RememberSchiff

getting outdoors broadened their horizons

Well hard to argue with you there

4-H predates the STEM acronym with their own Science, Engineering, and Technology (SET) programs in association with their respective state university. Not uncommon to see a 4-H club in a FIRST or NASA robotics competition at all levels.

Other former scout nerds: Bill Nye (the Science Guy), Steven Spielberg, Bill Gates.

This announcement seems like vaporware.

Another $0.02

Yeh, reading the links posted and the stated long lead times to unroll these awards (two years?), I cannot get excited. But let me say National #$%@$!^ better FINALLY release the requirements for Robotics merit badge next week (National Robotics Week) as promised and long overdue!

It would be great if there were MBC's registered and informed in preparation of this announcement but that is another story. Reminds me of what happened last year with those four historic merit badges...

My $0.02

Stay home? Isn't the concept of a fixed structure building contrary to Leave No Trace?

Back in the day, Scouting was less uniform, yet more like minded about being respectful of others. We could have camporees and summer camps where we all more or less got along without some individual or group making a big issue about someone doing something different. We still do campfires with local firewood (???? very odd to do otherwise???), LNTer's can join us in the light or they can stay in the darkness.

If the activity is safe, start thinking about saying NO to those that say No To Everything Outdoors, Scouting, or Fun. And if that doesn't work, do the activity outside of scouting.

My $0.02

Thanks for your follow-up and involvement. Should be an interesting Eagle Board of Review, hope the successful turnaround continues.

Tried and failed to recruit two more MBC last night. One look at that over-the-top background check on the Adult volunteer application killed all hope.

Anyway, I had this idea for the Council level Quality Whatever-it-is-called-this-year Award.

"Council must have at least two qualified MBC's, not otherwise serving as adult leaders, for each elective merit badges offered by the BSA." Maybe have area exceptions for certain badges, but something like that. While Council is making the rounds for business donations, I would like them to recruit some outside talent for MBC's.

My $0.02

Springrobin,

Welcome to the forum.

Why wasn't this matter handled by your SM and PLC instead of your Troop Committee?

Years from now when most of us are long gone, your son will look at his sash and say to his son, "Oh this is Bugling Merit Badge, they don't have that anymore with txt msg...I earned that from your great grandfather, he brought out a bugle that must have been older..." Family scouting heritage, seems to be forgotten when Adult Association method is discussed these days.

Moderation, there's nothing wrong with earning some merit badges from competent, scouting-involved relatives. Denying a scout and his grandpa the opportunity to work together to earn Bugling merit badge is just short-sighted. Here's a hint: Think how we can keep the few merit badge counselors that we have. Need another hint: Think how we can lose the few merit badge counselors that we have.

Moderation, family scouting heritage, and adult association. Get Scoutmaster approval and go for it.

My $0.02 from someone who EARNED Marksmanship merit badge from his dad, Mr. Offhand.

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Sort of the idiot light flashing on the dashboard. Don't ignore it, there's a problem.

If I was teaching the Den Chief course, I would have failed him (no certificate) and contacted his SM ASAP in hopes that a scoutmaster conference would quickly follow. That scout doesn't appear ready for a POR (especially not Den Chief) so get him help, don't ignore the problem or make it worse.

Now the Training Chair/Committee would, of course, have my back on this and make an additional call to SM asking why he recommended this scout to be a den chief and take this (my) course. (Maybe it would make that SM think before recommending just anybody for NYLT...sigh)

And then with this feedback, an interesting and educational SC would follow where the Scout Oath and Law was reviewed, what was going on in his life, his future in scouting,... BTW, that dead cats and death stuff is very similar to comments made by said Eagle scout who is now on trial. He became a lost soul (goth?) sometime senior year or after. DAMN SCARY.

Old school responsibility, not buck passing.

My $0.01

We have to be responsible adults and teach the boys the same. No end-arounds, you can start over but...but, your past record goes along with you in school and the community.

In passing his Troopmaster records, I would also pass along a summary of that BOR, his expulsion from the troop and Council's promised actions. Your CO may also be interested in contacting the new CO. Forewarned is forearmed.

Council should have explained, in writing, to your troop their decision change as I would be shocked to see this boy again in a scout uniform at another scout activity. What message would that tell my scouts? Whatever you do, you can beat the system? And then if he gets Eagle on top of it? Where's the discipline? Does anything go now? I am hard pressed to recall a tough decision where Council did not eventually cave to parental pressure.

I would also send a formal letter to Council and your district Advancement (Eagle Board) expressing your concerns regarding his return to scouting and express path to Eagle. If there is a EBOR, you should have input.

Sorry to hear that you are in this situation. They say SM's are the gatekeepers in Scouting, but it probably more correct to say they are the only gatekeepers in Scouting.

My $0.02

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Thanks BA, that was very helpful. Hopefully we can try dry ice this summer. Congratulations on using the patrol method.

Another $0.02

So is the "yellow cake mix" gluten free? Are there nuts in the brownie mix?

Each year, we bring more and more of our own food into our "patrol method" camp. We are not allowed to store in the camp commissary so we store in our own trailer. Replacing ice for refrigeration is a pain, keep meaning to try dry ice. We have talked to the camp about opting out of this commissary service. No dice. Bulk buying saves money but does not teach scouts how to buy food and save money.

I can understand a "standard menu" for new scouts and leaders, but I have seen experienced patrols (including NYLT, don't get me started) just go for the easy "standard menu". Not patrol cooking in my opinion, so not patrol method.

My $0.02

It puzzles me that patrol method camps order food at all.

I would think it would be easier all around for patrols to buy and bring their own food based on their own requirements and the camp commissary would simply provide dry storage and refrigeration storage with space limits set and known in advance.

This would be

1. Patrol Method cooking as intended - the boys plan, buy, manage their food and not opt out with the camp Standard Menu.

2. Food restrictions and preferences are handled by patrol, subject to SPL approval.

My $0.02

BP, I like your idea. Maybe add some more conditions

- expeditions cannot be in a previously explored area.

- adults can only assist in transportation

- a "challenge" to acquire a new skill for this expedition or to accomplish a task specified by Review Board with existing scout skills.

or maybe this spin

FC - First Aid Merit Badge

Star - WFA and add solo 48hr campout (must be a 1/2 mile away from anybody) with five mile hike in and out.

Life - community service project (I too have seen too many dumbed down Eagle projects)

Eagle - Solo patrol expedition, planned and executed by Eagle candidate.

This kills the adventure in Scouting. Welcome to the next 100 years, Sc-outing where kids are Cub Scouts from age 5 to 21.

Another $0.02

Feedback time. Print it out. Circle and write REJECTED over it. Mail it back to National.

My $0.02

Knothead:

Counseling merit badges as a fundraiser (presumably Council approved)? Making it easy and making a buck at the same time?

I can see covering facility rental and supply expenses but making a profit. Is it just me who thinks this is wrong?

Depressing $0.02

"Forgive me my nonsense as I also forgive the nonsense of those who think they talk sense."

My $0.02 borrowed from Robert Frost

Some good news from and for Wisconsin and Scouting

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/116515038.html

Good story and photo, all Eagles should look so fit. Well done, cellphone and all.

Not to worry, it doesn't ring much. Maybe because council does not publish and distribute the list, maybe because I will not do merit badge universities, maybe because a SM directs scouts elsewhere, maybe the boys expect an express pass, maybe they expect a real subject expert (I do my best).

It's been years, maybe more than 10, since I have successfully recruited someone outside of scouting to be a MB counselor. And Council dropped him the following year as he "forgot" to renew, so he took the hint as this was BSA's gracious way of thanking him for his service. Seeyalater.

Some more points:

About a dozen years ago, there were 8 or more mbc at the local high school. Now ZERO, "I'd like too...but no, this is headache"

Why should teachers, policemen, nurses, fire chiefs...who regularly teach young people in community outreach, are parents themselves, been fingerprinted, background-checked already go through all that again. And please, their time is money, don't solicit them for FOS!

Compare the red-tape: BS MB counselor to Venture consultant

The challenge is not for me or another scouter to sign up to counsel a dozen more merit badges, that is neither a challenge nor a solution. The real challenge is to recruit another dozen new, outside experts as counselors. To do that, the merit badge process needs to be fixed.

Another $0.01(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

That's the status quo - inbreeding with often less-qualified scouters (like me ) volunteering outside their expert level just because outside experts are turned off by the current process of becoming mb counselors.

The challenge is to fix the broken merit badge process with all its hassle and nonsense.

BTW, I am a mb counselor for 4 or is it 7, maybe 9 who knows but me who sends the paperwork to council, which never publishes the list, which doesn't matter as the SM will likely only give a scout the name of a counselor in his unit and not the name of a counselor just down the street...and on it goes.

Back in the day, all that was required was expertise and an interest in teaching kids - one sheet of paper with name, address, phone, Merit badge, experience, references. No SS, no YP, no yearly renewal, no dummy course about being a mb counselor, no joining the BSA, no SM filtering as the approved counselor list was there for all scouts to read. You taught scouts a little, developed some skills, had some fun.

Go back to that.

Buttta, buttta no YP. Yep optional, the MB counselor provides the expertise and we or parents go along to provide the YP (got to drive them anyway). That is one reason parents like the current MB colleges, there is perceived safety in numbers at those school/church venues.

KISMIF and the outside experts will return.

My $0.01

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My thoughts...

Youth led = youth do the planning, make decisions

Youth run = youth execute the plan, change decisions (Plan B)

Execution is the harder part.

My $0.02

So are you saying you want the Tour Plan to remind you when to execute on H/W issues for each tour?

More than remind, state Yes or No whether H/W requirements apply for tour. Makes it clear who can participate. Whether they will abide is another matter.

How would you set it up so that it would be clear to all using it?

That is already stated in Form C. Is it clear there?

But honestly, I don't see anyone out in the field checking a participant's weight for their unit-planned high adventure trips. I have never seen a unit check driver's licenses or auto-insurance either.

My $0.01

No coordination with new Tour Planning Worksheet, i.e., on that worksheet there is no consideration of time to reach emergency vehicle access roadways or even a definitive statement that the weight chart applies for planned tour. Easy fix for the latter, under "Type of trip" add "Health & Medical weight restrictions apply to ALL participants."

Require ALL scout camps to state upfront, in writing, whether weight restrictions apply to their camp in general or their programs selectively. Do it NOW.

No mention of Jamboree or Summit.

Expect more updates.

My $0.02

Production. Yes, I fear we are heading in that direction, i.e., Cub Scouts who 'go through the program graduate' with the highest award in Cub Scouting. Similarly, Bob Scouts who 'go through the program graduate' with Eagle. The failed public school model. Little earned, little learned but get them through the program with a water-down diploma.

My $0.02(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Being unprepared for conditions either in equipment ($$$) or experience is a valid reason for cancellation. Knowing that and making the call takes leadership experience which is what we are here to develop.

In my experience, the first safety concern that cancels a winter trip is driving. Ice storms cause dangerous driving, down branches and trees. High winds can blow down trees and branches as well.

Avoid the fool who brags 'We go no matter the weather'.

My $0.02