scouter-mom

At first reading (I've been following this post for a week), I thought perhaps my gut reaction was because I am a mom. (I am against using push-ups as punishment or as a consequence for unwanted behavior).

I think that push-ups as part of a PT program is fine. Push-ups used as stated in the original post (punishment, consequence, coercion) are poorly used. It is a use of power.

Many youth do not have the leadership skills and intra- and inter-personal skills to lead without using the power issue. If we have adult leaders in that same boat, I would hope that they would recognize this and get some training and feedback.

"Drop and give me 10" (or whatever) is perfectly fine in boot camp (I am a military brat). It's not okay in the civilian world.

The use of "Love and Logic" methods is awesome. It takes time and practice and a great desire to learn to use them, but they work, without humiliation, without put downs, without yelling or any form of intimidation.

I have had my sons with leaders who used intimidation, and we left that unit. We have

usually had terrific leaders who did not need to use the issue of power with the scouts. If a scout shows that he doesn't want to participate, then what a bummer for him, he doesn't participate at that time.

If timeliness is considered a behavorial problem, and if the scout is driven by an adult to the meeting, then possibly the tardiness is an adult issue (refering to "punishing" late arrival to a troop meeting).

With uniforming, positive consquences for those in full, correct uniform usually works best. It also helps to see if there are other factors involved. Those factors might include fit, comfort and who is setting what example. I recently was having an issue with my youngest (16 year old) son in regards to wearing uniform scout pants (our troop is a "waist up" uniformed unit, our OA Lodge is "full uniform"). I found opportunities where he wanted to be in full uniform (and made sure he saw what a difference it made in that situation), and also purchased a larger size (more comfortable, that 34" waistband was getting a bit snug, but he wouldn't acknowleged that).

If a scouting leader (adult or youth) does use the push-ups as "motivation"/consequence, then the leader performing them at the same time does lighten the "humiliation" factor.

When I think of all the times I have been taught or led (in or out of scouts): I learned best when I wanted to participate fully and successfully. This occurred when humiliation, being singled out, and intimidation/power tactics were NOT used.

A powerful, motivating leader (male or female) inspires me and models the behavior and action that I thereby choose to follow. I have always felt this way, as a youth, and now as an adult.

I wonder what would happen if at Council and District meetings if we members had to drop and perform push-ups for any and all construed lack of results, follow-through, missed meetings, lack of uniform,late arrivals, etc? Or, if giving the wrong answer or not being prepared in class at Philmont (or Wood Badge, or ?) resulted in being handed out push-ups (or something similar). I would not be a member of any of those classes or committees.

We, as adults, set the example. We help the youth leaders set the example. I choose to not set the example of using push-ups as a consequence.

Caveat Emptor:

How sad. Really! Worse is that I am not terrifically surprised. In every group or gathering of humans, there seems to be a percentage of robbers (or worse).

In 2001 (at Jamboree) my older son was actively trading patches. His container of patches was sitting on the picnic table top. He was leaning against the table top, so the container (labeled with name and troop) was just slightly out of his view but very close to his body. While he was distracted by a trading transaction, some one "lifted" the container. He was very hurt by this, especially that it would happen at a national gathering of Boy Scouts. Reality can be the pits.

I won't be shopping on e-bay. Sadly, you are probably right, those items will be sold via e-bay or a similar venue.

Bummer.

This is in reply to the comments about active recruiting at Jamboree.

My older son attended the 2001 Jamboree. He had many conversations with the military perssonel running some events (in spite of missing a few days due to his sub camp being quarantined). At the time I read a comment from the military as being:"What, young men that already wear uniforms, like patches, advancements, and work at being physically fit? Yes, we want them!" My son never recieved phone calls from that source, though. He was 16 then. The local Marine recruiting office "worked" our high school band thoroughly though, and still ocassionally call. That son is now in the USAF as a MP. He also serves as an ASM and accompanied his troop's youth to summer camp.

My point is that our youth are exposed to all sorts of influences from sorts of sources. The military can be a resource for some of our youth. Until they are 18 years old, they cannot "sign on the dotted line." They now also have to take and pass the ASVP, have graduated from HS(some branches will not accept GED),pass a background check and more. Even if the young adults make it that far, something could come up at meps (the medical evaluation before shipping to basic)that would exclude them from service.

Of course, I was a military brat. My dad was a "lifer" in the US Army, my mom was a "Coastie" (Coast Guard). I am certain that my perspective is influenced by that.

This is third hand, as I spoke to a mom whose son is at Jamboree. He explained to her what was happening Wednesday afternoon and evening. Many scouts traveled (walked from their sub camps) a long way to get to the arena where the President was to speak on Wednesday evening. The boys had to pass through metal detectors and were not allowed to bring anything with them into the secure area, not even water bottles. They were told there would be water there. I don't know if her son recieved any water, but our troop seems to have weathered that afternoon/evening without incident. I haven't heard from my son since around midday on Wednesday, so I don't know what his perspective is. It does sound as if there were those in need of water and did not have it at hand.

I understand the need for security, but I would think a scout would be allowed to carry a water bottle into the arena.