ScoutParent

Rooster,

We're thinking of all of you in that area and praying for your continued safety.

Sort of shows the depth of commitment these people feel to their cause.

I attended Cub Basic and OWL Weekend. It was difficult however because my husband's schedule did not afford him weekends off and I had to find a quality babysitter in order to attend both.

OGE's response on an earlier thread concerning another Scouting issue:

"I think an excellent solution would be for all the people who think Boy Scouts should radically change its founding principles is form a group of their own."

I submit that this logic applies here.

I don't think anyone has said a child of a gay man or lesbian woman can not be a Boy Scout.

Sorry, I should have mentioned it is sponsored by the VFW. http://www.vfw.org/yourtown/you_VoiceOf.htm

Voice of Democracy Speech is great opportunity for young people to make their political ideas known and compete for big scholarships on a national level. This year's topic is Freedom's Obligation.

Genesis Chapter 1

"1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[1] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3 Then God said, Let there be light; and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 Then God said, Let there be a firmament[2] in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 Then God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth; and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 Then God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth; and it was so.

16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.

17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,

18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 Then God said, Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.

21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.

23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 Then God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind; and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

29 And God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.

30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food; and it was so.

31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. "

Genesis Chapter 1

"1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[1] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3 Then God said, Let there be light; and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 Then God said, Let there be a firmament[2] in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 Then God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth; and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 Then God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;

15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth; and it was so.

16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.

17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,

18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 Then God said, Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.

21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.

23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 Then God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind; and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.

27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

29 And God said, See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.

30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food; and it was so.

31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. "

FirstPusk writes:

"Not interested."

I didn't expect you to accept the challenge. Then there would be data to substantiate both of our actual understandings of the subjects of evolution and intelligent design; not to mention our abilities to understand.

"I asked for something from you first. Provide me with a viable scientific theory that is an alternative to evolution. We talked about this first eleven days ago."

FirstPusk, I told you intelligent design. Your assessment that it is not viable doesn't really interest me. Look up Yale+intelligent design or Natural History+Intelligent design and see if it interests professional scientists.

"Still no direct answer only slurs and mean-spirited misrepresentation."

FirstPusk:

These statements from you are patently false and pretty much standard towards anyone who disagrees with you on this subject. Substantiate this claim with any slur that I have made against you or cease and desist with this nonsense.

NJ,

Your profession probably does help to view the world in those terms. But as much as I would like to be able to fulfill your wishes for scandal here, can't really help you out. My husband and I married in 1984 (both for the first time), had our son 1 week short of 2 years later and have been married ever since. We don't drink, take drugs or have extra-marital relationships. In fact, we still get teased about liking to spend time together (go figure). Our son is a Christian, honor student, well liked by his peers and well loved by his family.

FirstPusk:

Here's my challenge to you:

We'll meet at a neutral location with a Biologist and a Theologian, and Psychologist. We'll take a test on evolution, Intelligent Design and then of course the WAIS III. Then we'll talk about comprehension and understanding levels.

NJ:

Thanks for pointing that out--I am glad they realized the error of their ways and changed that. Now maybe they'll put the other deviants back in there too. One of the paedophile's main defenses is it is an "orientation" and not a choice. Oh as far as your ideas on consent, there are groups that are trying to get the age of consent laws changed. I understand you are a lawyer(I think everyone's heard that a few times by now) but the society we live in is expanding to include much of the world and new jersey is just a little tiny segment so I wouldn't base too much on that small of a representation.

The song I always liked is "This little light of mine...I'm going to let it shine"

OGE writes:

"So how could anybody that remotely calls themself a scientist use data from 1948?"

If you're referring to me (however obliquely), I never have portrayed myself as a scientist. I am a Christian, wife, mom and human being. But I did get a good laugh out of that question because scientists of great renown have been doing it for centuries. Surely you've seen scientists use or quote data and ideas learned from Aristotle, Hippocrates, Socrates, Linnaeus, Curie, Pateur, Salk, Darwin, Bell, Edison, and Einstein. I should have written that other post a little more clearly; the Kinsey report was cited by a political activist, Judith Levine, in defense of her ideas on paedophilia. The reason this report is so important in this area is because the ethics of most social scientists kept them from doing this type of research. In the research done for the original report, sexual experiments were conducted on children as young as 2 months old. Other data was taken from Nazi sexual experiments on children that was included in the report. It is a well known fact that the Kinsey Institute is a proponent of paedophilia and there are many organizations that are devoted to making it as socially acceptable as being a gay is now. One interesting concept they use is to whitewash the concept with the use of euphemisms (Animal Farm, 1984, and Anthem in reality) to gain acceptance. If you find these things unacceptable then direct your anger toward the components of our society that are causing them to become acceptable--the darwinists. Science does not nor has it ever existed within a vaccuum. Whatever developments science makes have an impact on the society involved.

OGE:

It is the diagnostic statistician's manual--the reference book used by the phsychiatric community to determine if a condition is a mental disorder or not.

How about a scientist that won the Nobel Peace Prize explaining his behavior as normal. It's the new legacy of the evolutionary theory. It's even being proposed now by scientists that children enjoy the sex(Kinsey report) and that age of consent should be removed entirely.

Ed,

You and I are on the same sheet of music. However evolutionists (who understand what they are supporting) don't believe it is a conscious choice it is preprogrammed in the genes, period. Consciousness itself is only a series of chemical and electrical impulses in that view. It is not my view but rather the theory of evolution that puts them all in a purely genetic, biological category. Look up some of the topics I mentioned, especially the book by Peter Singer to see if what I am telling you is true.

Here you go OGE:

"In the earlier DSM-III-R, pedophilia was diagnosed as a disorder if "The person has acted out on these urges, or is markedly distressed by them". (Page 285, paragraph B of Diagnostic criteria for 302.20 Pedophilia). In DSM-IV, Paragraph B of the same section (Page 528) is changed to read, "The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning." Simply acting out on the urges is no longer a basis for pedophilia being considered a disorder. If the individual is not distressed or impaired by what he is doing, then to the psychiatric community, it is healthy behavior."

You don't get any more mainstream in the psychiatric community than the DSM. It's the manual they use to determine all mental illnesses.

Intelligent design is how the universe and humans within it were created. This is an undeniable truth. It does not depend on your understanding or concensus. Nor does it depend on disproving your theory. You must disprove it just as you demand with your theory.

More topics of interest for the social impact of evolution and darwinism include: transhumanism, gene enhancement, and shiller institute, and singer. No one need take my word for the ugly ideas these people support; check them out.

OGE to an evolutionist they are all the same...a behavior programmed in your genes and thus not within your control.

For those interested in seeing how the theory of evolution and darwinism is being incorporated into the social values of our culture look up darwinism, eugenics, positive eugenics, evolutionary psychology. It is the reason that the holocaust happened and it is the reason that many people now accept such abhorrent behavior as homosexuality, pedophilia, alcoholism, etc. It is based on the theory of evolution as the founder(darwin's cousin) was quick to point out and simply the next logical step. People in these movements have been successful in making words like euthanasia, assisted suicide, abortion, genetic testing all perfectly acceptable to too many people. This is not simply a misuse or abuse of the "science" as has been suggested; it is a natural extension of it.

"Princeton biologist Lee Silver, in his book, Recreating Eden, suggests that enhancement through germ-line gene therapy, followed by assortative mating between the enhanced, could lead to superior gene pools (the Gen-Rich). If so, this would be the first ever success of eugenics at the population level."

Oops i bet he meant better adapted gene pools.

LittleBillie

You've proven the point.

"Sir Arthur Keith was one of Great Britains leading evolutionary anthropologists in the mid-1900s. In one of his popular books he conceded:

The German Fuhrer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practices of Germany conform to the theory of evolution (1947, p. 230)."

Not just my idea; commonly known and used to be taught in public schools. Of course if I were a transhumanist or eguenicist; I would want to dumb down the school system and not teach this too.

I'll leave aside the part about the aboriginals since I know little about it, but I do know something about the 6 million Jews (and millions of others) murdered in the Holocaust. ScoutParent, I find your statement to be absurd and highly offensive. My great-grandparents, uncles and aunts were not killed "in the name of preserving the myth of evolution." They were killed because the Nazis wanted them dead. Obviously the Nazis were involved in eugenics, genetic experimentation and wanted to create a "master race," but I do not see what those things have to do with "evolution" -- nor were the deaths of my relatives necessary to bring about these evil plans.

NJ, I am very sorry to hear that you lost relatives in the holocaust. I really don't know why you find my statement absurd or offensive. Of course it had a great deal to do with evolution and with creating a "master race". Evil begets evil is the point I am making, of course. It's not just my religious beliefs, it's the beliefs of millions of people worldwide. I would ask the same courtesy in keeping your religious beliefs out of the public school systems. And if you kept the individuals in your selective breeding experiment there long enough would they become a different entity entirely? I think not they would still just be taller humans. I never said I didn't agree that one can inherit certain traits but the fact is I believe God put the information in the first humans and it is simply recombined time and time again.

FirstPusk writes:

"Eugenics, the Nazis, the holocaust, forced sterilization are all examples of the misuse, no, abuse of science to support personal prejudices. You seem to imply that anyone who accepts evolution supports such ideas. You could not be more wrong."

Scientists, lawmakers, philosophers are all debating the ethical use of scientific developments and equating gene therapy and gene enhancement with eugenics. Artifically inducing human evolution is another hot topic.