scoutingagain

I can think of no greater loss than the loss of a son or daughter. This is just so sad. I'll say a prayer as well.

SA

The title of this thread is IOWA, so at this point I figure it's up for grabs. Presidential Politics and Football is as good a title as any now.

Since our President apparently has some affection for the Patriots, and he, being a religious person and the darling of Christian politicians, well.. I figure God must be rooting for the PATs. Which is ironic because it was the Massachusetts Supreme court that has opened up the possibility of Gay Marriage.

God does not normally interfere in sports. The few times I can recall where His hand was at work included the '69 Mets and '86 Mets, the Franco Harris Immaculate Reception and the Patriots First Super Bowl win.

As far as Presidential Politics goes, I think the Republicans are a bit nervous, though they won't show it publicly. I know of at least 5 other persons in addition to Packsaddle that share a similar outlook on this administration. Me... I like George W. Bush as an individual. I think he's a compasionate, caring guy that cares deeply about this country. The issue I have is more with the closet cabinet that seems to be actually running things. I didn't vote for Perleman or Wolfkowitz. It remains to be seen if the Dems can come up with a ticket that looks like it wouldn't be as bad as these guys though. Like Le Voyager said, is there a true leader out there?

SA

I confess one of my knots is upside down too. I gave them to She Who Must be Obeyed to sew onto my shirt without giving her explicit intructions beyond showing her where they go. So far no one has noticed. But I now live in constant fear whenever I put on that shirt. Always looking over my shoulder, never trusting anyone.

I know I need to fix it, and I will, I promise.

SA

Soryy OGE,

Excuuu-uuuuse ME!

To bad your not an Eagles Fan, because the Chicago Bears have never been the Buffalo Bills.

SA

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.

I thought the password was, "Swordfish".

SA

OGE, I sympathize with you and other Eagles fans. Take heart though.

To paraphrase a Boston sports writer. The Denver Broncos were the Buffalo Bills before the Bills became the Bills,(another team with just bad playoff/superbowl luck) and eventually went on to win the Superbowl behind Elway & Co. There is always next year.

Remember we've suffered the Red Sox for more than two generations now.

Glad to hear OT is home safe and sound. If it's any consolation, I don't know why it would be, my first choice for President has been knocked out of the pirmaries before the party conventions in the last 4 Presidential elections. Can't remember the last time I voted for President and could actually say I really supported the guy. Seemed like in the general election I was always voting for the alternative that I thought would do the least damage and I've been mistaken more than once.

We'll look forward to hearing from OT again when she gets a chance.

SA

I personally probably would not have a problem with it if I knew the Familiy, especially Grandparents or siblings. Uncles? Too many stories about "funny" Uncles out there.

As a policy I don't think it's a good idea. Just opens the door to issues that shouldn't have to be dealt with. I agree with EagleinKY. Have kids sleep with kids.

One possibility though (and I don't know how this would go over with those that know the rules much better that I do.) would be to use a large, family style tent that slept 6 or 8 and have kids sleep on one side and several adults on the other.

SA

"I think the president could probably get 2 tickets if he wanted, without going through one of the players. He probably wouldn't even have to pay. "

As a government employee I don't think the President is allowed to accept gifts or gratuities anyway. I'm sure he would pay for the tickets.

As a Patriots Fan I am heartened by what appears to be the President's support for the PATs. He didn't even win Massachusetts in the last election. Glad to see he doesn't hold a grudge. I wonder what Carolinians think of that?

SA

Have to agree with BW. To protect both parties, an adult that is not a parent or legal guardian should not sleep in a tent with youth member, regardless of any agreement made with a parent. It's a situtation that presents potentially very unpleasant issues and would seem to be relatively easy to avoid.

SA

I'm most impressed with the fact that the President and Mrs. Bush invited Tom Brady, the PATRIOTS Quarterback to the speech as their guest. Think they're angling for Superbowl Tickets?

SA

Speaking of old skill requirements, whatever happened to stalking/tracking?

Now that this thread has me digging through the cobwebs of my brain, wasn't there a second class requirement at one point to follow someone for a mile or two without being seen or identified?

SA

Next thing they will ban red meat... from Canada.

SA

I am getting very worried. Seems like FOG and Bob White are ageeing all too often these days.

An what's all this about the uninformed police anyway?

SA

Thanks for the replies gang.

The reason we are looking at a BSA High Adventure Base experience is that this Troop has never really done a High Adventure camp before. A planned program, yes will make the planning easier but will also give the scouts a chance to see what is possible. Then maybe they can work on planning their own trip.

I'll admit I'm somewhat new to the scouter game compared to many on the forum and appreciate your experience. I should clarify my role though. I'm not the Scoutmaster(who is trained), but am a member of the committee and advancement chair. While I am not fully trained, I am getting there. I also have been the one that has brought up the idea of a High Adventure trip and am the one adult leader that seems to be willing to put in the effort to help make it happen. There are several adults who are willing to go on a High Adventure trip and help out. The scouts are definately interested.

Based on your responses I am starting to get a better picture on how to involve the Boy Leadership. Since this is our first high adventure experience we will need to do some shakedown trips, and that seems like a good place to have some of the more experienced scouts get more involved in planning than they have in the past. We are just in the beginning stages of this so details can still be worked out. So any additional thoughts and ideas are welcome.

SA

I tend to agree with Acco's assessment but am less confident that Bush can lose. Any sitting President has a hugh advantage. However, I think even the more liberal side of the Democratic Party realizes that to have any chance of winning they have to put up a centrist candidate. Republican's can't be all that pleased that after a State of the Union speech polls indicate the Presidenat has a narrow 48% to 46% lead over any generic democratic candidate.

I pointed out my father's postion only to demonstrate there are many folks who would normally vote Republican that are not please with this administration. If Republicans think they only have to beat liberals in the election and the Democrats can show they hold the political center, the economy continues to sputter in the job creation catagory and casualties continue to add up in Iraq, I think the President is quite vulnerable.

I watched some of the pundits last night after the President's speech and even Pat Buchanan described the President as vulnerable.

SA

"Outfitters, going for a fifty mile award, oh my eyes, the pain, why do you people need a patch in order to get out in the woods, and then why do you need to pay someone to do all of the planning, mapping, and Im sure paddling if you asked, this isnt camping people, this is a vacation. Have we forgotten about this little thing called leadership, and letting the boys plan the trips. There ought not be any need for a guide. "

This response was from another thread requesting info on 50 milers. I didn't want to distract that thread anymore than it looks like it might get so I started this one. While somewhat irreverant, the statement above has somewhat of a point. How much do you involve boy leadership in longrange trip planning? What types of thing do you have boys do? For example, we are looking into a High Adventure Trip for the summer of 2005. The camp is booked for 2004 and is currently taking reservation for 2005. The current boy senior leadership in the troop is 16 - 17 years old. They will most likely not be around when this trip takes place. They will probably be working or getting ready to go to college. The active boy leaders on this trip will probably be the 14 year olds that have just reached STAR and have very limited leadership experience. Any thoughts, ideas?

SA

I'll admit I was suprised at the Iowa results. A month ago I would have guessed Kerry was essentially out of it. I don't agree with much of Gephardt's politics but consider him one of the gentlemen of the Democratic Party. I'm suprised he didn't do better in Iowa.

It must be hard for the Republicans to restrain themselves over the results. This puts the Democratic nomination up for grabs, it will take time and still may get nasty. One thing they won't be able to count on though is taking pot shots at Dean. Bush may end up having to run against combat veteran like Kerry or the General. The past couple of elections Republicans have overwhelming taken the veteran vote but that could change. Ironically my father, a WWII vet, Bronze Star winner and three time voter for Richard Nixon is in the anybody but Bush camp, as are many of his veteran contemporaries. This could be interesting.

You have, my sympathies as well OT. Don't be too disheartened. You have my respect for making the effort and commitment you did.

SA

Buffalo2,

Thanks for the recommendation on High Knoll. Our troop is now looking into a trip possibility for 2005. The cost for Philmont($1800pp for our Council trip) has alway intimidated many in our troop from pursuing High Adventure trips. High Knoll looks very reasonable.

SA

NJ,

That's one of the most amazing pieces of trivia I've ever encountered. Do you make this stuff up?

SA

Johnson was a southerner, who sympathized with the plight of poor whites in the south and the effect the war had on them. Initially he intended to be rather harsh on the plantation owning class as he blamed them for the war, but soon realized that if this class was completely stripped of it's property (other than slaves) it would upend the established social order in the south. He really hoped things would kind of just go back to the way they were before the war. That free blacks would return to the fields, work for slave wages and things would move on. It's quite possible he also considered the political aspects of these policies. However, the newly freed slaves didn't seem to accept this approach.

Just happened to catch some stuff on Johnson on the History Channel this weekend. Certainly can't claim credit for knowing this stuff off the top of my head.

SA

Yes. Since on another thread we've admitted our ages I can say that for my First Class signaling requirement, I learned the morse code and the Wig Wag Flag method of sending and recieving it. Don't ask for much beyond SOS now though.

I remember this only because it was right around a district or council jamboree and one of the patrol competition stations was a signaling station. Our Patrol Leader was into Ham Radio and knew Morse by heart. I'll admit I memorized enough to pass a fairly tough test the week before at a troop meeting. This was a tough station. Anyway, most patrols in the competition used Semaphore Flags. We were the only patrol in the competition that used Morse Code. Few patrols scored high in this skill over the weekend. We were also one of the highest scoring Patrols in signaling getting a 49 points out of a possible 50. I missed one letter.

This would have been 1969. Later that summer, men would land on the moon, the Mets did not finish in last place and I began to work on merit badges and Star that summer in summer camp.

Thanks for digging up a fond Scout Memory Willy.

SA

I don't disagree that those that take up arms against the US government may give up certain civil rights. However the point of the article seems to be that when asked why this individual has not been given the opportunity to excercise his rights, the government could not come up with a good explantation. If the govenment is going to deny a citizen their rights, all the court is asking for is a valid explanation. In this instance, it appears the government lawyers to too lazy or dumb to come up with a reasonable explanation, or the government's official position is that it does not have to provide an explanation.

If a citizen is denied their rights, I want to know why. Not because I sympathize with a citizen that takes up arms against the US, but because I care about how the government chooses to repond to threats against the US government and it's citizens.

SA

As a relatively new scouter, my biggest challenge has been to try and help rehabilitate a troop that had lost it's way from the inside out. I kind of envy SM41's thread about starting a new troop. I wonder if that would be easier.

When my son and I first joined the troop, it had just changed scoutmasters. The SM for the previous 4 years had been very very hands off, rationalizing everything was boy led. Well as far as I could tell, his definition of boy led was 0 adult effort or input. The result was meetings that were kaos and campouts that were little more than take the kids into the woods and let them run around all weekend. (I know this only because my older son started with the troop during this time and he and his entire Webelos den that crossed over that year, quit within three months. At that time I was not in a position to participate as much as I would have liked to.) The first campout I went on with the troop, park rangers came to our campsite to ask that our scouts be a little more subdued for the benefit of others in the camping area. The campsite was going to be left a mess but I finally stepped in and said something. We actually formed a police line and picked up the trash. I was amazed this group had never done this outside of summer camp, where camp staff made them do it.

Fortunately, the group of parents that came in with the class of Webelos a year ahead of my younger son, and his class have been active and have helped the troop stablize and begin to grow again. But while they are active and enthusiatic, none had participated in scouts as a youth. I'll admit that initially we probably took over more control of the troop than adults should have, but we had an entire generation of scouts that had never experienced an organized troop meeting or campout outside of summer camp. Not suprisingly, the activity the scouts liked the most was summer camp, that did have an organized structure and planned activities for the scouts. Some of the more active adults are now particpating in District training programs and we're getting better. It hasn't helped that our district is not the stongest. As I noted in another thread, no list of MB counselors, and the training schedule is pretty thin. But there is new leadership there as well and some things seem to be improving.

This past year we have begun having the boys do more. Fortunately they elected a good, organized SPL this year, the first SPL in three years we won't have to change out mid year for participation or disciplinary reasons. We continue to improve, but we have a way to go yet. The next challenge that I see on the horizon it the fact that some parents and the scouts have started to become satisfied with the status quo. I'll admit that where we are now is lot better than where we were two years ago, but I also know we have further to go. While I initially got involved in the troop to help ensure my son had a positive experience, I'm now a Barry convert, I love this scouting stuff!

Thanks to all of you for posting issues and answers. Even in the disagreements I learn alot from this forum.

SA

Hooray for NJ for getting this thread back on topic. I'll admit to having been victimized by TwoCub's sense of humor in the past, but I got this one. That's why I posted something even more off the wall in my response.

I agree with NJ. The issue in the article is not the individual, but the fact that the government has held a citizen with no charge, for no stated period based on a classification by the President. If I read the article correctly, when asked to present an explanation for this in court, the best reason the government could come up with is something on the order of, "Because we've decided he's guilty," or "the President says so."

I have no sympathy for the individual involved, but recognize that if his rights can be violated with no explanation by the government, your civil rights and mine can just as easily be taken away, and that scares me. It should scare any American.

SA

" My CC will be at the first PLC to observe. (I will tape his mouth shut if he interupts."

An instructor I once had would put a role of duct tape out on his desk and leave it there. Finally someone asked what it was for. He said it was for anyone who spoke out of turn. Everyone was very polite.

SM41, I don't have much advice beyond what's been provided. Seems like it's all been very good and your on your way to a good start.

Just wish you luck and good fortune.

SA