scoutingagain

The event is reportedly on video. Anyone see the video?

Now it does sound like the boys involved certainly did something. I just don't think we will have all the information that a Judge or jury will have if this ever goes to trial.

Regardless, it sounds like the 21 year old is facing some serious charges for sure.

SA

We will never know the true story simply reading newpaper articles and sound bite news clips. We are not in a position to have all the evidence and make a judgement. And don't necessarily believe that, "Deputies usually don't arrest people and lay charges without good cause."

We had four scouts from the unit I serve arrested and charged with a felony. I'm not going into details on the specifics but when it got in front of a prosecutor(not even a Judge) he dropped all charges. (We're they doing something they shouldn't do? Yes. Was it criminal? No Were they punished? Yes, by their parents) Needless to say this event has somewhat adjusted my opinion of at least some of our local law enforcement individuals as well as local media.

Just pointing out don't believe everything you read in a local paper, especially from a reporter that can't even spell.

Having said that, Anyone guilty of duct taping a 12 year old, taking him someplace against his will and forcing him to drink urine is guilty of a crime. Juveniles involved would likely have their record sealed or expunged once at some point, depending on any previous encounters with the Justice System. A 21 year old could be in big trouble if found guilty of such a crime.

BTW, at least in Massachusetts, anyone 17 or older is considered an adult in the Justice system, hence names can be published. Don't know what the age of adult prosecution is in other states but it is not the same as voting, drinking etc. Something if you may want to make any 16 yo or 17 you know aware of.

SA

If the guy is not yet SM, and has expressed interest or applied for the position and the COR and CC don't believe he is the best qualified candidate all that needs to be said is, "We appreciate your interest but we don't see a need for your service." If he asks why, they can choose to explain the facts of life to him or not. They don't need a reason to not appoint him as SM. An honest appraisal of their reasoning might help the individual improve, but from what it sounds like, I doubt it.

SA

Agree with the Citizenship MB stuff, as well as Cooking being Eagle required.

Disagree with the Cub Scout Tenderfoot badge and agree T21 should be sequential. This would slow down advancement a bit. Our entire new class of scouts this spring seem to be in a race to get 1st Class by next December and Eagle ASAP.

Agree with the girls organization. Someone suggested running a camporee type thing in a town square or other highly visible location. We did that a few years back. We could have started a troop of girls with those that expressed interest in outdoor activities but had to tell them to wait and referred them to Venturing when they were old enough.

Of course if Troops of girls come into existence, I can hear the cries of the old guard now when they show up to compete at a council Klondike Derby. Heaven forbid they beat some of the boy troops or worse even win. LOL

SA

"Most of your camping will be weekend 'base' camping, where you go out somewhere and not move your base around.

You might go backpacking once a year, which means a new base every day. It is better to prepare for the camping you are doing 88% of the time, than to prepare for the camping you do 12% of the time. "

Sorry I have to disagree. Most of your camping will be what you and the boys decide it to be. Don't feel constrained by what many, if not, most of the troops do. If you have ambitions of becoming a true outdoor adventure organization, follow the advice and get the light weight backpacking equipment. If your desires are more along becoming a big troop with your own bus, trailer etc. and taking over a group car camping site like the 3rd Army...go for the big patrol boxes, two burner stoves, big cook kits, propane lanterns, dutch ovens, plywood tables, etc. But the important part is you and the boys get to decide the outdoor experience you want. Both can be part of good troop program, but as noted, you can use the light weight stuff while car camping, you can't use the big stuff too far from the vehicles.

My other advice would be rather than to submit a grant application, ask the grant organzation what they need done, and have the boys "earn" their gear.

Good luck.

SA

Mafking,

One other thing I've noticed about paintball. When I've done it with boys of scout age they tend to have much more experience with the event than the adults who participate. Consequently it's the boys that tend to lead the teams. It seems to be one of the few venues where adults readily follow youth leaders without question. More irony.

SA

I noted this in one of the earlier Laser Tag threads, but we had the same issue come up for paint ball several years ago. We handled it the same way High Country did. If the boys wanted to do paint ball, and do it as a non-scout function that was fine, but they would get no assistance in organizing the event from adult scouters and could not do any planning or organizing at meetings. Had to be completely offline.

Turned out to be probably the most boy led activity they ever engaged in.

This is not circumventing the rules. This is a bunch of guys doing something they like to do that has nothing to do with scouting or the scout unit.

SA

It probably is a good idea to include WFA into the regular FA MB or even add it as a separate MB and make it an optional Eagle required MB in place of FA.

However it's totally out of place as a rank requirement, especially at the STAR level. If the general advancement expectation is 1st class in the 1st year, that makes it a requirement for the next rank for 12 & 13 year olds. Doesn't make sense.

Besides, if we are to believe other threads, scouting is supposed to be de-emphasizing the whole outdoor adventure thing anyway. Why then promote WFA? Maybe better to promote urban trauma first aid. Sorry...my cynicism comming through.

SA

Well I was going to post I'm the Eagle Advisor for the unit I serve and fullfill the functions pretty much outlined by Gern. I can honestly say other than an occaisional, "How's the application coming?" or "Have you thought about any idea's for a project?", I do little of the cajoling, nagging, prodding etc.

Now Mojo,

As Pack noted I'm sure the adults think they're doing some good here. It may be that if your son is the goody good type, and only 13, they may feel he needs some maturing to really be Eagle material. I don't agree with it but I can't really say what's motivating them. However, they should be telling him what he needs to do to meet the requirements, not just holding him up. Other than,"not giving back enough to the troop", what have they suggested he do to complete the requirements?

Having said that consider, if you do transfer to another unit, and he has the support of the adult leadership of that unit, he can complete his Eagle relatively quickly. Yes, the District Advancement Chair may deny him at the District EBOR, but this is appealable to the Council and ultimately to National. If your son has completed all the requirements, has his paperwork in order, has all the merit badges etc., he will get his Eagle. The toughest nut to crack going to a new unit in my opinion would be the time in a postion of responsibility(POR). If that is not signed off at the time of transfer, I could see a new SM wanting to see this requirement completed on his watch. This could also be done in a Venture Crew. He does not need to stay in a troop to complete his Eagle requirements.

Good luck,

SA

The boats head to Galway this Saturday but not after what appeared to be a well attended scout event on scout day. In addition to the race crews other important scouts were in attendance...in uniform.

See http://www.jamd.com/image/in-search/images/#66g86872837

For the Sea scouts in the group, the boats put on quite a show in Boston's inner harbor last Sunday. Match races in the harbor, running under shortened sail in 30 - 40 knot gusts.

SA

For SMDon my suggestion is along the lines of, what do you do when your SPL is unavailable? To whom does the responsiblity fall? This happened a couple of times on outings and the SPL simply didn't get up. After several attempts I went over to the ASPL's tent, told him he was acting SPL for the day and to get everyone going. The ASPL did so cheerfully and the SPL was told he didn't need to get up the ASPL was in charge. Needless to say tne SPL seemed to get the message.

Like Barry, this has been a rare issue for us. If the boys know there is an activity scheduled for the next day and there is a time constraint they are very good about getting each other up and going.

SA

Just to be clear on what a Yankee is; from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee

The term Yankee, sometimes abbreviated to Yank, has a few related meanings, often referring to someone of Northern U.S. origin or heritage. Within the United States its meaning has varied over time. Originally the term referred to residents of New England as used by Mark Twain in A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. During and after the American Civil War its meaning expanded to include any Northerner or resident of the states formerly on the Union side of the war, and included anyone from the Northeast (New England, Mid-Atlantic, and upper Great Lakes states). After the Civil War the term gradually reverted to its earlier meaning of New Englander,[1] although Southerners often continue to use the extended meaning.

Outside the United States, Yank or Yankee is a slang term, sometimes derogatory, for any U.S. citizen.

To me a yankee is one who lives and has deep roots in northern New England and is characterized by stoic self reliance. Think of the Vermont dairy farmer or Maine Lobsterman.

SA

As Frank17 notes, the actual project work may not take more than a weekend, with a lot of effort, but it's the Bureaucracy that will be a challenge. In our district, projects are reviewed by the District Advancement Chair once at month at Roundtable. If the plan needs to be redone, it's usually wait until next month, but most fly first time around, at least if the lad has a knowledgeable adult or advisor review the plan before it's presented.

Once the plan is accepted things could move pretty quickly if everthing else is lined up well. i.e. materials, labor, organization that benefits from the project, sign offs etc. But 6 weeks is probably a realistic time frame as a minimum and that assumes there are no other hiccups in the process. Anything less than that would be pushing it.

SA

Reminds me of a hike a took with a few friends years ago in NH a few days after hunting season had opened. While we didn't exactly bang pots and pans, we did sing, talked and shout out, "Human Beings Approaching!) every few hundred yards.

Quiet solitude in the wilderness has it's place. When your sharing it with a few hundred people who go out in the woods a few days a year with a firearm intent on shooting something is not one of them. Now now, I realize not all hunters are trigger happy morons, but even the most careful among the hunting croud would have to agree there are more than their fare share out there.

SA

I know adults are adults, but that doesn't mean group rules or expectations shouldn't apply to them just as much as the youth. I generally have no problem with those that want to stay up late if they are quiet and respectful of those of us that like to hit the sack early. If they are loud and I can't get to sleep at 11:00...well then for some reason I find it difficult to be quiet preparing my morning coffee at 6:00am.

My main concern would be for drivers though. A campout can be a tiring experience even without the all night primal bonding event. If I were a parent, I'd be concerned about my little Johnny getting into a vehicle with a driver who's had 2-3 hours sleep, after a day of hiking or other outdoor activity. Our council had a fatality involving a youth member of a Venture crew returning from Sea Base a couple of years ago when the driver fell asleep at the wheel.

SA

Calico,

You are correct the COL is caught in the middle. Someone who follows the issue more closely than I can confirm, or elaborate, severaly years ago I believe the COL, the Minuteman Council, and several others in MA, NJ and NY asked National for essentially a local option rule for their councils, (primarily to avoid the loss of some fundining sources), but their requests were denied.

SA

And there wasn't a dry eye in the house.

Cool.

SA

In the unit I serve, the troop buys the basic award kit, medal patch, parent and mentor pins. For the last couple of Eagles we also purchased Eagle knots, as the boys had aged out by the time the ECOH was held.

The unit typically pays for a cake, and a flower arrangement for the Eagle's Mom. The unit also coordinated letters of congratulations from politicians, etc. The unit also provides the Eagle's family a list of local pols and VIPs that are typically invited. i.e. local state rep., state senator, selectman, IH and COR. We have been fortunate as our local state rep has shown up at about 80% of the ECOHs and if he was not able to, sends a personalized letter, not a form letter.

The Eagle and his familiy choose time and location in coordination with unit leadership. They pay for meals, refreshments. They have ranged from backyard hot dogs & burgers to catered affairs. Our family chose to give the unit a new Dutch Oven in appreciation of their efforts to help our son along his scout career.

The troop runs the ceremony, with any minor additions/deletions the Eagle wants, i.e. specific guest speaker,i.e a teacher, coach, or mom wants to read a poem, whatever. It's his ceremony.

The SPL acts as MC and the boys run the ceremony. This is big and sometimes a hurdle for the Eagle's parents. For my wife, she just didn't see how the SPL could do it. For many of the adults and relatives attending this is one of the few times they see youth acting in a leadership capacity in what they believe will be an adult run function. In the seven plus years I've been associated with the unit and some 8-10 Eagle COHs, the boys have never let us down in an Eagle COH. And to see our group in action sometimes, they can be as unruly and as undisciplined as 11-17 year old boys can be, but they always come through in an ECOH.

SA

"Our republic is sorely in need of a third party. Blue dog Democrats and socially liberal Republicans need a home, along with all the thoughtful independents who are disgusted with all the partisan games being played by both sides."

Amen. As an independent I'm tired of too often of having to pick between the lesser of two what I consider poor choices. In the last Presidential election I voted for the Democrat only because the candidate of my choice did not make it through the primaries. The 2000 version of Senator McCain.

SA

Well perhaps I should have said they are not likely to change units.

More to the point, it doesn't sound like this unit is likely to make the cultural change these boys are looking for in the next couple of years if they havn't done so in the last 3 or 4. So they may need to get their independent outdoor experience outside of scouting. That's a shame.

One other thought. And here's a plug for a NH Council High Adventure Experience. Hidden Valley Scout Camp offers a Valley Voyager program that includes a 4-5 day backpacking experience in the White Mountains of NH...Lead by Camp Staff. "A Scout must be at least 14 years old, a swimmer and happy about carrying a backpack" Adult unit leaders do not participate.

See: http://www.nhscouting.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=17388&orgkey=1812 .

SA

Seems like your question was asked and answered well.

I just have a hahd time believing there are "wicked smaht" kids outside of New England.

Not that they're not smaht, they just can't be "wicked" smaht.

SA

If the boys are 15 - 16 year old scouts, they're not going to change units at this stage of the game.

Lisa,

I'm looking at this specific issue a bit differently. Not every outing a scout goes on with his friends who also happen to be scouts has to be a unit, patrol or even scout event.

Doesn't your son and his friends ever do anything without the scout unit's adult leadership around? Why can't one of those activities be a simple campout/hike among friends? Those invited to attend? Has no one ever gone into the woods with just friends and not felt the need to fill out forms and follow Gospel as written by Irving, TX?

Imagine the adults response to the next scout outing when none of the boys sign up.

"Why didn't you guys sign up for the trip next weekend?"

"Oh it really sound fun and I'd like to go but my friends and I had other plans that weekend. We're going camping/hiking at someplace, Else. I'll make the next trip."

SA

One of Dirty Harry's greatest lines was, " A man's got to know his limitations." I'm thinking young Scott is rethinking his.

I' sure he's a very knowledgable outdoorsman and could hike circles around me. But I honestly don't know anyone...and I mean anyone who could expect to hike those 17 miles through some of the toughest terrain in the US, in several feet of soft snow, in a day.

Glad he's OK. Probably a good kid who stretched himself a little too far.

SA

"Sorry for the obvious pride in this post - just couldn't help myself. "

I know the feeling. Congratulations to you and your son. I think it was Beavah that noted the parent Eagle pin is tougher to earn than the youth award. Good job and a great project.

SA

What do you consider the minority view?

SA