Quixote

The troop recently had a bicycle campout in the Wharton State Forest (i didn't attend).

Leading up to the event, the leaders that were going were concerned with the logistics because the boys couldn't take all the necessary gear on the bikes, the troop trailer was hauled down. This necessitated having someone drive to the camping spot sat. morning and then have them picked back up and brought back to the start of the trail so they could be with the boys for the ride.

My response to the problem was - take the gear to the campsite and WAIT for the boys to ride to you (1 eagle scout, 3 Life scouts, 2 Star scouts, 4 first class scouts and 2-3 scouts). The response to my suggestion was "YOU CAN'T LET THE BOYS RIDE THE TRAIL BY THEMSELVES". We're talking about a 10-15 mile bicycle ride in a state forest in NJ - with 12-13 scouts - is this not something the boys can't be trusted to accomplish on their own without adult supervision???

Thoughts?

I've been discussing our Troop Meeting agenda's with the SPL and have tried to encourage him to use the models that are in his training materials (as well as in the SM handbook).

Currently, he is just typing the agenda for the next 3-4 months' activities and passes it out and then reads it to the troop while everyone critiques (including the parents in the back of the room!) the activity or discusses whether they can go.

I've suggested that he include the calander of events on his agenda, but NOT to discuss them at the Troop meeting, and that would enable him to schedule time for the patrols to meet (we have 3 patrols and only 1 has had 1 meeting outside the troop meeting since March and there have been NO patrol outings at all in that time).

My question for those troops that have a strong patrol method built up, could you give examples of the troop meeting agenda so i could encourage him with some more examples of proven work?

Thanks.

Troop meetings are not the place for any merit badge activities unless they fall into the skills instruction part of the meeting (imo).

Thanks. Doh......back at you.

I'm starting with at least one SA, but will be tring to recruit more.

Well, at the committee meeting last night, the SM had a new item on his report which read : NEW SCOUTMASTER - it's time.....

I've gone and volunteered again.....

My first windmill will be getting the committee trained.

Windmill #2 is the Patrol Method

Please say a prayer for the boys...and a little one for me

Satan is selling snowcones folks....Rooster, Bob White, NJ, Myself, etc. agree....

I just saw this post and am shocked that any group of adults responsible for the safe wellbeing of minors would not see the danger signs displayed by this boys' actions.

Another question comes to mind - of the adults that were in the camp, how many were properly trained? Take out the G2SS (you've got one at camp, right?) and read it to the other adults - that's why it's there.

YIS

Quixote

Eureka timberline here as well - i have one i still use that's over 20 years old - still good as new.

Firstpusk,

Point taken and my appologies - after some reading it appears that you are correct concerning the "flat earth theory". However, my point is still valid concerning how scientific theories are constantly changing to fit new data points.

There are 7 planets, no, 9, no, more like 11 - ok, what's the definition of a planet? The sun revolves around the earth, no, it's the other way - See what i mean?

Can you not concede that scientific theories that are accepted as FACT are often times adjusted and in some cases discarded because of additional "discoveries"?

Q

firstpusk,

Was not my intent to start throwing rocks - my response was relative to your misrepresenting my statment regarding scientific proof of theories that are eventually either discredited or at least modified to fit new data points.

YIS

Quixote

Firstpusk,

My point, which you obviously didn't get was that man has long tried to explain his universe and the "absolutes" he discovers keep getting changed as he discovers more "absolutes". Evolution in action i guess.

As for wanting Darwin to be discredited, i don't see where in my post you got that from - it really doesn't matter to me on what side of the line he ends up being because i'm secure in my faith.

YIS

Quixote

I realize i'm late to the party, but didn't "modern science" once hold the theory that the earth was flat and it was actually proven to be more spherical? Scientific theories are great until they are changed with new and improved science. And didn't the universe revolve around the earth, then the sun, then...

Would be interesting to know what scientists will be saying 1000 years from now about darwins theory of evolution - will it be on the flat earth side of the line or the Newton side? I dare say that Christians will still believe that God created man (not sure how or what time line, but I have faith that He did).

Sounds like none of the ASM's or the SM is trained as well - they should know that they can't keep a parent from attending a meeting, let alone a registered leader.

I hope you get some satisfaction from these people, but in the end, it sounds like the rest of the troop is in agreement with the SM.

Have you ever thought of seeing if the COR want's to retire for a while and have the CO appoint you as the COR - that would be very interesting....

Good luck - I think i'd be looking for a new troop.

Mike,

I want to thank you for the link - I have had some very strange medical problems over the last several years (involving asthma, upper resp. infections and arthritis) and one of the doctors i went to mentioned clamidia, but since i only associated it with an STD, it was quickly ruled out. I didn't know there were other types of clamidia that were spread like the flu.

Thanks again - i'm forwarding to my doctor to review.

YIS

Quixote

btps - I agree - it was a BSA run camp and it was required - my point was that the adult who was told in February and given the written forms which stated that a physical was needed didn't get it done and then wanted to blame it on others not informing him.

As for the swimmer test, we arranged for all new scouts and whoever else (parents, siblings, etc.) to use a pool on two seperate evenings with life guards provided to pass the swimmer test. All new scouts and MOST new scout parents came and passed (even the one who didn't understand the physical for summer camp requirement), but one other set of parents didn't - their loss.

Quixote

God made man, not the other way around.

Being exposed to additional training is never bad in my opinion - i think this should be covered in Youth Protection. Just raising the awareness is often enough to cause someone to ask questions that could lead to a young person to come clean (literally and figuratively).

YIS

Quixote

Just adding my voice to the chorus - I would wxpect our committee and COR to suspend the boy for 6 months with the following stipulations on re-entering the troop:

1. A letter to the committee (written by the boy) stating WHY he wants to be in scouting

2. A SM Conference with the boy and his parent to assess the attitude of the boy.

Our troop policy lays this out (it was used last year apparently for one of the boys that is now trying to get back into the troop - he's a life scout and has really changed from the experience).

Good Luck

YIS

Quixote

Our troop doesn't have a problem with parents coming as long as there aren't space problems such as numbers of canoes, etc.

I'm not sure if this event was a Troop or Pack event - sounds like a Pack event in which case, each kid must have had a parent present.

As far as the 19 year old that was dropped off by his mom, I would have asked him to either be responsible or to leave - 19=legal adult and shouldn't be in a tent with a scout unless they're family members.

As for the Horned Toad incident, I would have reported it to the ranger - a protected species is just that - protected. (I'm from Texas as well and appreciate their status - used to be all over the place, but with the infusion of the fire ant, their numbers have declined because the red ant (their primary food) is getting scarce - welcome to the environmental science merit badge section of the thread:))

Good luck on the training - short of bugging your council, the only other thing i can think of is go to an adjacent council and check their availability.

HTH

Quixote

One of the other threads reminded me of some issues we recently had in our Troop relating to Adults (leaders and parents) not listening to instructions and I was wondering if it is widespread and how better to deal with the issue:

To illustrate:

My son joined his troop in March after crossing over from Webelos - at a meeting in February (attended by all new parents) the SM stated that ALL adults must have a class 3 medical that includes a physical each year (troop policy vs. BSA policy of >40).

One of our new ASM's who was at the meeting in Feb. tried to go to camp without having his physical done and was angry at the other adults for not reminding him before the fact (even though he was at the meeting in February and it was in writing on the Summer Camp paperwork given to the adults to review and sign.)

Another case - an adult who was at one of the planning meetings for our recent canoe trip where the need for swimmer classification for ALL participants was discussed, was upset because he wasn't allowed to go on the trip with his new scout because he wasn't swimmer tested (never mind the fact that he didn't even SIGN UP)- which caused him to pull his son from the trip which screwed up the float plan which caused great angst among the scouts and the SM (second no-show by this scouter because of parental "lack of understanding")

I pointed out to the ASM in the first case when he called me the morning the boys were supposed to go to camp that "yes, I had gotten my physical (in April as a matter of fact) and why hadn't he since they had stated that at the February meeting?"

I just had a sit-down with the new scouot parent and clued them in on the angst they were causing in the troop because of their pulling their boy out at the last minute from trips and how it had upset the plans of the boys - the response was "well, we were concerned that you (me) weren't going and we don't know the rest of the leaders that well (the other ASM was the CUBMASTER last year!) and besides, he wanted to go to the baseball game with us."

Thanks for letting me vent - any suggestions are welcome....

Quixote

Acco,

you said you were #4 on your list For those who believe man created God

I'm confused because you had earlier posted that you were a Christian - how do you reconcile this?

my answer is most definately God first, Family second and Country thrid.

Quixote(This message has been edited by Quixote)

Seems like there is a broad range of opinion - the handbook clearly spells out that the Eagle service project cannot benefit scouting, so my question is does this or should this apply to the Life and Star rank requirements.

Specifically, would you count his volunteering to be a counselor at a Cub Scout Day Camp?

Quixote

In the Boy Scout Handbook, the requirement of x hours service project doesn't give guidelines, but in the Eagle Section it does.

My question is how are you interpreting this for 1st class, Star and Life since it just says a service project approved by the SM?

I'm thinking that helping in your church homeless meals program should count, working on a habitat for humanity house should count, helping at vacation bible school? helping at cub day camp? volunteering for a service project at summer camp?

What does your troop allow for service hours?

Thanks

Quixote

I agree with Mike on this - the boys should lose their JASM until they prove they can be more mature and responsible.

(I remember using aresol cans as torches though not at scouts - amazing how stupid you can be when you're young and invincible)

The discipline needs to be as soon as possible as well. This is a great opportunity for the young scouts to see that even their scouting idols (older boys) aren't immune to discipline and learning.

Quixote

Rooster,

Do you think this is one of the reasons that current scouts think the Swimming Merit badge is so hard? Quality of Instructors / Counselors?

Quixote