resqman

My younger son is a registered Webelos II scout and I am a registered Webelos Den leader. Our Webelos den has been invited to a attend a troop campout. I would like my older son who is not a scout to attend the campout. My wife will be traveling out of the country and will not be able to keep my older son (13).

Assuming the troop allows my older son to attend, are there any BSA policies that we are breaking?

How does one teach Cub Scouts what is important about the flag?

They say the pledge at every opening of every meeting. Do they undertstand that they are really pledging allegiance to a country? Or what allegiance means?

Our Pack retires flags at each of our two yearly campouts, usually on Friday evening. The boys are involved in the ceremony. It is done with dignity and respect. They do not run around, hop and holler. They understand that it is an important ceremony. They learn things like the stripes represent the 13 colonies, and the stars represent the states of the union. We live in one of the 13 colonies. We usually hold back the 11th stripe and ask the boys what it represents. They begin to relate what they have heard in history class with what happens in their daily lifes. They learn that the flag is a symbol and to treat it with respect.

Do the tigers get it the first time? Heck no. Do they begin to understand that flags are important symbols and look at it differently. Sure they do.

Raising and lowering the flag at scouts events is one part of the life cycle of a flag. Retiring a flag is another important part of showing respect for the flag.

Do you take cub age boys to funerals? Do they fully understand that the person is dead? We have to begin to teach them respect.

Our Pack camps twice a year. If they entered at Tigers, they will have camped 6 times by Webelos. They would have an additional 4 Pack campouts during Webelos.

I had a Webelos 1 den campout last fall. They all slept in boy only tents. We held a den meeting where they picked the menu, picked a grub master who bought the food using a budget, and they all cooked the food at the campout. We had a 3 mile hike to meet some requirement. We had some fishing time at the lake.

This was just one over night so you figure we get to campsite by 9:30-10am. Setup tents, cook eat and clean up lunch. Afternoon hike. Cook, eat, and clean up evening meal. Campfire time. Next morning, cook, eat, clean up meal. Break down tents and pack gear. Brief service. The boys wanted to have a game of football with the dads. We left the camp by 10:30-11 Sunday.

We have a Pack campout in 2-3 weeks. I am treating it the same way. They have already chosen their menu and selected a grub master. I expect them to set up their tents as a den and work together as a den all weekend.

My boys are ready to go camping with the Boy Scouts. I may try to squeeze in one more campout this fall but time is tight with Thanksgiving, and Christmas. The AOL is February. I guess we could have a campout in March but the Pack campout is in April where they cross to their respective troops.

Here is the agenda for our Pack campout in a couple of weeks. The campsite is a state park located about 20 minutes from the church. There are 4 campsites with permanent stone fire rings and benches in a ~20 circle around each fire ring. There is a building with showers and toilets within 10 paces of campsites. There is a hose bib for water at each campsite. We have 70 registered boys in the pack.

The Camping & Outings committee currently has at least 6 activities planned for Sat. Plaster cast making, Leaf identification-rubbing & painting, Physical Challenge, Bat House making, PVC pipe marsh mallow gun making and target practice, Knot tying and rope making, presentation by Park Ranger. These will be set up as different stations and the dens will rotate through all the stations through the day.

Some we have done in the past include Matchless fire starting, Map&Compass course, duck nesting box making, First Aid, Fishing Derby, pickup baseball, nature hikes, star gazing, astronomy lessons, and Den Presentations. For the Den Presentations, the dens were notified a month in advance of their topic and were expected to put on a 5-10 minute presentation to the rest of the Pack at the campout. The Tigers made posters or brought examples of their activies, Wolfs made a presentation about Poisonous snakes/spiders, Bears did knife safety, Web 1 made box ovens and cooked cookies, Web 2 I dont remember.

We expect the boys to be active the entire weekend. They are strongly enouraged to particiapate in all activities. You will notice that breakfast and lunch are about 2 hours. This gives people time to cook, eat, and clean up. It also gives them a little bit of free time. But mostly we keep the kids busy every moment.

Typically we have about 40-50 campout Friday nite and about 80-90 campout campout Sat night. These numbers would include family members as well as registered members. Currently we only have 30 families signed up and we have 70 for Friday and 90 for Sat night. I expect the numbers to rise to about 70%-85% participation by the members plus family members following our Pack meeting in two weeks.

Pack 314 Fall Camp out Agenda

Oct. 20-22, 2006 Rollingview State Park

Friday, Oct 20 (campsites 1 and 2 ONLY)

3:00 pm Campsites 1 and 2 available

3-7 pm Arrive, setup personal gear, eat self prepared meal

7:00 pm Park Gate closes

7:05 pm Camp Fire Rules presentation

7:30 pm Pack Campfire Begins

8:30 pm Old flag retirement ceremony

9:30 pm Scary Ghost Story, first call to bed

10:00 pm Lights out

Saturday, Oct 21 (campsites 1, 2, & 3)

7:00 am Reveille

7:15 am Breakfast on your own

8:00 am Park Gate Opens

9:00 am Flag raising

9:30-Noon Pack Wide Activities

12:00 pm Lunch on you own

1:45-3:45 Pack Wide Activities

4:00 pm Ranger Presentation

5:30 pm Flag lowering

6:00 pm Pack Sponsored Evening Meal

7:00 pm Park Gate closes

8:00 pm Pack Campfire Begins

9:00 pm Pack Sponsored Dutch Oven Dessert

9:30 pm Scary Ghost Story, first call to bed

10:00 pm Lights Out

Sunday, Oct 22

7:00 am Reveille

7:15 am Breakfast on your own

8:00 am Park Gate Opens

9:00 am Flag raising

9:30 am Non-Denominational Sunday Service

10:30 am Pack personal gear

11:15 am Police campsite

11:30 am Lower flag and stow Pack 314 gear

1:00 pm Camp out ends

(This message has been edited by resqman)

Reading this forum has gottem me so parinoid I am afraid to touch the scouts at all. There are times I think a pat on the shoulder or a hug would go a long way. A hardy Well done! does have the same direct impact that a physical touch does.

I believe it puts a wall between the leaders and the boys. If we are afraid to touch them, they realize that something must be wrong. That wrong might be misinterpeted as something wrong with them. I am so tired of everything being so PC!

I hate living in fear all the time that I might have somehow overstepped some magical boundry that might offend some hyper-sensitive whinny sue happy busy body. Ugggh!

We recently visited a troop during its Spring New Scout Camping Trip as a visiting Webelos 2.

The troops idea is that they get a bunch of new Scouts each spring. They will have varying amount of camping experience coming from different Packs. They want all the New Scouts to be successful so they plan a New Scout Camping trip. On this particular outing, they had 6 patrols plus the Rocking Chair patrol.

The troop printed up suggested menus planners. There were 3 options for each meal. The Sat evening meal included a dutch oven based dessert. The patrols were given the suggested menu planners a few weeks prior to the campout. The patrols selected meal choices from the suggested menu planner. A boy from each patrol was selected to buy the food. He was given a budget of about $10 per boy per weekend. Money was collected from each boy attending the campout PRIOR to the campout. It is non-refundable because that money is used to buy food. This eliminates collecting from people who said they would go but did not and food was bought to provide for them but they don't want to pay.

At the campout, each patrol was issued a patrol box, a dining fly with poles and ropes, and a collapsable picnic table. Each patrol was told by the SPL where it would set up camp. The first duty of each patrol was to set up their dining fly. Then they were allowed to move the patrol gear and personal gear underneath the dining fly.

Each patrol has a patrol box with a propane stove, group cooking pots and untensils. Boys provide they own personal plate/bowl, cup, and utensils. Cooks are selected ahead of time at the patrol meeting and charts are posted so everyone knows who is to cook or clean each meal.

At each meal, each patrol did all they own cooking and cleanup. The evening meal the Rocking Chair patrol got the charcoal going because they only brought one charcoal chimmny for all 7 patrols. Each patrol was issued a dutch oven Sat evening. The RC patrol made a dutch oven meal and a dutch oven dessert. All the boy patrols made a cobbler or cake in the dutch oven.

Nobody went hungry. There were a few burned pancakes and some spilled scrambled eggs. Each patrol learned the 3 pan method of cleaning and sanitizing cooking gear. This was a dry camp so the Rocking Chair patrol boiled water using a turkey fryer to limit potential scalds and conserve water.

The suggested menu planner had some very good suggestions.

- Instead of sandwich bread, use flour tortillas. They are already squashed so less packing issues. The sandwich can be rolled up and eaten for a change of pace. Also can be used to make breakfast burritos.

- Lunch should be a cold meal. Sandwiches, fruit, veggies and dip, etc. Keeps meal time relatively short and easy allowing time to rest or complete activities.

- Breakfast and evening meal are to be cooked. No poptarts, no hotdogs. Pancakes, scrambled eggs, bacon, sausage, hot chocolate, oatmeal, breakfast burritos, etc. for breakfast. Evening meal includes at least one dutch oven component.

My boy ate with the NSP. He liked all the food and had plenty to eat. The only issue he had was the boy who bought the food felt he was the Food Police and caused some patrol friction when it came to letting the boys eat the food HE bought. The issue of people snacking on things outside of the designated meal time can cause problems. Usually the other patrol members handle this themselves and the next campout, tighter control of the food is maintained to keep people from eating all the "good" stuff before supposed to or before others get a chance.

For just one day I would want the boy on a camping trip.

You rise from your sleeping bag a little groggy with messed up hair. You stumble out to the fire pit from last night and begin the process of starting a fire. Are there any coals left you can coax with some kindleing? The whole ordeal of getting the fire started brings all the people around the cold fire pit together. The rustlings of others getting out of their beds and the beginning of getting a hot breakfast made. Some of the scouts are cooly effiecent and organized while most are a bit impatient and make a few mistakes while getting the stove lite, the pans out, and the various foods blended, heated, and served. That moment while all the still sleeply headed boys sit on the logs around the morning campfire pushing the morning breakfast into their mouths while they stare into the magic of the flames dancing. Soon that food brings them alive and they start chatting. Good natured ribbing and true fellowship are shared during the morning meal.

During the day they all learn new skills, practice old skills, and share experiences with others. A mixture of atheletes, brainiacs, socially aware, and socially stunted. They are scouts, not all the various cliches and sub-cliches from school.

They all belong to at least two teams, the troop and their patrol. They know acceptance and committment on both a small and larger scale. They work together to complete some task, reach some goal, teach or learn skills, to share a day of experiences. No longer strangers but rather a united group with shared adventures.

That time after the evening meal but before the evening campfire starts is a time where many spend some time paired up with new friends. Talking about nothing or that insect over there. The evenings campfire where they get to share in creating skits and songs with thier patrols in a friendly competition. To laugh, sing, enjoy the crisp night air.

And finally when they settle into their sleeping bags with their tentmates. To have those intimate chats before dosing off.

To me that is scouting. A full day of outdoors will show any boy that scouting is adventure, teamwork, and leadership. It is facing new challenges and learning something new, either about themselves or just the activity.

I was speaking with my sister this weekend who is a GS leader. The two programs have very different goals.

I think it is great you want to be involved in your daughters life and bring new experiences to her.

The one nagging thought I have is "If they don't like the BSA program as it is, why don't they start their own instead of trying to change it." That comment or a variation of it is often seen around these forums. I am just wondering how many times it will be said about you and your ideas?

As a BSA member, I see real value in the program and the way it is delivered. When discussing scouting with my sister, her comments and the way she runs her troop are more BSA like than most. Wonder if that has anything to do with the fact our father was an ASM for years before becoming an Explorer Post Advisor for many more years. Or that she spent a summer as a camp counsler at BSA Florida Sea Base. Or that she felt cheated all the times that Dad and brother went on really cool BSA trips and her GS made craft projects.

I would say that many BSA ideas and program techniques can be incorporated into GS successfully. Coming from a male in a female program, you may get lots of resistance.

Best Luck!

This reminds me of my days as a scout 30 years ago. We formed an Explorer Post. Of the twenty two boys who were charter members, 18 were Eagle scouts. Within 3 years, all members were Eagle scouts. We capped membership at 25 and for the first 3-4 years, we never dipped below 20 Eagle scouts.

When we chartered, there was a transition period while everyone learned how to get along with the others. We had pulled from basically 3 different troops, each with its own culture and displine expectations. Shortly we all grew together and formed our own culture.

I remember that everyone was always willing. There was always a desire to excell, to do our best, to reach for the next goal. Working together as such a tight knit group of exceptional people so early in my life was a joy. It took me many years to find another group of people who understood the same values, same ideas, same goals and were so eager to volunteer to accomplish the impossible.

In my case it was an all volunteer technical rescue squad. The chief is an Eagle scout. Those who are drawn to the squad enjoy the challegene, both mental and physical of the demanding training and execution of the highly technical rescues. Every meeting starts off with thirty minutes of knot tying. One of our missions is Search and Rescue (SAR). The core training for SAR is wilderness survival, Map & Compass, and hiking skills. We plan, train, and equip ourselves to Be Prepared for any emergency the public might get themselves into including swiftwater, hazardous materials, trench collapse, confined space, and locations requiring rope rescue. We take courses and complete requirements in front of trainers to earn various certifications for which we get a card and a patch. All members must complete at least a 40 advanced first aid course but most are EMTs or Paramedics. The more experienced members usually become state certified instructors and run classes for the newer members. More experienced members are selected as junior officers in charge of specific groups like the dive team, the SAR team, or the technical team. Sound like another group you might be familar with? www.REDSTeam.com

I struggled for a couple of decades to find such a group. At times I could not understand while the rest of the world did not take charge, lead, follow, or help out the way our Explorer Post did. It sounds as if you have developed just such a group with your Ship. I envy you the joy you must have working with such a group.

Lucky you!

I find information, details, indepth analysis, and a broad range of ideas on the web. I find forums to post my ideas with out fear of being rebuked or thought stupid. Of course I can be rebuked and thought of as stupid but it is by people who I don't know and it does not really count if they think I am stupid. :^)

Often meetings are poorly run. The agenda is too loose or non-existent. Often those in attendence already know all the information being shared. Its those that don't attend that need the information. Its those that don't attend that need to be more involved and help with the tasks as hand.

When I attend meetings that are poorly run, I get frustrated. I may help to redirect the meeting to stay on task if it strays too often or too far. Sometimes it seems those in attendance attended the meeting with no real purpose in mind other than just to meet. While this flys in the face of the article, I meet to accomplish goals, not just be with other people. I socialize with friends but meet to reach a means.

My wife and I do participate in a number of organizations. We volunteer for roles in organizations in which are kids our involved. As I spend hours making, planning, or running errands for these organizations, I wonder what the other parents are doing with their time. I wonder what they think their duty to their children, community, and themselves might be. Do they secretely laugh at home about the poor suckers who do all the work for their kids and community? Or are they so oblious they don't realize what burden they are putting on the rest of the community?

There are times that an organization asks for volunteers for a specific position and we do not volunteer because we are already involved in other volunteer roles. I have a moment of guilt about not volunteering but then justify it by saying to myself that I am already holding several other volunteer positions and cannot give a new role the time and effort it requires.

The Me generation does not seem to be very interested in We. My son's high school requires community service hours to graduate. I am interested to find out more specifics about the requirements and what he will choose to do to meet these requirements. I believe that as a family, we set a good example of community involvment on many fronts. I look forward to watching my kids as adults and see how they give back to the world.

I am wondering about den meetings when a Pack is 6-10. If all 5 ranks are represented in a Pack of 6-10 boys, a den may be as small as 0 or 1 boy. While I understand that the skills are often repeated through the ranks, the repetation usually adds a level of difficulty to the skill. How do you present skills to Tigers and Webelos II at the same time?

A den meeting could be a one-on-one with a Den leader. If there is only one boy in a den, then the more than likely the parent is the den leader. This sounds very close to Lone Scout type of scouting.

While I am sure the boys in such a Pack are getting something from scouting, it seems they may be missing the doing things with boys their own age level part.

I have seen competent pool swimmers struggle in a lake, pond, and ocean waters. The pool is clean and safe with clear water where you can see all the dangers. Lakes, ponds, streams and particularly ocean waters tend to be murky with lots of unknown dangers lurking just beneath the surface. There is icky stuff on the bottom and hideous animals that will bite, sting, or otherwise harm you. The water covers all kinds of broken glass, tree roots, and poisionous water snakes.

It is often the idea of the unknown dangers that scares people out of non-pool water. They cannot see what lurks and they are scared that something might get them. People like that DO change from a swimmer to a non-swimmer because of mental fear.

My son attended a party last week at the local lake. There were nineteen boys and girls age 12-13. My son reported that one girl was afraid there might be sharks in a man-made fresh water lake 300 miles from the coast. Of course my son swam underwater and grabbed her leg from behind just to prove there were no sharks. You can probably imagine the shrieks.

While scout age kids may have book knowledge, they don't always apply it. The fear of the unfamilar and unknown will cause them to not try new experiences. They have been told all their lifes to be careful of the water because they may drown or hurt themselves on unknown dangers. Then we ask them to jump into water over their head that is murky with an icky mud bottom and slimy plants and swim with no concern. 10+ years of adults screaming danger may not be overcome immediately.

Maybe you could hold a nature class explaining about the eco system of lakes to help them understand the system. They would learn about the plants and mud. Mud turtle, water snakes, and old fishing tackle certainly are a real danger when swimming in unchecked swimming areas but the danger need to be properly presented to not scare them out of a safe BSA camp swim area.

Here are a few links to some ideas for arrow of light awards and patch/badge display.

Arrows and Patch Display

http://acornawards.com/Arrow_of_light_products.htm

Arrows and Rank display ideas

http://www.arrow-of-light-awards.com/

http://www.cubitems.com/

http://www.arkie.net/~pow-wow/arrow.htm

http://www.scoutarrows.com/

http://www.aaastamp.com/scouts/plaques.html

http://www.aaastamp.com/scouts/arrows.html

http://www.gilanet.com/amerabo/light.htm

http://members.aol.com/vincesarrows/Page1.htm

http://www.thescoutimage.com/index.html

Career markings

http://www.dacbsa.org/Resources-DACWorkshop/Career%20Arrows.pdf

Patch Display Only

http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?ctlg=05NDC&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=GIFTS&C3=FRAMES&C4=&LV=3&item=17666

30 years ago I went as Provisional camper. I had already attended that same BSA camp at least one time. One summer I went a week with my troop and two weeks as provisonal. I had a blast. The SM was a college grad Eagle and very "Scouty".

I went to get another Mile Swim award and earn a couple more merit badges. My parents said at the time they could not feed me at home for the same cost as camp. The provisional camp site was the furtherest from all activities so it gave me lots of opportunity to roam over the large grounds. Lots of personal freedom. I relished it.

I can see where a shy scout with limited confidence could feel overlooked. Provisional is going to require more personal drive to ensure you get off to classes and back on time because it is more difficult for the provisional SM to know each boys weak and strong points.

My den is a Webelos II den. We went on our first Den campout the last weekend of March. One dad for each boy in the den. The campsite had running water and a stinky latrine (as if there are any other kind) but otherwise nothing but trees as far as one could see. No other people or distractions.

The den meeting prior to the campout we gave the boys two tasks, choose your menu and a patrol name in 15 minutes. The adults left the room and let them plan and plot. The designated boy leader came to the adults after 10 minutes and said no one was listening to him. The asst DL strolled in and asked them to cooperate and gave them 5 more minutes. They boys planned a very tasty balanced menu and chose a patrol name.

During the campout, we asked that they do all the work. Set up their own tents, sleep with boys not parents, prep, cook and clean the meals, start the fire, etc. They had a hand in what they were doing, not just having a campout handed to them. There was still a lot of encouraging by the adults but the boys did 75% of all tasks.

A month later I took my son as a vistor on a Boy Scout campout. The boys litterally did everything. The adults sat in folding chairs and drank coffee. 2/3's of the boys on the outing had crossed over just a month or two before. What I saw made me realize that the biggest difference was the boys were truely doing everything. The SPL gave them the basic marching orders of unpack the trailer and set up campsites. The boys took if from there. There was no adult tweaking or suggestions. If the tent was on a hill, so be it. Lessons were learned the old way, thru trial and error.

I am planning on making my Webelos II more involved in their activities. They all need to work together as a team better. I can see where they have the outdoors skills and enthuisasm but need a less apron strings and more chances to fail or succeed on their own to build confidence.

What I saw was not so much the outdoors or camping skills, but the willingness and practice of working as a team without constant adult supervison and urging to complete tasks.

Join Boy Scouts in '72. I remember spending the night in a canvas pup tent with no floor a few times. Used military surplus ponchos snapped together a couple of times. Troop did not have tents. Boys bought their own and nylon was coming on the market around then. For Philmont we had a tent that had purple floor pan, orange sides and yellow rain fly. My dad said he got it on say because no one wanted the colors. The rain fly could be set seperate from the tent and we just used the rain fly for most of Philmont due to great weather.

I too am from the day when the uniform was sold without a collar. Made it very easy and comfy to wear a neckerchief. The drawback is that you MUST wear a neckerchief because the shirt is so designed.

I am one of the few that enjoy wearing a necktie. If you buy a shirt that is the correct size for your body, meaning when you gain weight you buy a larger size shirt instead of just squeezing your neck into a too small shirt, neckties are not uncomfortable.

My son is hot natured, as am I, and he complains of wearing a neckerchief which is not optional as a Cub Scout. I started carving neckercheif slides to give him some incentive to wear his neckerchief. The question is now which slide, instead of arguing about wearing it at all.

The neckerchief does add a flair to the uniform and seeing an entire troop in Nerckers shows very well. I agree that the current neckerchiefs are fashion and not functional. I do vaguely remember having to fold the neckerchief and then rolling it. The trouble was the two points never seemed to line up and always looked abit askew. I do remember tieing many different first aid devices with a neckerchief.

My boy is a Webelos II and we are shopping troops. Just so happened that a local troop was holding their annual New Scout Outing campout this month. One of the leaders is a personal friend and his youngest just crossed over from Cubs to Boy Scouts this spring. I asked if we could "try before we buy" by attending this campout as a guest.

This troop holds an annual New Scout Outing in late Spring. It is a flop and drop style campout. The goal for the weekend is to present the opportunity for all the New Scouts to complete as many of the outdoor requirements up through 1st class. Friday evening they selected campsites, setup dining fly, chuck box, and table. They erected tents, built a campfire and retired some flags. Sat morning they prepared and cleaned up their own meals. The morning offered an axe yard and knife area with older scouts instructing for Whittln chip and Totn chip. Another older scout held a fire building session. Some more older boys had a lashing area with pre-cut poles and lots of binders twine. Another scout offered First Aid. In the afternoon, another older boy offered a 5 point, 1 mile orientation course. Two adults offered to identify 10 plants and recommended New Scouts open their eyes to animal activity. Additionally, determining height as well as general direction via watch and sun were offered by adults. Sat lunch was no cook sandwhich stuff prepared by the NS. Evening meal was required to be cooked and the troop had suggested 3 menu plans at previous troop meetings that provided a balanced meal and a cooked dessert. Dutch Ovens were provided for the 4 cobblers and two cakes that were made by the NS.

Sun morning, following a no cook breakfast, a flag raising ceremony was held. The NS were offered a 5 mile hike with an opportunity to use a compass to identify headings, animal signs were encouraged to be discovered and during breaks, plants were queried. The most older scouts stayed behind to breakdown and pack common gear. Upon return the New Scouts had to pack personal gear, complete break down of patrol areas and move all equipment to the trailer for packing

At the closing remarks after packing up, the Scout master declared there were no more New Scouts in the troop, all were considered equal from that point forward.

On the drive home, I asked the 3 older scouts in my vehicle what they normally do on campouts. They explained they have themes for most campouts that keep them busy. Based on the responses from the adults this past weekend, the adults would be willing to review and sign off tasks for individual scouts at other campouts.

My Webelos II son asked if we could practice lashing in the backyard on the drive home. Tomorrows task is to pickup a spool of binders twine for the house.

We had a similar situation. We had a mixed bag of Webelos neckerchiefs, some old style, some new style. They were already paid for and available.

We gave out the mismatching neckerchiefs. Nobody noticed. I have kids who wear the neckercheifs inside out so that no emblem shows.

If you have enough for a matched den, go for it. It can be one more way to build Den pride.

My sister does this for family camping. She puts chicken in a crock pot with taco seasoning. She lets it cook a couple of hours until it can be pulled easily. She puts the chicken a container. All of this is at home before the campout.

At the campout she puts out some flour tortillas and the container of pulled taco chicken. When the kids are hunger, they add a portion of chiken to the tortilla, shreded cheese, roll up and eat.

I like to add some onions when I am crock potting the chicken. You could also add green peppers.

Alternately you could put the chicken, cheese, onion, and pepper on half the tortilla. Fold over and lightly grill forming a quesidilla. Very tasty.

At our Den campout last weekend, we brought a bag of 20 frozen chicken wings. Grilled them until juices ran clear. Bathed them in BBQ sause and put back on grill long enough to heat sause but not burn the sugar. They were gone quickly.

Our county school system just implemented a no flyer rule. BSA has in the past sent out flyers twice a year in the elementary schools, spring and fall roundups. It lists all the Packs in the county, meeting locations, and contact point. The families then decide which Pack is best for them.

Our COuncil is scrambling to find a way to annouce the round ups to their target audience. Fortunately the principal of my son's school is an Eagle along with his 2 sons. He said he could not put our Packs announcement flyer in the backpacks due to the new ruling BUT could make a mention in the Principal's Newsletter for the next 2 weeks.

The council is trying to take advantage of a loophole that indicates that if the PTA supports the flyer, then the PTA can request to allow the flyer. That is still under investigation so don't know the results.

This will be our first roundup without school annnouncements. We are interested in the results. Between the spring and fall roundup, we usually pick up around 15-20 boys to keep our total boy membership around 50-60. As a pack we have allowed the council to advertise globably and we have attracted enough to keep our numbers fairly constant. If that advertising goes away, we will have to start spending money that otherwise would have provided program.

My son and I started as Wolfs 3 yrs ago. Never had a snack at a den meeting or Pack meeting except...

My wife wanted to try a new recipie one evening. The den meeting was at my home. The boys and parents got to try out the new recipie. The Pack holds an ice cream social once a year as a Pack meeting. The point of the meeting is eating ice cream.

Both the den and pack meetings are held from 6:30-8pm

"the fairly difficult directions of patch placement"

Can you help me understand what is difficult about the placement of the patches?

BSA provides lots of documentation on badge placement. There is a diagram in the cover of every scout handbook, along with additional diagrams and explantations in the text, along with inspection sheets delineating the placement.

Badges are of very specific shapes and sizes and it is difficult to mistakenly confuse a troop number with a council stripe for example. I just don't see where it is all that difficult.

Can you help me to better understand where the confusion comes from?

Under 10 miles.

We usually have 2-4 from our Pack attend. I have not attended over the last 3 years. I started attending recently in order to fulfill my leader knot requirement. I can see where attending earlier in my leader career would have helped my den and Pack.