scoutingagain

I believe the Hiking Merit Badge has a requirement for a 20 mile hike to give an idea of where the upper limit might be, if there is one. I've never heard or read of one. For me personally, even on flat ground, this would be an upper limit.

This reminds me of a friend of mine that once coached a high school girls cross country team. He would frequently take the girls on 5, 10 and 15 mile training runs. Every season he would get calls from Dads of new girls complaining that his little girl shouldn't run that far. That girls couldn't take that kind of training. Funny, he never got any complaints from the girls. By the way they were prennial conference and county champ contenders and won several championships. SA

If those are the kinds of questions and responses your getting, maybe the answer is to look into the kinds of training available from your council or district and volunteer to make arrangements to have the training brought out to the Troop Committee and leadership?

If all refuse to participate in training, well then maybe it's time to look into another Troop.

As noted by others it's hard to comment without more information on your situation and what your goals are, etc.

Just some thoughts.

I heard Whitey will consider volume discounts.

SA

How to get rid of the SM??

Begs a lot of questions.

Here in Boston I'ver heard there's a guy in Charlston you can talk to that will get you in touch with Whitey Bulger eventually... Oh! You want to relieve him of his postion. Sorry you'll have to wait for a response from Bob White or DSteele who will most likely have the most accurate information on how to do this. Still begs alot of questions though.

Welcome to the forums. There is a lot of good information here, just use whatever information you garner from these forums with a grain of salt. There a number of highly knowledgeable folks that participate here, but keep in mind this is not an official BSA website or forum.

Good luck.

SA

One of the network news magazine shows did a special on Don Rumsfeld last night. Very interesting. During the show they flashed a picture of a younger Rumsfeld in his scout uniform. They also mentioned he made a brief run for President, so he was a candidate at one time.

SA

Interesting posts. VentureScout, thanks for the info on Teddy R.

DSteele, I'm suprised you didn't suggest Dirk Pitt. Great outdoorsman. Seems to live the Scout Law. Unfortunately his job does require alot of travel and he might not be available for meetings and campouts.

SA

Sorry but I still seem to be spin handicapped.

This thread comes from the discussion regarding hisorical figures as scoutmasters in the alleged deadbeat dad thread.

What about Jesus? Great outdoor skills. He can walk on water. Would he still need a BSA Lifeguard card to monitor water activities? He can also make bread from stone and heal the injured. Great guy to have on a camping trip, but he did have that temper tantrum in the temple when he through the merchants out. Not very scoutlike behavior. However he did seem to get along with children. Hmmm?

What about Moses? Another great outdoorsman. One of the worlds greatest long term hike leaders and can part seas and find burning bushes.

Any others?

SA

Not to fully engage in the debate, but I thought I'd share a term I heard recently to describe:

Lazy, white, pampered, upper middle class teenagers, particularly those that like to dress down, but always seem to have the best name brand outdoor equipment and toys. ..."Trustafarians".

SA

marc,

I'll acknowledge what we do does smack slightly of "retesting". This situation arose when some members of the committee were under the impression that the BOR was supposed to be a "final exam". After many "discussions" we came up with this approach, really to assess the instructors/troop guides. It really is only one or two questions and the rest of the BOR is a general discussion with the scout and assessment of how he is doing with the troop. We have had some issues in the past with some senior scouts not doing their work in providing instruction, just signing requirements, and this was one way to assess how well the younger scouts were being instructed. The skill/knowledge question is not intended to intimidate the scout and we go out of our way not to do so.

I've enjoyed this thread and appreciate you initiating the discussion.

SA

I tried to spin this off from the thread on Professionals and thier volunteer time but seem to be spin handicapped.

So here's a new thread.

Having been employed in the private sector my entire career I can understand FOG's frustration expressed in the thread on scouting professionals and time for their volunteer scouting activities, relative to the understanding one's employer may have of time spent on scouting.

However, fortunately my current employer has been quite understanding. While I don't get time off for scouting, I have been able to rearrange my schedule so I can make Troop and Committee meetings on time and leave early an occaisonal Friday to make a trip or two. It is also actually part of my performance review, as leaders in our firm are encouraged to participate in local service organizations.

I also probably spend more time on this forum than I should.

It does help that our ex-CEO, my Boss and his two sons are all Eagle scouts though.

How does your employer respond to your involvment with scouting?

SA

We will ask scouts to demonstrate a skill or answer questions related to requirements associated with the rank they are going for during a BOR, however we have never, never held a scout back on advancement based on his skill or knowledge performance during the BOR. We will suggest to the scout he review specific material if he doesn't seem to know an answer or demonstrate the skill. It's usually just one or two short questions or demonstrations, and takes up less than 10% of the BOR. I like the idea of using real life situations rather than answering specific requirement questions though.

On a few occaisions we have identified a pattern indicating a particular leadership scout and sometimes adult scouter does not seem to be adequately teaching a skill or testing the scouts and use the information from the BOR more as a QC check on those that do the instruction and do the testing and have gone back to help those providing instruction and testing.

However, even though the scouts know(we specifically tell them) they will not "fail" the BOR if they don't answer the skill/knowledge questions correctly, informally I know most scouts make an effort to review material before the BOR because they want to be able to demonstrate they know their stuff.

SA

I have been on a self imposed restraint the last few days. Actually I took some time off and headed to the mountains with the Mrs. for a few days. See we've been married for 20 years and this was one of the few times we've been away without kids in quite awhile.

I'm kind of glad to see someone with some sense stepped in to cool things down. Before I left there was at least one comment that was quite upsetting to me and I thought about responding and decided the comment was not worthy of a response.

As far as punishing the whole troop goes, if the one disruptive individual begins to generate inappropriate behavior among others(and I include myself in this group) in the troop, sometimes it is appropriate to have the whole troop cool their jets.

Like NJ, I participate in this section primarily as a diversion and I was not comfortable with the direction of the tone of the discussion.

I wish all well and hope we've all put the time off the issues and politics section to good use. I know I did.

SA

There is some good insight in this thread, thanks for sharing all.

I generally use a coated nylon rainsuit and carry at least one emergency poncho as well. I am intrigued by the poncho/rainsuit pants combination though, but will keep in mind the float trip concerns.

SA

Like I've noted before, if it's true it's not braggin'. Sounds like some folks familiar with your efforts think you deserve the recognition. Congratulations!

Thank you NJ for posting something other than Greek.

Very interesting article. McCain won the New Hampshire Primary four years ago and in general did very well in New England. My feeling is that if he had been the Republican Nominee last time around he would have won several New England states, most probably NH, ME, RI and maybe even MA. That would have been quite an accomplishment for a Republican.

It is interesting he doesn't seem to know what steroids are or other mind altering substances. I suspect this is one subject that Bill Clinton, John Kerry and George Bush are much more familiar with than Mr. McCain.

I'm sure he can be a stubborn SOB at times. Such a ticket would drive the Republican Party nuts. Something I bet they didn't have on their radar and now their probably wondering if this could happen.

One thing I find a little perplexing is that this presidential campaign is basically taking place in a handful of key states that could go either way. There are probably 15-20 million voters in these key states that will decide the election. We here in Massachusetts will see very little of this campaign from either side.

SA

scoutldr,

I agree, the risk is real and this disease is potentially more harmful to a young person still undergoing physical development, which is why I brought up the subject and am suprised the GSS does not address the issue.

Going to the clinic for tick removal may work in a summer camp setting, but ticks are most active in the Northeast in the spring and fall, when most troops are camping on their own. Unfortunately we do not have an attractive female medical person to bring along. One dad is an EMT, but not all that attractive.

We will have a short session prior to our April camping trip on the issue. It's something we havn't done in the past but given the number of cases I've seen the last few years, Lyme disease is a real concern especially in southern New England and the Mid-Atlantic States.

On the plus side more physicians in our area seem to be able to recognize the disease. Only a few years ago many cases were missed or diagnosed incorrectly.

SA

As noted elsewher, If it's a fact, it ain't braggin.

SA

I noticed the GSS does not directly address Lyme disease, or at least I did not see it. Lyme Disease has been identified in all of the lower 48 states but is most prevalent in the Northeast from Virginia to New England and in the upper Mid West. As we head into April, ticks, the vector that transfers the disease to humans become active and Lyme disease rates tend to go up. General information on Lyme disease can be found on the CDC website at http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/submenus/sub_lyme.htm .

While it can be prevented with some precautions, every year my employer has 2-3 employees contract Lyme disease associated with working outdoors in wooded or semi-wooded areas. While the disease can be treated with anti-biotics, if undiagnosed it can become difficult to treat and quite painful.

What do your units do about Lyme disease?

SA

OGE I beg to differ, some of us seem to have escaped reality.

"Oh reality, it's not for me

And it makes me laugh

Oh, fantasy world and Disney girls

I'm coming back"

Brian Wilson, "Disney Girls", from Surf's Up, 1971. A man clearly ahead of his time.

SA

In addition to all the other great intellectual debates there is always the Ginger or Mary Anne question to consider.

As long as I went out a 5 star, I don't miss them.

SA

This was a waste of BSA $$$ and effort. The BSA has every right to set it's own membership criteria, however shouldn't be suprised that other organizations have similar rights and don't share BSA's point of view. The best thing is to donate directly to those organizations you want your money to go to for the reasons pointed out by Saltheart.

On a brighter note I noticed on the BSA Legal Issues site, the Federal Government has filed a brief in support of the BSA's position on the issue of the City Park Lease and that case seems like it has more merit.

SA

Thought I'd resurrect my intial post to provide an update, especially for those Troops in the Northeast that may be in similar situations.

Our Troop (I can say our, can't I?) has been primarily a car camping troop for the last 3-4 years. While we camp nearly every month of the year and have some significant winter camping experience, most of the scouts in the troop have never been on a backpacking trip.

My initial goal was to find a relatively short, easy hike for an overnight backpacking trip and I've found one. The Alander Trail is located in the Mt. Washington State Forest in the southwestern corner of Massachusetts has a number of primitive campsites located 1.5 miles in from the trail head. There are fire pits and an outhouse but no potable water. There is a stream about a 1/3 of a mile away from the campsites that would have water that could be filtered. The sites are free.

The trail meanders through a mixture of pine stands, hardwood and meadows and includes a couple of interesting stream crossings. While it goes up and down a few hundred feet there is no net elevation gain over the 1.5 miles. Another 1.5 miles past the campsites is the summit of Mt. Alander. One description of the summit is that it provides some of the best views in Western Mass.

We will be doing the overnight on this trail in April. Like I said, this will be the first backpacking experience for all but 1 or 2 scouts. We'll be spending the next few meetings breaking out some of the troop's backpacking stoves and water filtration equipment to see what still works and what if anything needs to be repaired or replaced. I'll let you know how the trip turns out.

SA

There is a medal available for scouts that take action to save a life. We had a scout awarded the medal after he administered first aid and called 911 when a friend of his put his hand through a glass door and was bleeding profusely. EMT's indicated had the scout not taken immediate action the boy probably would have bled to death.

It sounds as if the scout subject to this event qualifies for this medal. It is not the same one as when a scout puts his own life in danger to save a life, but is a prestegious award. There is also a knot associated with it.

Being trained to do something and actually having the presence of mind to do it in an emergency situation are two different things. I highly commend this scout for keeping his cool, recognizing the problem and taking steps to save a life. I'm thrilled such scouts exist and hope he gets the medal he deserves.

I still love FOG's line about why we don't hear about soccer players saving lives. Wonder how many super jocks were on the bus that had no clue as to what to do?

SA

I would concurr as well. We do things pretty much the same way. Membership eligible friends of scouts, with prior notice, and direct family members, with a parent have sometimes joined us on trips and outings. Can't say we've had the issue come up with respect to a friend of a non-scout.

SA

Bumps to FOG and EVMORI. I'll confess I thought Elizabeth Montgomery was pretty hot in her day. Especially as the series continued and her skirts got shorter and shorter.

Hey, I was an adolescent male teen. give me a break.

At least, folks "earn" my bumps and I've never given a down bump....yet. And I'm back up to 5 star!

SA

Since this thread has deteriorated into a series of free bumps, I thought I'd add little. I'll give a set of thumbs up for the first person to name the character on an old late 60's TV show that used the phrase, "My stars!" Additional bumps for the name of the actor(actress) and title of the show.

SA