ScoutParent

NJ:

"Others, in different ways, give some governmental preference to one religion or another. In almost all of them, people of "minority religions" are relegated to "second-class citizenship."

and today in the U.S. the minority religions would like to relegate the majority to "second-class citizenship".

The government frequently discriminates---giving a minority applicant preference over a non minority applicant is discrimination based on race. That is most certainly discrimination and its funded by our tax dollars--have you taken a stance against that or do you prefer to spend your time bashing youth organizations?

People in a free country have the right to have private clubs and should have the right to include in its membership those it wants to...period. I see nothing wrong with men having their own clubs or with people of similiar moral beliefs having a club. Atheists do not fit into the membership requirements of this group...so what...make a club for atheists and apply for government funding. Don't destroy this one make your own.

stick with the pierogies with sauteed onions, farmers cheese and mashed potatoes...now that's food

Rooster,

I hope you take a break and then miss the forum too much to stay away. Your faith and articulate style are positive components that the boys that read this site can benefit greatly from. Don't underestimate the impact you may be having on them. Come back when you get rested!

Welcome to the discussions, Bryan!

Well said, EagleDad!! The troops in our area that are losing membership are the troops that offer a poor program, don't let the boys lead, etc.

I recently read that the BSA has had the highest membership growth since WWII. I wouldn't classify that as a dying organization.

This is from the following website of Jewish people who think very differently from you, NJ. To them, your secular views are probably very offensive.

"through disobedience, man fell from his first state and became separated from God (Gen. 2:17; 3:22-24). Therefore, according to the Scriptures, all men are born with a sinful nature (Ps. 14:1-3; 49:7; 53:13; Isa. 64:6; Rom. 3:9-12, 23; 5:12)."

http://www.mjaa.org/StatementOfFaith.html

From www.scouting.org:

"The BSA reaffirmed its view that an avowed homosexual cannot serve as a role model for the traditional moral values espoused in the Scout Oath and Law and that these values cannot be subject to local option choices"

As far as I personally am concerned, T.J., your choices in your sexual life and the consequences thereof are between you and God. You do realize, however, that your choice is against the standards for leadership requirements that the BSA has set. Therefore, I ask you to do the honorable thing and resign your leadership position. There are many other organizations where you will be a welcome leader. Perhaps you can use your energies there.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

why hasn't any attention been paid to the agnostic and atheist beliefs of the UUA and the major role they played in the BSA's decision on the religious award.

http://www.uua.org/news/scouts/scouts_to_uua.html

Read this resolution by the UUA to see that this has been a contrived situation designed to force the BSA to change it's values and not vice versa.

http://www.uua.org/obgltc/botres.html

"ScoutParent did not mention that for the associated study of dizygotic (fraternal) twins, where one was known to be homosexual, approximately 22% of the brothers were also homosexual. Even the 22% frequency was significantly greater than the background rate of occurrence of homosexuality in the population. The 52% and 22% figures are generally accepted as evidence for a genetic role (though not the sole determinant)."

I also did not mention that the for most of the studies that have been completed, participants have come from the prisons, mental institutions, aids clinics, and homosexual communities. the idea that those figures are generally accepted as evidence for a genetic role is not actually the truth. Actually it is understood that without much higher concordance rates, the role of genetics is small.

"to infer that for EVERY genetic influence there is a corresponding environmental factor would be misguided. "

well there is a definite difference between heritable and inherited. The propensity towards homosexuality could possibly be heritable but is not inherited. conversely, height and eye color are inherited and follow very different principles.

"that aside, however - there are certainly genetically determined gays, just as there are gays by nurture, gays by choice, and gays by various combos of the foregoing."

I haven't read anywhere that there are studies proving genetically determined gays--could you tell me where you got this idea.

Rooster, that's the section of Romans that makes it clear where God stands on this issue--thank you for presenting it.

We watched the series and enjoyed it quite a bit. It was interesting to see the difference in each family's priorities in preparing for the winter and how it worked out. Was also interesting to see how the wealthy family changed because of the show.

Cloning is not necessary to study individuals of the same genetic makeup. Identical twin studies have been used for years to determine nature vs nurture. These studies have been unable to deliver a concordance rate above 52 % for identical twins when one is a homosexual. If it were a genetic trait only; then there would be high 90's or 100% concordance rate.

lol that might work for a tired, bored jury but it certainly doesn't hold water here. Talk about convoluted logic. First of all if it were proven to be a genetic trait, that does not mean that God approves of the behavior, just as drunkeness and glutttony are both sins although they have genetic links. The rest of your argument falls apart after that.

Even if a genetic link were shown it still is only a predisposition--not a mandate. Each individual determines their own behavior.

"Thus, my ponderings have me wonderings if atheistism/agnosticism is the domain of the aeon Sophia who's purpose is make the Supreme God truly unknowable by misleading with the Demiurge.. "

Atheisism and agnosticism is the domain of Satan whose purpose is to lead you to death by leading you away from God and Jesus.

Your point would have had more merit if you had left the quote out. To compare limiting membership in our organization to people who meet the membership requirements to the murder of millions of people is unconscionable. It really is not unrealistic to want to associate with people who share similiar values. Why do you strive to limit our freedoms so?

Christians take stands on ideas that are contrary to what God wants for his people. Does this mean we judge others; no it means we don't endorse it; there is a huge difference. Read Romans 1:24-40.

In my earlier post I was referring to the signs Phelps and his people were carrying not Robertson and Falwell's comments. RedFeather, first you talk about giving up your thought processes and then you wish us a politically correct period--talk about irony. What do you think being politically correct is besides acting in a mindless manner based on man's idea? There is a real idea they are trying to express which I don't disagree with at all; just the manner in which they chose to express it. TJ, Romans 1:24 is an excellent passage on this topic--it shows very clearly where God stands on these issues.

They are Americans expressing themselves in accordance with their First Ammendment rights. Do I agree with their message--NO not the way that they chose to state it. God is a loving and forgiving and that's why he sent Jesus Christ to die for all of our sins, even the homosexuals. I would rather Christians protesting would use signs that show God's love and his willingness to give us his son as our Savior rather than the raw hate these people seem to spurt. I do find it interesting though that the same people who support Merlyn's rights to atheism and hate speech ocused towards God find this hate speech focused towards man so offensive. The easiest way to find out if this is what Christians think is to read the Bible. If the scripture doesn't support it then it's not what God expects from us.

I have heard that some Eagles have been revoked and that it is a matter that is kept private between the Eagle Scout and National. I don't know if it is accurate or not.

"Where did you get the statistic of crime going up 80% in areas where porn stores open up?"

From independent studies done on the subject. It is understood by the legislators that porn shops, strip clubs, etc have a deleterious effect on the areas that house them. That is why these types of businesses can have special restrictions applied to them that other businesses in the area do not. For instance in Shippensburg, Pa, the law is that the porn shop must close by 10pm and is not allowed to conduct business on Sundays. Other examples include restricting them from operating within 1/2 mile of a school bus stop, house, church, business, etc.

The idea that porn does not alter one's opinion about sex or women is ludicrous. The whole idea of porn is to show sex acts in a loveless, physically gratifying way--PERIOD. It is about the explotation of human beings and in particular, women.

Isn't that what many of you are doing when you refuse to donate to United Way because you think Planned Parenthood is "pushing" abortions on people?

Not at all. It's called taking a proactive stance and donating money to causes you feel worthy of your support. Planned parenthood was started by Margaret Sanger, a well known eugenicist whose main goal was to eliminate the offspring of the poor, the uneducated and the minorities. It was a form of racism and is continuing to this day.

So, no, it's really not the same thing at all.