sctmom

This thread is just as approriate as the thread on the Ten Commandments.

I posted the links due to other threads where people seem convinced the ONLY thing the ACLU does is try to gain extreme privilges for gays and atheists. By the way, I am not in a union, have never worked in a type of job that has a union. I work in a "right to work" state --- that means if the boss walks and it just doesn't like the way you look that day, you can be fired with no reason. Most reputable companies have rules and firing people, but it still leaves things open for abuse. Often those abused are the ones in low paying jobs, low income, who have very demanding jobs. One of the cases on the ACLU web page is about a women who called in after her shift had started to say she would not be in because her brother had died. She lost her job because of this.

A few articles some of you might be interested in: http://www.aclu.org/issues/worker/legkit6.html http://www.aclu.org/news/2002/n010802a.html http://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy/AAMVA_Speech.html http://www.aclu.org/news/2002/n021302a.html http://www.aclu.org/news/2001/n110801e.html http://www.aclu.org/news/2000/n111500a.html

Slont, You don't believe people of different color or race should have equal rights? That women should have equal rights? That people (of any gender, race or religion) should not be harrassed in the workplace? That free speech is a good thing?

Bob, I think we do all agree. The Webelos program seems to be designed for a "perfect" world. I became a leader in October of the boys 4th grade year of 5 boys. I tried having more meetings, special activities on weekends, etc., only to have 3 boys not show and not tell me in advance. No activity during the summer (most of the boys at relatives out of town). I sent home paper after paper, newsletters, did phone calls, etc. about items to work on at home and nothing happened. I then picked up 4 new Webelos in September of the 5th grade year. Very sparse attendance still. I know I'm not alone with this problem. I've talked to many other leaders with the same problems. If I had to do it all over again, I would do some things different. Would it have made a difference with this group? I doubt it, I can't counteract negative attitude the boys get at home. I can't go to their houses each week and get them to do the "homework". I can't rearrange their families' schedules for meetings. I still feel that BSA does not do a good job of addressing the issue of the boys who aren't ready to cross over in the Feb to May time frame of 5th year, regardless of why they aren't ready. As a Webelos leader, I've offered to continue having meetings for my den and the other second year den in our pack. No parents are interested.

Some boys this age are starting to act like teenagers. They may think they are being "cool" or "tough" by rebelling against Boy Scouts and you the leader. Like Bob W. says, they may be nervous. For the kids in our pack, they are also ending about to go to Middle School next year and are getting nervous about that as well. I agree that a talk with the boys and the parents would be in order. As I've said in another thread, over the last couple of years I've seen a lot of parents who have decided that the boys don't need to even try Boy Scouts. Cub Scouts was just another item on the kid resume. Good Luck.

I keep looking but I just don't see an answer. Please type slower for dumb little old me < grin > HOW does it weaken traditional marriages?

Based on the people involved, some parents may be "tougher" on their own kids than other kids. My son accused me of such as a Webelos Den Leader. Yep, guilty as charged. Based on other comments Brad has made on this board, I bet he's one of the ones that holds his sons to very high standards, regardless of who is teaching the merit badge. Too bad others see this as a chance to let their kids take the easy route. Those are the boys who really lose out, not the ones made to meet the requirements.

Two people love each other, commit to care for each other emotionally and financially. How does that affect any other marriage? How does it weaken traditional marriages? Are traditional marriages so fragile and weak they are weakened by 2 people of the same gender caring for each other?

Yes, each unit is different. Our pack has all den meetings on the same night each week, 2 weeks out of the month, 1 week is the pack meeting and 1 week off. That means 2 den meetings per month on a good month. If there are holidays, forget that. It's hard to change a pack that is set in it's ways. I also experienced parents throwing back they were told meetings were only 3 nights a month, their boys had school skate night on Monday nights. Again, a key point is the parents have a responsibility. I have held lots of meetings where 1 or 2 boys out of 8 showed up. I have rearranged my schedule to have meetings to accomodate the "other" school's schedule. I had 3 boys that came as a group -- so all or none. I had one parent whine that a meeting was planned on HER birthday. Maybe I'm strange (aren't most Cub Leader's???) but I enjoyed spending my birthday with the boys. Bottom line is all the adults should work together to help the boys get their AOL and / or continue in Cub Scouting until crossover to Boy Scouting. Parental attitude is SO KEY! The boys may be really excited about the program but can't drive themselves to meeting.

" The ACLUicans seek to destroy such concepts as marriage, profanity laws, age of consent laws and many other civil laws in the name of liberty." Objection. Please state a case of ACLU trying to destroy the concept of marriage. If your case is allowing same-gender marriages, please explain how that is a threat to a traditional marriage. Please also state a case of age of consent laws being done away with by the ACLU.

I think packs and troops need to work together to solve this problem. Out of 8 boys in my den, I had 4 that have summer birthdays. Two of those joined Cub Scouting in September of the 5th grade. Getting their AOL was not a priority and is a hard push for any kid. They just wanted to have some fun. What does BSA think is supposed to happen with these kids? They really can't join a troop until late May / early June (depending on your school system). Sure they can attend troop meetings, but to follow the book they should not have things signed off. Also, why should they be treated the same as the kid who earned his AOL? Shouldn't that AOL give you a little "extra" clout? Most den leaders aren't going to be willing to stick around for 2 or 3 boys waiting for the school year to end. Should they go be in the 1st year den? If you are following the recommended program they would be repeating things they did a year earlier. This is soooo confusing to me.

Oh, the reason I recommend is a pro chef is so the boys don't equate food service with only the lunch room ladies (no offense intended to anyone). But I think this is one of those areas where the boys really need to see this as a viable career option for men. Male chefs that I have talked with absolutely love their jobs and could show the boys that cooking is cool (like Emeril), is more than lunchroom cooking or slinging hashbrowns at the local greasy spoon. Yarrow, I would think you would need to choose if you want to cover the backpacking cooking requirements and / or the base camp cooking. Having never taught merit badges at that level, I'm not sure if you can cover both in one week.

The boys will camp the week they crossover. The next campout is going to be a trade off with baseball. The June campout is a go. July is summer camp. August is the only one that does not interest him (water sports). One reason I like this troop is they camp practically every month, therefore having variety and lots of chances to go. At this point we are planning on him attending summer camp. The camp has a good first year program designed to meet *some* of the requirements for tenderfoot, second class, and first class. Especially things like the swimming requirements which are hard to do in the troop with no easy access to a pool. Also, the camp is 2 hours from home with a family visit on Friday night to see what the scouts have done. I refuse to go to summer camp just on the principle of having him go with "the guys" this year. He will do fine and never miss me. The one big issue we have to deal with is a very serious and personal issue. He has some "bathroom" problems, shall we say, that should have solved many years ago. These are not physical problems that we know of and not only at night time. I'm about to make another big push to get him over this problem, including another doctor visit to rule out physical problems and some serious behavior modification. Some of the other kids are already aware of this. They don't tease him but they don't tolerate being near him either.

Please see my thread about the benefits of scouting. I can see where it would be good to work on the merit badges in conjunction with homeschooling, the same way I have had my son work on Cub Scout requirements along with assignments from school. Yet, as FScouter points out if the parents are the merit badge counselors, the boys miss out on some of the other benefits....I know these are the really important lessons that MY son needs to learn.

Bob, have you seen the new requirements for the cooking badge? Two of the requirements (5 & 6) are about trail cooking. The rest are camp cooking and home cooking. So there are lots of different things to cover now compared to before 2002. This badge seems much more time consuming than before, yet more beneficial in my opinion. Looking at the requirement, another thought comes to mind. Have handy some flyers from the grocery stores about how much things costs. Some of the requirements are about calculating the costs of the meals. For those doing this with your troop, check out any nearby cooking / chef schools. From what I hear they are always more than willing to help. Also, I would try chefs from catering businesses and high quality restaraunts.

Andrews writes: "They nod to parental involvement, but if you stand against their programs you will see how quickly you are not really in charge." Some (not all) private schools also only nod to parental involvment, but money talks. Take a stand and not provide the big bucks over and beyond tuition and see how quickly you are in charge. Donate money for new football equipment and you can have your way! Also, sports stars have more pull at some schools (public and private). been there, done that, got the t-shirt --- as a student

Looking over the schedule for the next 6 months, I think we have a good balance going on for scouting. There is a weekend campout each month except the month of summer camp. My son may not go on all of these due to variuos reasons, but will attend a few over the next 6 months. He is also playing baseball this spring. The troop is very flexible about the boys having other activities such as sports. The boys will attend the local Merit Badge day soon, and hopefully work on First Aid. I'm stressing to my son and the other boys I know that they may not completely earn a merit badge that day but it's should be fun and gives them a taste of Boy Scouting badges. For my own skills, I am signing up for a weekend program at a state park that is outdoor skills just for women. Sounds like scout camp without the kids (or men)! When some of us attended a Webelos weekend last spring, the adults learned as much and had as much fun as the boys. I try to show my son that I am also always learning even though I'm "grown up". Dedicated Dad, thanks for the link. I know that the declination where I live is small, but even a few degrees can make a difference when out in the "wild".

I had a meeting with school staff this morning about my son (5th grader). He has some behavioral / emotional problems. It is becoming more and more obvious that he does not have many friends and does not communicate well with his peers. He is becoming more withdrawn and is socially behind others his age. The specialist was recommending things to get him more involved with his peers. When I told them he was going to Boy Scouts and gave them a quick run down of what a "boy led" troop, they all said "that's Great! That's just what he needs. A chance to be around slightly older boys, that he MUST work with the other boys, and a chance to some times be the leader." Yep, that's why I have him there! I could take him camping. I could get him the books and teach him the "hard" skills (like cooking, camping, knot tying). It's all the OTHER stuff that is so important. The GOOD peer pressure of a patrol / troop, learning to do what is best for the team, working with different people, setting goals, achieving, trying new things in a safe environment. The school people all perked up when I explained the chain of command of a good troop is through the BOYS, not straight to the adults. They feel this will benefit my son tremendously, he will not be able to just "avoid" the other kids like he does at school. He will have to find a way to get along with them, which will include changing some of his behaviors and habits. And they pointed out that in a year or so, he will not want to talk to adults and will need peers to turn to. What does my son think he is going to scouting to do? To go camping, light fires, cook outside, whittle with his knife, and work on fun merit badges about chemistry, rockets, compass reading, cooking, golf, shooting, archery, etc. As I once heard it called -- "a great conspiracy. The boys think they are there to have fun, but WE know they are learning."

The ACLU is not all bad. Most of what you hear about are the extreme cases they are involved in. There are many, many cases they are involved with that most of us never hear on the news. When you have a little time you may want to check out their website. You might just find something you agree with.

As a Webelos Den Leader I am also dealing with this. A lot of the parents seem to just see this as the end of scouting for their sons. As much as leaders focus on getting the boys to earn their Arrow of Light, there is only so much they can do. There are some things that parents have to help with (making sure the boy goes camping or visits a troop). It concerns me greatly that a lot of boys are losing out at this time, especially those boys who just joined Cub Scouts in the 5th grade -- our pack had about 6 new 5th grade scouts this year. Some of them are not 11 years old, so they can't crossover until the summer.

MacScouter.org has a bunch of dutch oven recipes and links. I have Lodge cast iron dutch oven I bought at the well known mega store (much less expensive than the Scout store). I also recently bought an aluminum dutch oven from campmor.com It's also worthwhile to have a dutch oven bag so you don't have the thing rolling around and dirtying up the car or truck. Anything you can cook in your regular oven can be cooked in a dutch oven. A tip to make clean up easier -- line with foil or use disposable foil pans inside of the oven when baking. I also cook in mine in the backyard (the neighbors already know I'm crazy....lol). I prefer to try out recipes at home so I'm not so embarrassed on campouts. About the food pyramids, when I went over this with Webelos, they all moaned because they think they've seen it way too many times. A fun tip I heard is take bags of groceries to the meeting. Each group of boys gets a bag of groceries and must sort them by the food pyramid. Have each bag contain the same items and have a little competition. Throw in some interesting things that fall into multiple catergories and non-food items (like toilet tissue). Also, be prepared that the boys will want to eat some of what they see (especially if it is candy.) There are TONS of recipes on the web -- camping, one pot, home, etc. Focus on the things most boys like to eat --- tacos, chili, pizza, desserts, cinnamon rolls. I like the way the new cooking merit badge includes the food safety and the cooking at home.

Dedicated Dad, could you point me to more information about the U.S. laws being based on the Ten Commandments? Are there specific books or authors that you know of that address this subject? I am very interested in reading more about this. I recently read the book "John Adams" by David McCullough. It mainly addressed the documents that Adams was key in writing and signing. Very interesting book by the way. Reminded me of how little I learned of history in school.

Which has precedence in the U.S. -- the U.S. law and code or the U.N. declarations? Maybe some of you legal gurus can answer that for me.

"What religion is it, the religion of the Ten Commandants? " It is the religions of Judiasm and Christianity, as others do not subscribe to the Old Testament as "law". IMHO, one must also look at the overall picture -- is there a religion wanting to post a similiar type of important creed, that is being denied the right to put it on a monument. For example, if a Native American tribe in the area may want a monument with it's creed inscribed on it. Can they do that at the same location? I don't know the law, just my opinion.