the school caught him the punishment was to suspend him! They knew that his father was dying and his mother doing the best she could. But they just let him slide away. He dropped out of high school. They really failed serving him. He is now 22, has a job as an electrician and is thinking of getting his GED. So everywhere you look there is good and bad. I think we all have to be very aware of what is going on so we can make informed choices. I really do admire those of you who are dedicated to home school. That is a much bigger job than many people realize. I'm glad to see more resources and organizations to support home schoolers, and to see more home schoolers being successful. In public school the focus seems to be on the grade -- not what the kid learned, this hurts all the kids.

I became a Webelos Den Leader in October of the first year of Webelos for my son. I had all my son, his best friend (a challenge scout) and 3 brand new to Cub Scouting. Also, very little help from other parents. Main thing is keep them busy! For Engineering badge let me suggest the following. Give each boy 3 pieces of insulated wire with the ends already stripped, 1 flashlight bulb, 1 battery, 2 metal paper clips, and a piece of cardboard. Make sure the batteries are the right size for the bulb. The CAN NOT electrocute themselves with this. Have one or two adults in charge of the electric tape. If you give the tape to the boys, they will do nothing but play with tape. Have them work alone or in teams to build a circuit, securing it to the cardboard. For incentive, tell them once ALL the lights are working, you will turn off the lights briefly to see how bright these little bulbs are. I told my boys they were not allowed to ask any adult for help (I had parents who would not really help but actually do for the boys). They first had to work together. Those who finish first have to help the others. You will probably have a few like I did that said "oh, I know how to do THIS, I did it in schoo." In a few minutes there was not much talking and a lot of puzzled faces as they tried to figure it out. Make a sample in advance so you know how it works and to show them what you are doing. Warnings--- They will use as much tape as possible, NEVER let them touch the role of tape. They will want MORE batteries to string to together if you have extras. At least ONE will insist he doesn't have enough wire. They WILL have fun! The parents who were not there said the boys came running in the house saying "look, look" and played with it for a week or so. Right now, breath deep, take it one week at a time. Keep them busy. Look at what badges have been earned. I tried to make sure we did one badge from each of the 5 groups. Do the ones that are FUN. Worry about Readyman and Citizen for next fall -- those are tough for 4th graders. Focus on scientist, engineer, the outdoors type, art, physical fitness type, communication, craftsman -- all the FUN ones.

brad says: I teach my children, to the best of my abilities, to always respect others, even those who are disagreeable or who practice things we completely oppose. I do too and have already found it necessary to do this even though my son is only in the 5th grade. I have yet to know of a school that teaches homosexuality or sexual "freedom" is okay. But my eyes and ears are open to all that is being taught to my child.

A few of my complaints about the public school is that it is still based on an agrian (spelling?) society. I don't know many kids that need to out in the fields during the summer. Also, the school day is still based on all kids going home to mom baking cookies. My biggest gripe is how you either get it or you don't. My son brings home a failing grade but no one has time to go back over what he didn't understand. Off to something else. My child struggles a lot partly because he is one of the youngest. If I could just hold him back about 6 months, he would have an easier time. But I can't do that, it's hold them back for a year or not at all. Brad, I'm not trying to argue but tell me what the "agenda" is. My neices and nephews all went to public schools, they aren't part of a "welfare state". They know they must have jobs to live. The one who dropped out of high school caught one real quick that if he wants to eat and have a car he better work. None of them expect handouts. Location may be a big part of it. I'm in the Bible Belt where local traditions and values weigh heavily. My son is still in Elementary school, so I can't really comment on the upper grades except from what other parents have told me. I talked to a dad last week that has 2 grown children and one child in elementary school. The family is very involved in their church and their children's lives. They have very high values and morals. He said he always told his kids that school is mainly what they make of it. His oldest son is about to graduate from a highly respected southern "technical" university. Parental involvement is so critical in education. I have carefully read the "values based education" taught at my child's school. Tell me what is wrong -- respect for yourself and others, persistence, patience, hard work, respect for authority, etc. The only thing they don't teach is a specific religion or specifics about sex. The "class" for 5th graders about their body discussed the physical changes they are going through, they are told to ask parents or clergy about other issues. Many of the parents from our school are Christians and have very high values, I've never heard of any problems. My example of a 17 year old who could not read is about lack of parents caring. I graduated from a private school with kids who could barely read. They could not read enough to enjoy a magazine about sports or cars. I went to the same school and could always read well about "grade level". Again, it was about parents involvment and expectations. I think home schoolers today have come a very long way from the fringe element it may have been many years ago. I am all for the public schools working with the home schoolers. It boils my blood too when I hear of school administrators who want to fight home schoolers. It has always been my understanding that EVERY child has a right to access public school facilities no matter what school they attend. The mission of the public schools is to educate each and every child, no matter what that takes. If you are home schooling your child but would like to borrow a book from the school library, you should be able to do that. I have also recently read about some people who are part time home schoolers, sending the kids to the school for subjects like science that may be hard to teach at home then at home teaching them reading, history, language, etc.

Like scoutmom, I am a single mother of an ADHD child. I cannot home school him full time. It is not an option. I also don't think I have the patience. It is all we can do to get through homework some nights, and he really doesn't have that much. As someone else said, we ALL homeschool to some extent...I have stopped housework to bring in a fallen bird's nest, pull out the bird book to identify what was in the front yard, done all kinds of experiments on my dining room table (some intentional --lol), I read to my son, we visit museums and historic sites, watch educational shows on TV, discuss current events, play math games, play word games, etc. I print out things from the internet for him to do -- just found some online word searches about a popular book. I actually bought a set of REAL encyclopedia (not just the computer type). We sit and browse through it. We try foods from different countries. We explore any where we can. I was raised this way. My parents (especially my father) is famous for asking "wonder how that works?" I went to a private school. Very small, not church based, the school lasted 11 years. It was opened in response to integration. Sports became such a focus that academics were secondary and that caused the closure of the school. I graduated with 17 other people. You would think that with so few students we got a great one-on-one education -- nope. Because the school had a hard time getting good teachers. Good teachers don't like being told to reschedule tests because it is the day after a ball game. One year our history teacher said "you will have a test EVERY Wednesday for the whole year, you KNOW this, if you are busy on Tuesday, study on Monday." Well, along comes basketball season and games on Tuesday nights. She was told to change the test days. Does that mean all private schools are that way? No. My nieces and nephews attended a couple of different church run schools -- bad experiences. One teacher put tape over the 8 year old's mouth and paraded her in front of other classrooms -- why? She was finishing her work quickly and then talking. Could have found something else for her to do. My nephew got in trouble at about age 9 with some other boys for catching tadpoles at recess and bringing them in the class room to the teacher! Couldn't she have had science class? My son's public school is good. I am very involved and pay close attention to what is being taught. I haven't seen this "agenda" others speak of. My big concern is the size of the schools. Some studies are now pointing out it is the size of the school, not the classes that are the problem. If there are 2,000 students in a high school and the child has a change in personality, who notices? Who even knows that child's name? How can the teachers take the time to care? Only the top academic and atheletic students get noticed. Bottom line for me is that each child is different, each parent is different, and each school is different. There is no ONE answer. I admire those who home school, it takes a lot of dedication. I've seen a few instances where the kids were 17 and could barely read because the parents didn't do much at the home school. I've also seen the articles on the ones who excel. The parents who care will have kids that succeed no matter what school. I just found out that some parents tell the school to NEVER call them for any reason. That amazed me. I've heard of parents of elementary school kids trying to check the kid out of school early who did not know the teacher's name! Amazing!

With a little practice you will get used to stuffing those monsters into the bags. My 10 year old weighs all of about 52 pounds and swore he stuffed his in the sack by himself last week. He has a mummy bag and loves it. When he first got it, he slept in it on top of the bed, the end of the bag rolled off the bed and carried him down with it. Then on a campout same thing happened when he was on a cot, he fell out of the side of the platform tent, ended up sitting up outside in the dark and cold. He was okay but it startled both of us! LOL Our sleeping bags came with instructions about how to store them and how to put them in the compression sack. I actually bought a new compression sack for my son's, the one it came with was not the nice type you described, it was more of a drawstring bag. The 4-strap compression is again something you need to practice to get the hang of or you end up with all those straps twisted.