ScoutParent

Was definitely colorful imagery that gave me quite amusing mental pictures. Can't say we haven't thought some similiar thoughts.

When reading the responses to my posts some questions come to mind:

1) Why would a SM, COR, CO or committee want to keep a scout from using money he earned for his continued scouting needs? How does this benefit scouting, the scout or anyone except the troop? What lessons are we teaching our boys if we accept this arbitrary administration of funds they have earned?

2) How would making a small claims court claim reflect poorly on scouting, destroy the troop or hurt boys in scouting? Wouldn't it teach the boys that there is a legal system intact to handle disputes in a fair and logical manner when adults fail to on their own? It almost seems as though it would teach them an important lesson in citizenship in my opinion.

What we have always tried to impart to our son is to live a Christian Life, be involved in your school and community, and be kind and considerate. Scouting is an extension of those ideals not the only way it is imparted. For the scouting program to be effective we think it is important to demonstrate the points we are trying to teach our children by our actions. We don't feel it is a violation of scouting to hold leadership accountable for their actions. It certainly wouldn't be the organization it is today if people were not expected to follow certain codes of conduct.

In essence Bob, we are in agreement--1. they did not communicate the rules

2. what's best for the scout is to have access to the money in his account for summer camp, uniforms, etc.

As far as a national policy, I would like things spelled out more on the administration of funds just as they are on the fund raising itself. I don't think that policies are a bad thing--it seems they keep things running smoothly and fairly. It wouldn't hamper the troop from being it's own organization; just give a little more guidance to the acceptable ways of doing things so in that respect I do think it would have helped us.

The money was always construed as being the scouts for scouting use. So the perception that it is his money was created by the very people that are trying to keep it from him at this point. His transfer has not actually been processed yet and they have gone as far as to say that they would not reimburse him for items purchased at the scout store. Even by the rules that they finally sent yesterday he would be able to purchase uniforms, and parts there of so it is really a ridiculous situation.

We called the parish priest and he sounded more receptive to looking into it for us today. Will check back with him after memorial day and see what if any progress he has made.

We intend to give the parish priest one more chance to get his organization to do the right thing then we intend to call the diocese. I do think it would be great to get a national policy on this because of situations like this. While we should all be able to depend on the integrity of leadership we all know this is not a perfect world and it would alleviate all the questions if it were mandatory to transfer individual funds to any chartered scouting organization. We also have wondered if perhaps the funds are no longer available. How would we be able to know though, we can't even get a straight answer about the account balance. I see what you are saying about the Charter Organization owning the assets of the troop, Bob, but if that applies to the individual accounts as well, it should be made public from the minute a boy joins the troop. Parents and scout could sign and date a receipt and acknowledgment of rules and there would be no problem. If a change occurs parents and scouts would receive another paper explaining changes to sign and date.

I too would think a mature meeting with the committee would yield the appropriate results. The problem is they are not willing to participate in such. Just yesterday we received a letter addressed to our son that stated they would not be releasing his money and that it was unfortunate that his family misunderstood policies but it was his choice to leave. Does this sound like a mature way to handle the situation? While I think they are basically good people they are working under the assumption that they are infallible and that is dangerous for anyone to believe. Had we been informed from the start of their policies this would not have been such a startling revelation and we would not have attempted to transfer his funds. They need to acknowledge that and do the right thing.

We will certainly take any ideas under advisement. Any actions we take would be only to remedy this situation and not to harm the troop. Although human nature makes this seem a favorable option at times, we realize it really just hurts the boys and scouting and we don't want to do that. We will not stand by though and let this SM, COR or committee take advantage of our son or punish him for choosing to leave this particular scouting organization. The decision was a hard one for him to make as he takes each part of scouting seriously and was questioning whether this would conflict with loyalty. Because he tried his best to work with the leadership and make a stronger troop to no avail, we assured him that he had done his best and that was what was expected of him. Now to face this with these leaders has really opened his eyes a little more than i would have preferred at this point. Keep the ideas coming---the old adage two heads are better than one is usually true. Thanks

Bob,

Yes, we followed your suggestion and were told that a copy of the bylaws would be mailed to us immediately (they didn't have one and would have to obtain it). That was two weeks ago. We stopped at the scout store with our son (to make some purchases of items he needed) and while we there we asked to speak to the unit commissioner. A gentleman came out, listened to the problem and told us to address letter to the district committee(i think finance) which we did. They called back and said what i typed. We did try the charter organization representative who said that we wouldn't be able to transfer the funds or use them at the scout store either. When we asked the SM and COR what the account was for they responded that it was for scouting needs as long as he was a member of their troop.

The idea that you can catch more flies with honey is not a new notion to us and we have always maintained a friendly, professional, respectful relationship with the people in this troop. Until we approached the scoutmaster with the transfer papers, we had no idea there would be a problem transferring the account--it has always been stated that one fundraiser was "the troop fundraiser" and all the rest were for the scout's individual accounts to be used for their scouting needs--never a stipulation as long as they are in this troop. For a troop to have rules, regulations, bylaws whatever, they certainly need to make parents and scouts aware of their existence and should provide each scout with a copy--to this date we have never seen such a copy. We've also learned that several other scouts did transfer their accounts to a different troop several years ago. We're young enough not to have to worry about blood pressure too much yet and have persistent natures so we will continue trying to affect a transfer of his account. We can't help but feel somewhat saddened by their attitudes because our son has always respected these people but we're not so idealistic as to expect them to be perfect and we understand that they are reacting partially out of feelings of rejection from our son choosing to transfer. It was not a choice based on personalities, or personal likes or dislikes of people but rather a choice based on programming, advancement methods, etc. It's sad that they are using this money as a way of making him pay for choosing to tranfer but that's the only way it can be perceived at this point.

The district finance committee met and decided that the troop had the authority to not transfer the money in the scout account to the new troop. They told me my next course of action would be to address a letter to the council committee and/or discuss it with the pastor of the church that sponsors the troop. I called the parish priest and he said he is not involved in the scout troop whatsoever and that whatever decisions they make he supports 100%.

Items like US puzzles where states are the pieces, presidential placemats, history pocket trivia games are inexpensive and help teach a child social studies from a young age. Trips to museums, especially living history ones, are great for young children. We've taken our son to Colonial Williamsburg, Jamestown Settlement, Presidential houses, Smithsonian, plantations,natural bridge, niagara falls and he loves those types of trips still. Don't forget to include a section on independent thinking and have them read some of the books that are no longer included in school like Anthem, Animal Farm, 1984, etc.

Some fundraising ideas for your troop--1)staff a "safety break" at a rest stop on an interstate--provide home baked goods, fruit, coffee, tea, and milk, for donations only

2) pick fruit (grapes in this area)

3) do clean up after a festival (group sponsoring festival gives donation to troop)

4) sell glo sticks at 4th of july fireworks or carnival

Divide profit by man hours to determine hourly rate for each scout. Keep careful records of hours worked by each scout. Parents do not get credit unless they worked shift by themselves. Has worked well for us in the past.

Thanks to Bob White and all who answered my post. Hopefully with District working with us he will get his money transferred and can finish the final steps up the trail without further avoidable disturbances. He enjoys scouting so much and it just seems a shame to encounter these types of problems but I guess he can learn valuable life lessons from these as well.

I spoke to the council office yesterday. They asked me to draft a letter with the pertinent information in it for them to present at the district committee meeting. They will help my son get his money transferred to the new troop. It seems they are familiar with the SM from the troop our son is leaving.

There should be a balance of around $ 500.00.

Our son has chosen to transfer to a different troop within the same council. When we approached the scoutmaster of the troop he is leaving with a form to transfer his individual scout account we were told he would not be able to take one penny of his account to the new troop with him. The SM said transferring his account is against the troop bylaws. This is the first time in all the time our son was in the troop that bylaws were even mentioned to us. It was always our son (and our) understanding that the money he earned on fundraisers that was placed in his individual account was his to be used towards scouting as long as he remained in a scouting program--not as long as he remained in the troop.

Thanks for your prompt reply. I was hoping you would tell me that there was a national BSA policy regarding this.

Bob, perhaps you could answer this question for me---When a scout transfers what happens to the individual scout account money? Does the BSA have regulations regarding this?

It amazes me that in the United States of America where we are all supposed to have certain freedoms, we constantly have to explain why we choose to exercise ours and have an organization comprised of people who believe in God and believe that homosexual behavior is improper.

Weekender:

Maybe this SM is an unteachable one because we have approached him on this topic and we did have the book as well as material we printed from various sites to back our position. Last year after our son expressed his displeasure with going to the Star Scoutmaster Conference 3 times.

This time when we talked with committee members about this problem and a problem with the troop merit badge counselors, we were told that it is the SM's philosophy that the boys should be kept from advancing too quickly and getting Eagle too quickly because many times they lose interest after getting Eagle. Obviously these ideas are not conducive to a good scouting experience.

The troop my son is leaving uses the scout master conferences as "grilling sessions" for the ranks of star and life. Rather than relying on the BSA program that is in place, they feel it is necessary to spend 3-4 meetings "grilling" the boys with tests of every item in the handbook. Their theory is that this will impart the gravity of attaining star and life on the boy but instead it builds resentments and hostilities. How does your troop use this time?