scouter-mom

Our small district has two Varsity Teams, both of which were built out of two troops. Neither unit is LDS. I believe the youth are dual registered with their troops and teams. (I know that they are in one unit for certain.)

Also, in another district within our council there is a non-LDS unit that is a Varsity Team. There are probably others within our council that I am not aware of.

These units seem to offer their youth a chance to do activies away from the younger youth, as well as offer them a different opportunity to earn different types of awards.

All four of our district's LDS units have Varsity Teams. I am not aware of any of them earning Varsity awards, though.

Just sharing.

In regards to the mildew smell, what about trying some water and white vinegar solution, spraying it onto to the tent surface, then letting it dry? (Or using white vinger in the rinse if you attempt any washing?)

Years ago my sons had to take a small scrub brush, soap and water to our first tent that has been put away dirty. Afterwards we gently used a damp cloth to wipe it off. We left it set up to dry and then sprayed the outside with a water repellent product (and let that dry thoroughly). We did use that tent for a couple of more years. It was a cheap, off-brand tent. Perhaps that wasn't the best way, but what did we know?

A troop I served years ago had a similar situation. The committee agreed that scouting can be of benefit to most. Because we wanted to ensure safe haven for all, it was mandated that the youth with a "drug issue" was always accompanied by his parents or legal guardian.

Just Asking: It's a tough issue. Have you spoken with your Unit Commissioner or District Commissioner? In our situation the drug use expanded beyond school and community and into a scout outing...and that's when a parent-attached-to-the-youth's-hip mandate came into use. Because the drug-user was a minor, our SE reminded us that we had to keep discussions very limited (as to what the problem was and who the youth was). It was a mess, but there were no more drugs on outings.

Everyone stands at our ceremonies.

Of course we usually don't have a huge number of inducties (once we had 50 ordealies), so they aren't hugely long. We encourage OA observers....a welcoming committee of sorts.

I would vote for those who are in discomfort while standing being allowed to sit. For myself, although sometimes standing on the side of a hill is extemely uncomfortable, I am willing (and able) to stand.

I have been experiencing similar events as jr56. Sometimes, when I try to open a thread, nothing happens. I wait and then try again. Some days and/or the time of day seems to also make a difference.

I figured that some of this is due to my old fashioned dial up connection.

I also thought that probably scouter.com is experiencing growing pains.

I really enjoy this site, I especially enjoy the forums. So, if the delays are part of the process, I am thankful that scouter.com is finding ways to grow and handle the load.

I agree with evmori.

I would add that if a youth does not have a regular exposure to "walking the walk" (ie: making decisions based on religious tenets), and feels safe enough to question God's existence, then I want him in scouting if he is choses to stay in scouting. I would rather have him explore his doubts in a group that espouses living the values, than have him excluded from that very group.

It's not wrong to question. For some, that is the path to a stronger ownership in their belief and faith.

Something to consider would be the number of active parents who are members of the committee and how comfortable they are with their duties.

How large is the troop? How many committee members are there? Some committees are large and there are many individuals doing the work. Some committees are small with the few members sharing many "hats" and duties.

Do you know your Unit Commissioner? Among other considerations, you might want to get some feed back from your UC.

I think that you are super to seriously consider the job.

S-M

Was there a motion on the floor?

If so, AYE!

If not, I so move.....(or I'll second that motion).

Amen.

I know it's not in the east, but what about Philmont's horse treks? They take venturing crews. Besides having an awesome high adventure program and an awesome training center, Philmont is also a working ranch,with bison, cattle, hay production and working horses.

I think their prices are far more reasonable than most private ranches with trail rides.

Just a thought. Hey, let us know where you do end up going and how it went. (Is the crew planning on getting any horsemanship/riding experience under their belts before the actual trip? As a horseman, and certified instructor, I'd highly encourage it !)

Have a blast, and be safe!

Help!

At a national level training conferance this summer I learned that Brotherhood "testing" is no longer done.

When I brought this up in our Lodge, everyone was surprised. Brotherhood testing will be conducted at our fall ordeal since no one seems to be able fo find the National directive that directs a change from testing.

I did explain that a scout is honest and if the scout says he has learned the necessary parts, then he has. While the "Brotherhood hike" was not fully explained to me, I did suggest to our folks that I would imagine that it involves moments of thought and reflection.(which is mentioned in some of the posts here)

This thread leads me to believe that our lodge should not be testing. Our staff advisor, lodge advisor and lodge chief are unaware of the "new" brotherhood conversion method.

Could someone help me to find current information that explains or 'defines' the botherhood conversation without the testing?

The only place I have found something concrete so far is in the current Guide to Inductions, page 50, the Brotherhood Induction.(I have a copy of the current or about to be current booklet,there is not a date on it anywhere.) Is there anything else out there?

Thanks.

Just my 2 cents worth:

I think that Baden said it best, and many others have added to it.

National events and Philmont definately add to the scope. They do not replace district or council events, they add to them.

Both of my sons have loved and participated in our district and council events. Those events have added to their scouting experience and "scope".

I confess that probably my "military brat" up bringing causes me to encourage such participation. It is the over-view and scope.

A few years ago, while serving as DC, I was invited to a pack's B&G. My sons accompanied me. It was a very pleasant B&G. But it was interesting to realize (one of my sons pointed this out) that for most of the families, their scouting world ended at the pack. There was no awareness of the existence of a district, let alone the existence of the council. That's ok. When my oldest was still in cubs, our understanding of district was limited to a two-district Scout-a-Rama and a wonderfully dedicated DE.

Both of my sons are out going individuals and have thrived with their expanded experiences in scouting.

Our ex-SM's oldest chose to follow his summer camp director out of state to a beautiful, rugged BSA summer camp. It's not Jamboree or Philmont, but it has definately added to his "scope" in scouting (and life).

I think that it is wonderful that scouting has many layers to it, and that all are helpful, beneficial and often enlightening.

And, most importantly, the foundation at pack or troop level is just as beneficial.

"Just a mom's" view point of view.

This is just a helpful note for those working with Asperger youth. Very often looking into someone's face or eyes is very, very uncomfortable and painful. However, most can look in the general area of one's face. When asking one of my Asperger charges to focus on our conversation, I ask them to look around my face, so I know they are listening. I also explain that most folks expect them to look in the general area of their face and eyes when speaking to them. Those with aspergers often have very strong and painful sensory input from trying to focus on faces.

Just sharing.

In reply to SR540Beaver:

AMEN to that!

s-m

Wow! How way cool!

Zig has always been one of my favorites! I remember that he said that when we are asked how we are doing, we should answer, "GREAT!".

In case we truely aren't doing very well at that moment, we are not telling a lie, we are just telling the truth in advance:) !

Silver Buffalo, BSA Executive committee....how fortunate for us!

Really!

Evmori,

In my somewhat limited access I can say that in our District there are some COs that do select their unit's leaders. There is a family that charters a troop (and a pack for a limited amount of time)...and they do chose their leaders, and have removed them also.

Of course, the LDS CO's chose their leaders (and remove them).

Other COs take suggestions from the other scouting adults and the COR signs off.

From what I know of in my district, the COs involvement in the selection of unit leaders runs the full gamut from very involved to barely involved.

Location, location, location.

It's gotta help in the pool for prospective membership.

In regards to the more affluent families being able to have their kids in activities, I've observed it in our town. On the affluent side of town, the middle school band is larger with student owned new instruments.

On the far less affluent side of town, the middle school band is smaller (campus population is pretty even, if anything there are more students at the less affluent side) with fewer student owned instruments. Both schools have excellent band directors.

But, in a nearby town, I've also witnessed the "if you build it, they will come" phenomena with a troop. When a terrific program was built up, the scouts came.

A population pool to pull from is often helpful, but a great program is also needed.

Hourman, I will do my best to address your questions. Before I begin in that direction, I would like to clarify my role with these units. When someone says "leader" I think of the program side of the units. I serve on the committe side of these units. I have attended campouts, though, as have other LDS moms in our units.

Q-1: I am not aware of a non-LDS parent in our district who has taken on the responsibility of registering as a scouter with a LDS unit. However, I am sure that there are many who do so throughout our country. So, I do not believe that I am an "exception to the general rule."

In our units, there are LDS parents who appear to think that the church should supply everything, including leaders and other volunteers for their son's units. I have frequently heard our LDS scouters bemoan this. Because I am willing to step up and assist where I can, the adult infra-structure has seemingly been pleased to have me aboard.

In the next district over, a friend of mine who is LDS, belongs (with her sons and her husband) to an outside (of LDS chartered) troop. In her ward (congregation)the unit seemed to be more of a paper unit with the attitude of letting the boys play basketball for the duration of troop meetings. (hmmm....a sports oriented venturing crew opportunity?)

She and her husband are WB graduates, serve on the WB staff, serve at the council level and Lodge. I don't think it is a problem for them. This is a thoughtful, caring, giving and reverent family.

Q-2. "Double standards." Double standards seem to be all over the place. I am certain that there are many units (whoever their chartering organizations are) who are meticulous in following BSA guidelines and policies. Having also served as UC, ADC, DC and now District Advancement Chair, I have seen many non-LDS units who practice double standards and short-cut BSA policies. (Which reflects often in the unit's adult leaders lack of training and hurts the program supplied to their youth members.)

If by double standards, you are referring to the need to meet age requirements for unit membership (typically CS and transition to BS, but also as a team and crew member)as well as the Blazer program.....that has been agreed to with National. I don't consider that to be a double standard. I consider that to be an accommadation (religion-wise).

An experienced (WB staffer) member of BSA and a member of our CO has told me that I could serve as an ASM. I don't believe that I would be eligible (via the CO) for the position of SM. I don't take that personally, that is the right of any CO. I can serve the unit(s) in other ways. Hey, as long as there are other units available for the youth in the area, CO's can restrict membership. We have two Christian based COs who restrict membership in their units. In one the joining members must declare that Jesus Christ is their savior. In the second, specifically "Mormans" are not welcomed. How scoutly (NOT). But, when I asked (at district and council level) about the BSA policy in these restrictions, I was told that Chartering Organizations can do that as long as other units exist in that area to serve others.

Now, I have observed occasions where LDS scouting adults have attempted to transport BSA youth without a tour permit on file, claiming that the transport is covered by (LDS) church insurance, as it is also a church activity. Other LDS moms have joined me in putting their foot down on this. Besides, if the youth accomplish skills that count toward their BSA advancement on such an outing, if there is not a tour permit on file, and one is using the church for insurance, then those skills don't count at that time and cannot be signed off (right?), I mean, then it appears to me that it is no longer a scouting activity but it is a church activity. In truth, we have put our foot down because the tour permits covers us appropriately.

Q-3. I have never heard that the "LDS Church Leadership has threatened to pull all of its kids our of BSA and start a different program of their own if BSA ever changes its policy of not allowing openly gay members". I have no idea, but I doubt it. As a CO, they determine who their registered adults are.

I would suspect, that if your understanding is correct, that many would enroll their boys in non LDS chartered units. That's just my humble guess, though.

I can say that I have had many discusions with many LDS members: friends, fellow scouters, members of the church, and a DE. Similar to "free will" , their church addresses "free assignment" as to the choices one makes. You make your choices and there are consequences, some small, some large, some pleasant, some not.

I can also remember when we had two brothers with two moms. The moms were not registered adult scouts. Their boys were welcomed. The other moms (of youth in the unit) referred to the "second mom" as the first mom's room-mate, and positively commented on how well she related to those boys. No one got their knickers in a twist....or second guessed their relationship.

Q-4: LDS vs Morman. I don't consider either politically incorrect. I do not know what the LDS Church view point is on that. I do not consider "Morman" to be disrespectful. Mormans are members of the Church of Latter Day Saints, hence LDS. My LDS friends and scouters often use the term "Morman".

In closing, I would like to add that my boys did visitthe other local troop before joining the LDS unit. A point in time came where the three of us (sons and self) visited other units and transferred to one a couple of towns over. That lasted less than two years. There are problems and conflicts and disappointments (and double standards) in many units. We decided that our original unit had more positive merits for our family and our journey in scouting.

YIS, S-M

PS, I think we are way, way off of the BSA racism topic. I am going to read the forum thread that Boleta mentioned.

While this post does not reply to BSA the racism inquiry, I thought I could add information to the LDS aspect of the previous post.

For what it is worth, I am a non-LDS member who serves an LDS chartered troop and crew (yes they have a team also, I just don't serve that unit this year).

The troop does hold elections for POR. Non LDS youth have served as SPL, ASPL, PL, APL, and so forth. We do have an African-American youth member (who is a member of the church).

Youth movement from one unit to another is determined by age if the youth is an LDS member. The non-LDS youth follow the BSA age/school grade guidelines.

The equivalent of of the NBP would be the Blazer program. Under LDS guidelines, LDS youth under the age of 12 are Blazers. They are not allowed to go on overnight campouts without their dad (or parent). My sons could go on overnights without my attendance when they were under 12.

IMHO, and limited experience (my sons and I have been with non-LDS units also, and I also serve at district level), our LDS units experience no more "bumps in the road" than any other unit. Also, every LDS unit (and ward, which is basically a congregation)is unique and different unto itself.

It is true that the SM (or Advisor) is selected by a devine method, including prayer. Sometimes we get someone with scouting experience. Sometimes we get someone who values training and seeks training out. We had one SM serve for 8 years, and did take the SM fundamentals. He understood BSA methods and guidelines.

Since the LDS church has chosen the BSA as the young men's program as their young men's program, they are expected to attend the necessary trainings and to follow G2SS and other BSA polices.

Our units have attended camps out of council and have checked in on the regular Sunday check in time. This has been accomplished by traveling on Saturday, camping over night in that area, attending an LDS service at the local LDS Church, and then proceeding to the camp. If our units were to attend our Council summer camp, they check in on Monday. Our weekend camping trips are from Friday evening to Saturday afternoon or evening. If at all possible, out units plan campouts around a three day weekend (school holiday on a Friday) and leave on Thursday (late afternoon/evening). Often there is a lot of adult support for this, with self-employed dads, or retired (scouters, registered with the unit)

men to accompany the youth.

Just thought I'd share my personal experience and knowledge of LDS scout units.

In regards to "too early", it's the scout and the requirements met. Every scout is different and is motivated by different driving influences in his environment.

I want to address the comment of phoning to let the SM (or individual waiting for you) know that you are running late. If you haven't left yet, and know you'll be late, it's polite to call to let them know, especially if you're way behind schedule (more than 15 minutes, perhaps). However, if you are on the road, and soon realize that you will be late, if you stop at a phone booth (and if that phone is in working condition) you will add another 10 minutes to the trip. Now you are 20 or more minutes late, not 10 minutes. Not everyone has a cell phone. At first one would think, "ah it'll be just 2 extra minutes to make that call." However, varying traffic conditions affect the process of pulling into a location with a pay phone, and getting back on the road often takes longer than one expects it to.

Just an observation.

What about sewing them onto a blanket, creating a type of quilt, a wall hanging as a display?

Just an idea. (I like sst3rd's idea!)

Another helpful hint when working on activity pins:

Many times (helps to prepare ahead, obviously) you can set up various "stations" where the scouts do one part of an activity, then move on to the next "station". It's done round robin style. You can get parents and your den chief to monitor each "station".

I helped and assisted many times with such a set up. It worked pretty well.

I think that Evmori and Watercub are right on the money.

My real life job is in special education at the elementery (school) level. Youth with different perspectives, different neurological wiring,and problems still have to learn to moderate their behavior (as perceived by others)and know that there are consequences for inappropriate actions and behaviors. I would think that kicking him out would be the absolute last resort. As others have suggested, if needed, I would find another unit for him, and help him see that the transfer is a positive move. But first, see what help is out there.

One has to be cautious of not breaking confidentiality policies, but if the public school this youth attends has him in an IEP (individual education plan), they might see that his social growth and/or needs would be improved by his growth in scouting. The school might be a resource in helping to find a volunteer 'one on one' adult for him in scouting. It'd be worth a try. I agree that being a DL and helping this young guy is a very difficult mix.

If needed, I do think it is appropriate to have the parent stay (unless the child is worse with the parent there). Perhaps there is a volunteer within the district that could help 'one on one' with that youth while at den meetings and activities. Have you talked to your Unit Commissioner or District Commissioner? They can be a great resource!

Lastly, as long as this youth does not consistently create a situation that is not safe (for himself as well as others), I think that kicking him out would be devastating to him. There's a teachable moment with the youth and all the adults, scouters and parents (not registered as scouters) as well.

This is a world of diversity and everyone can be a part of a peaceble solution and understanding. This is a great place to start that education and understanding (even if that's not what you signed on to do....).

I agree that BW and John-in-KC are correct.

I distinctly remember where the question is asked (on the YP video presentation) by an audience member (para-phrased here), "What do we do if are pretty sure something is wrong, but we do not have first hand evidence of it in our own interaction with the youth?"

The answer was that we don't need "proof" of first hand information. We do not become the investigator. We turn the concern over to our SE, who contacts the authorities.

In the state where I currently live, I am aware that in most youth organizations it is mandatory that adult volunteers (or employees) take that organization's youth protection (my label) training. I did this in our youth soccer program, and also as an employee of the school district. They all insist that if we see or hear of anything that is unsafe, illegal, involving that youth, we are to report it. Some trainings tell you to go through the organization's head individual, others have you inform the head individual, and then you report it to child protection services. This is a serious responsiblity. If I knew of a youth who was drinking alcohol and did not report it (in my state), I could lose my job with the school district. If that youth was involved in a vehicular accident while under the influence of alcohol (of other illegal substance), I could be considered part of the problem for not previously reporting it. We live in a litigious society where we must protect people from their choices. Also, I would personally feel responsible for not attempting to let the authorities know (if I didn't report that problem/concern with or without direct knowledge of the problem) and there was an accident.

Don M, I appreciate your concern!

Interestingly enough, I heard a presentation this summer from the individual who is the BSA professional for advancement at National. Now perhaps I don't have his title correctly stated, nor do I have his name at my fingertips, but his office is where "the buck stops" for advancements and appeals. He strongly emphasized that one should keep and preserve the documentation of merit badge (or other advancement) completion.

Many of us in the audience were concerned with the new trend at summer camps, etc of "no blue cards" but a computer print out instead. It was especially a concern for those who attended out of council summer camps.

The merit badge completions are recorded on the advancement form just as they would be usually. You don't need to make out blue cards. (But doing it the way you are creates another piece of documentation, which is a good thing.)

The most important thing of all, besides getting the advancement report off to your council office, is that the youth keep and protect his documentation of merit badge completion.

If there is ever a question, especially when processing the application for Eagle, it is important to have the documentation (of rank advancement dates and merit badge completion dates) available. You never know what could put a speed bump in the process, but it does happen. The documentation is a form of insurance.

Hope this helps.

Scouter-Mom