Pint

What exactly is festivus??

for some reason the [url=http:// didnt work, and this message board wont let me edit it, although the link does work.

Becasue Im a bit tight for webspace, I may have to remove the image at some point. If you want to keep it, right click in the image and select save as.

for some reasoin the [url=http:// didnt work, and this message board wont let me edit it, although the link does work.

Becasue Im a bit tight for webspace, I may have to remove the image at some point. If you want to keep it, right click in the image and select save as.

Heres a little something i picked up on a training course (UK) titled

"Why I am a Leader"

Im just about to set off to an international Scout and guide camp at chatsworth (UK): http://www.peak2005.org.uk

Weve got a few Scouts going, and a few leaders, with some of us volunteering for the Camp staff ( Fire team/health and safety teams)

some of the Scout and guide groups, from overseas who are camping at Peak are:

Ceedarburg GS USA

Troop 853 USA

Troop 303 USA

Pony Express USA

Troop 830 BSA USA

Troop 285 USA

St Peters Cathedral USA

25 Napean Canada

Nara GS Japan

Lonneberga Sweden

Trolhatten Sweden

Hamre Scoutkar Sweden

Timmersdala Sweden

Wuppertal Germany

Wuppertal Germany

Mandel de Nobrega Brazil

Donnycarney Ireland

Kajiaod Hill Kenya

and posibly some Scout/Guides from:

Nigeria - Ghana - Japan - Bermuda - Jordan - Eygpt - Tanzania - Uganda - Russia -

Ireland - Germany - Rwanda

& St Lucia

Im off now, but i will post back in about a week or so.

If anyones interested, the next Peak camp will be in 2010.

At 18 He might be able to join the Staff, at 18 most staff jobs that are remaining to be filled should be open.

for a rough idea theres a list here:

http://www.eurojam.org/english/ist/jobs.php

and a pdf of jobs that are available at the Eurojam camp here (pdf):

http://www.scouting2007.org/english/get.php?DocNO=169

Working on a Staff team at an international camp is a fantastic expeirience, some of the things that may be useful if aplying for a staff team are first Aid qualifications/knowledge, and any other qualifications that may be specific to an activity ( ie rock climbing/kayaking etc)

as well as any specific trade knowledge ( plumbing electrics etc) .

also If hese not allowed to travel as part of your group for any age reason (ie too old for a Scout, too young for a leader) he may be able to travel to the site independantly.

Ive been looking into somethiong along the lines of a set of basic rules which each parent and scout will get, it will probably be based around the Scout law, which in the Uk is :

1. A Scout is to be trusted.

2. A Scout is loyal.

3. A Scout is friendly and considerate.

4. A Scout belongs to the worldwide family of Scouts.

5. A Scout has courage in all difficulties.

6. A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property.

7. A Scout has self-respect and respect for others.

and it will also have bits taken from this webpage

http://www.14thek-scouts.org.uk/Behaviour%20Code.htm

unfortunaly there are a small amount of Scouts (roughly 3 or 4) in the group who have the ability to disrupt ( almost) the whole group, and then some others who only come because their parents make them/see it as a cheap childminding service.

One discusion with a scout who didnt want to be there, and was causing a few problems went along the lines of

"do you enjoy scouts?"

(scout)"not realy"

then after going thorough a few options and talking a bit more we got this bit of info

"I have to come, because my mums at work, and my dads in the pub all night"

good question

I usualy take a Radio/Cd player, an MP3 player, Mobile (cell) phone and a few other things, if they get damaged then thats my own problem

but thats as a leader on a camp.

there is no banned list for the scout troop im involved with, but generaly items that are discouraged are those that: have a screen, speakers, headphones, or run off batteries.( with the exception of a torch, and some spare batteries)

there is the obvious problem that the Scouts/cubs/whatever may break damage or loose their expensive electronic equipment.

mobile (cell) phones can cause problems with the scouts texting each other late at night, messing around with ringtones etc, phoning home for some unnesecary reasons, at all the campsites i have been to there have been pay phone facilities, and if its a real emergency then the parents can contact the leaders, and the leaders can contact the parents.

MP3 players these are easily broken and csome are quite expensive, the last thing you want is a parent complaining that its your fault that their little darling has broken his/her new Ipod and its your fault.

Radios and other things with loud speakers:

these can cause a noise problem, especialy if they are aloud them in their own tents, also if theres more than one radio on camp, that can cause a few arguments on who gets to hear what.

GPs has its uses, but what happens when the batteries run out, or theres some problem with it

and all your left with is a basic disc thing with a needle inside, which has the letters N, E, S, W and some numbers on the outside of the disc, and a bit of paper that has place names on it as well as some other features.

In the UK, some Scout Groups have been co-ed for some time now, although some groups can still be single sex if they want to be, for now.

However from the start of next year, all Scout groups will have to go Co-ed weather they like it or not, any leader refusing to take girls will no longer be welcome ( from what i understand) in Scouting in the UK.

If your in the UK at a Scouting Event, you will proabbaly see some female scouts

There is a separate provision in the UK for Girls, called Girl Guides, Girls have traditionaly gone into Guides, and boys have traditionaly gone into Scouts, Guides and scouts offer different programs, so a girl that doesnt like guides, might join Scouts.

the Name Boy Scouts was shortened, just to Scouts quite a few years ago.

The Scout Group tha I'm involved with is technicly co-ed, and technily fully in line with the Equal oportunities policy of the UK Scout assosiation.

However as yet we have no Girls in the Beavers, Cubs, or Scout sections.

As for the practicalites of 'Girls in Scouts' on camps

if theres one girl and three boys going on a small camp, would you put one girl in a tent on her own, or in with the rest of the boys?

Scouting in the UK is comming into line with standard 'Equal oportunites'policys that exist in other organisations ( ie equal rights)

we can no discriminate against young people, or adult volunteers on grounds of:

Sex ( male/female)

Sexual prefernces (normal/gay/lesbian/other)

Age ( ie for adult volunteers - as long as they are physicly and mentaly abale to do the job)

Race ( obviously)

Financial means

Relegion ( The UK scout asociation is not a relegious organisation, however it is a youth organisation with a relegious policy, however if you do not have a basic spiritual beleif in something or things, you can not become a leader.)

Political Beleifs ( except for extremist political veiws/beleifs that clash with the Scout promise and law, and the equal oportunites policy)

this ACLU seem to cause a bit of trouble, what exactly is the ACLU, and why are they a threat to scouting?

some of the campsites ive been to on not just summer camps, but for weekends as well:

Gillwell park Campsite, North London/Epping forest, UK

http://www.gilwellpark.org.uk/location.htm

Walesby forest Campsite, Nottinghamshire, UK ( largish site, with a licenced bar)

http://www.walesby-scout.demon.co.uk/camp.htm

Braggers wood campsite, Christchurch ( near Poole, and Bournemouth) Dorset, UK

http://www.christchurchscouts.org.uk/braggerswood/

Oaks in Charnwood, North West Leicestershire ( East Midlands), UK

http://www.oakscampsite.org.uk/homepage.php

Phasels wood campsite, Hemel Hempstead, UK

http://www.phaselswood.org.uk/

Willersly campsite, near Ashby de-la-zouch, North west leicestershire, UK

http://www.willesley.org/campsite/

Drum hill campsite, Derby, UK (East midlands)

http://www.drumhill.org.uk/

Kandersteg, WOSM International Scout Centre, Kandersteg, Switzerland ( near/not too far from Bern)

http://www.kisc.ch/youare/welcome

Various Farmers Feilds around the UK

Marrakech, Morrocco + trekking in the High Atlas mountians, staying in Berber tribal vilages

Peak 2000, international scout and Guide camp, Chatsworth

http://www.shu.ac.uk/city/community/peak2000/mainindex.html

and this year

Peak 2005 International scout and guide camp, Chatsworth

http://www.peak2005.org.uk/

After that, possibly somewhere in Norway, Denmark, or Sweeden.

I have looked over some of the program books that came out just before and just as the programs changed.

The balanced programs and ideas for troop meetings seemed like a neat idea. But with everything so "Packaged" how do you involve the Patrol Leaders Council in planning the troop meetings?

Eamonn.

The scout group im invovled with has had a few problems over the last few years, first of al there was a major fall out with the Cub leader ( slight understatement) and the scout leader, from what i can gather it was something tat was simmering for years, and just boiled over.

The cubs were no longer comunicating with the Scouts, so anyone that came up through cubs into Scouts just turned up at Scouts, without us knowing anything about that person.

Eventualy the normal flow of Cubs to Scouts dried up, as its beleived/rumoured that the cub leader wasnt encouraging the cubs to move up to scouts when the time was right 9 ie ptting them off Scouts)

while all this was going on, our Group Scout Leader was battling cancer, and with the Start of explorer scouts the Scout group efectivly lost all its expeirienced patrol leaders.

not only that but the Scout Leadership team had less time available to volunteer towards scouting.

with the normal flow of Cubs to Scouts stopped, and other problems the numbers of scouts fell back a bit,.

At the time we ( as scout leaders) were un able to run a full on patrol system, however there was still a ( reasonably) full programme of activities avaialable, although the programme was put together either on the spot, or in the pub over a few beers after the scouts had finished.

Sadly after a long battle against Cancer, our Group Scout leader ( someone who i have known sice i was about 10) lost his battle, and is with us no more.

soon after that things went realy wrong with the cubs, and the cub leader was suspended from scouting, and eventualy removed, the suspension and eventual dismisal all happened very fast ( it was on an unreleated issue to the earlier disagreements)

due to some extreme luck, a new ( temporary) cub leader was found, who is also an assistant scout leader, all of a sudden the Scout leaders were talking to the Cub leader, on freindly terms.

Things have calmed down a bit in the Scouts as well, and we now have some patrol leaders, although there still quite young and not too expeirienced, there was a 'Patrol leaders meeting' where a program was worked out in conjunction with the PLs.

As for the new balanced program, I havent seen much of that yet ( not done the training module for it) although i have seen the new(ish) challenge badges and the requirements, and were trying to fit the program in around some of the requirements of the badges ( basicly they do activities on a scout night that can go towards certain aspects of the badge(s)

by balanced were trying to do a bit of this, and a bit of that, but not too much of the same thing.

after witnessing things going into a steady decline, it now looks like things are finaly getting better, were Losing one Scout to Explorers soon, but there are at least 5 cubs that will be joining us soon.

theres going to be a meeting before the next Scout night in the pub, where a few other bits and bobs will be sorted out.

after Helping out with teh Scouts for a while, i decied to take the plunge, and apply to be an Assistant Scout Leader., so i filled the form in, and went on a few of the new Modular courses.

so far ive only done the (very) basic stuff, which is detailed below;

Module1 through to 3

these were very easy,

module 1 :

cosisted of

child Protection ( ie deliang with any aleged abuse, safety issues the do's and dont's and so on) and the importance of the C.R.B system

understanding the basic fundamentals of Scouting ( Scout promise/law etc)

Safety of other people, and yourslef ( risk assessments etc)

The Structure of Scouting in the UK, ( ie Group, District, County, etc)

Where to go to get help or advice

Support structures

Equal oportunities policy, ie scouting for all regardless of Sex, Race, Ethnicity, Mental disability, Physical Disability, Religious beliefs ( although a complete lack of a belief in anything 'spiritual'is a bar to taking up a leadership role) , sexual preferneces ( ie including and acepting people who are openly gay, lesbian, or anything in between)

Mdoule2 was no more than a discussion with the training advisor#

Module 3 consisted of

understaning the proceses in the relavent scout section ( ie Beavers/cubs/scouts/Explorers) that you have aplied to.

understanidn how to put a basic program together, and where to find ideas for the program

the importance of games and promoting team building and trust amongst young people

The importance of ceromonies ( ie investments and the basic structure of a meeting)

and that was module1-3

theres smoe more information on module 1 below

http://www.glne-scouts.org.uk/training/module01.html

and module 3

http://www.glne-scouts.org.uk/training/module03.html

Heres a few of the things that are done within my local group to Raise money:

Equipment Hire/Tent erection

Weve got mess tents, marquees shelters and a few other bits and bobs that spend most of their life sitting in a store room at the back of the Scout and Guide Hut, if other groups want to use a tent/marquee for a function ( ie beer tents, partys etc) then we can provide them for a fee, or donation, We will put them up on site, and take them down when done.

We also erect large tents/marquees for people who dont know how.

this usualy involves the older members of the group and leaders.

Car Parking

In he local area there are a few Agricultural shows, Steam rallys and other such outdoor events, car parking for these events is usualy in an open feild, we will deal with the the car parking and any on site general public traffic management issues ( ie one way systems and directions for people exiting the event)

there are some very important safety issues to deal with when doing an event like that, but as long as the Scouts are fully aware of the basic guidlines ( ie personal safety /dealing with possible abusive behaviour from the public) and are able to get adult help if needed things tend to go well.

Generaly this type of thing involves Scouts upwards ( age 10 and above)

Car Washes at the Scut hut

or anywhere else hat can provide a water suply

drive your car in, and for 2.50 you can drive it out again clean

Event Bar/beer tents

we havent done this for a while, and due to UK law it can only involve those over 18 serving alcoholic drinks to the general public( scout networkmemebers/leaders)

Basicly we will run the beer tent for public events, in the past we have provided the beer, the beer tent, and the bar equipment ( pumps CO2 etc)

Sponsored Events

Weve done a few sponsored bike rides ( usualy UK coast to coast rides) although these have usualy been for other charitable organisations, the last one was the North Devon coast To coast ride, which raised 5,129.67 which was donated to Cancer research UK, following the death of our group scout leader from Cancer.

Im from the UK, adn i was aware that there are a few differences between how people invovled with Scouting in the UK treat Alchol and Scouting compared to those in the USA.

The main age regarding Alchol in the UK is 18, although from what i understand about the Rules in the USA the UK laws are some what different.

In the UK it is Ilegal to knowingly sell alcohol to someone under 18, its also ilegal to sell alcohol to someone if there is a suspicion that that person is buying on behalf of someone who is under 18 ( ie some kids outside the shop may ask someone over 18 to go on and buy them something)

However Suplying alcohol to a minor, such as parents alowing kids to drink at a party, is not a direct offence, as long as they are over 5 years old ( five)

As for Drinking in uniform, some of the leaders form my local Group ( myself included ) have been out and about, and in a few pubs whilst in Scout Uniform, there is no problem at all with this.

As for Drinking on camps, when you have young people in your care, the key thing is moderation, and sensible drinking.

We had an incident about a year ago, where one of the Scouts fell out of a tree and broke his arm, we had informed the Scouts that we would be in the Leaders bar if they needed to find us ( as there was a meeting going on in there) Although as we ( the leaders) were well within the UK drink-drive limits (which we stay within when on camp with young people in our care) someone made a quick trip down to the hospital, and the broken arm incident was cleared up, and handled well.

The Scouts know that the leaders may stay up and have a quick drink at the end of the day, the parents know that we, the leaders have a drink on camp ( as some of them have been on camps themsleves as helpers and bought a few cans up)

the important thing is sensible drinking, and even though some atitudes may differ, drinking to excess while on a camp and in cahrge of Young people ( ie Scouts) is clearly inapropiate behaviour.

The older Scouting Section in the UK, Scout Network have a beer themed camp, which plays on the wording Cub Scouts 9 and even nicks the logo), the Pub Scout festival, details for the SAturday night Activities are below

Saturday night will be the biggest non fancy dress party you will have ever been to. Entertainment for this evening will be live music from Periscope, a top covers band playing anything from Busted, Green Day, Oasis, Darkness to the Beatles, the Monkeys, Bryan Adams and Gunns and Roses.

Again the bar will be open until 11 oclock, and the music continuing till midnight. Again you can gather around the camp fire for a chill out atmosphere till the early hours of the morning.

http://www.pubscoutfestival.co.uk/

We have a few rules when the Scouts go on camp,

No Mobile Phones ( cell phones)

Nothing with a loud speaker, or screen ( ie gameboys)

anything else that they bring is at there own risk.

However some leaders bring a Radio along.

As for T.Vs theres not usualy anywhere to plug them in, and most camp sites do not allow generators for obvious safteey reasons.

As for Radios some leaders bring a radio along.

As for the scouting method and that sort of thing, im goign to be covering some of that in the new Modular leader training scheme (UK) this is the info that i have got so far

The Purpose of Scouting

The purpose of Scouting is to promote the

full physical, intellectual, social and spiritual

and as members of their local, national and

international communities.

The Scout Method

The Scout Method provides an enjoyable and

by adult leadership. In practice the method is

best seen when young people, in partnership

with adults, are:

enjoying what they are doing;

learning by doing;

participating in varied and progressive

activities;

making choices for themselves;

taking responsibility for their own actions;

working in groups;

taking increasing responsibility for others;

taking part in activities outdoors;

sharing in prayer and worship;

making and living out their Promise.

Equal oportunites policy:

No young person, or person volunteering their services should receive less favourable Treatment on the basis of, nor suffer disadvantage by reason of:

* financial ability;

* ethnic origin, nationality (or statelessness) or race;

* gender;

* marital or sexual status ( sexual orientation, etc);

* mental or physical ability;

* political or religious belief.

I will post back when ive done it in the training forum.

Ear rings,lip peircings, or anything else ( ie rings, watches etc)

shouldnt be a problem, as long as they are not a safety issue.

"A Scout has self-respect and respect for others."

taken from the (UK) Scout law.

Where did the alcohol come from? Who brought it?

These are two question I would need to know.

I Would ask the same questions if i was on a Camp and some scouts had some beer or any other alcoholic drinks stronger than Shandy

Again the parents would be informed and that could possibly go three ways:

1 "He/she said it was OK for him/her to take a few cans on camp"

2 "He/she usualy has a beer( or other drink) at the weekend"

3 " he/she took what? he/she didnt ask me"

In cases 1 and 2 the Parents would be informed that we dont encourage Scouts to take alcoholic drinks on Scout activities, and could they make sure that on any furthur camps they ( the scout/s) attend , that they dont bring beer ( or anything else alcoholic)

In Case 3 that would take care of itself.

As for the legal side of things, theres not much else, other than the above that could be done.

If the young person had smuggled beer/anything else on camp, and they became drunk/disorderly as a result of that, then that would be much more serious, as they would become a safety risk to others and themselves, and they probably would no longer be welcome on any camps.

their future in the Scout Group would also be questioned.

The police would not be that interested if that person had bought alcohol from a shop as long as that young person hadnt got drunk/become a hazzard, however if the issue was serious enough, and there was proff of where the alcohol was purchased, then it would be reported to the authorities ( UK Trading Standards) and action would be taken against the Shop that sold the alcohol to an under 18 year old.

theres an interesting discusion on Alcohol, Scouts and Camps on the uk.rec.scouting newsgroup which can be accessed

on this link

The example you gave about the leaders on a flight is obviously wrong, as it sets a bad example to the Scouts ( and evyone else around)

As for beer and camps in general its usualy no more than a social thing, after they Scouts have gone to bed, we may stop up for a while and have a can of beer while we talk ( quitly) other leaders may visit and are usualy offered a can of beer/glass of wine, purely as a sociable thing to do.

their is a huge difference between having a drink (1e 1-2 beers) and getting drunk.

On to the current situation thats afecting the Group im involved in regarding Alcohol and Scouts ( all age ranges).

Theres been a few changes to Scouting in the UK over the last few years, some of the age ranges have been adjusted, and Venture Scouts are no more, prevoiusly Scouts were between 10 and 15 1/2, Venture Scouts were aged between 15 1/2 to 20/21.

Now its

Beavers age 6-8, Cubs 8-10, Scouts 10-14, Explorer Scouts 14-18, Scout Network 18-25 (6-25 programme)

The Venture Scouts have been replaced by Explorers and Network, with Explorers being Under 18, which is the minimum legal age to be sold ( but not to consume) Alcoholic drinks in the UK.

The Alcohol policy of some Explorer groups, regarding the Young people drinking differs slightly;

A complete ban on the Explorer scouts having alcohol on a camp, or a 'parental consent' aproach,

I know of one group that has a parental consent aproach, and another that has a complete ban.

As for Scouts:

If i was on a camp, and one of the Scouts had some beer/other alcoholic drink, it would be confiscated, and the parents would be informed that its not aceptable for Scouts ( age 10 -14) to bring Alcoholic drinks to camp.

As for Cubs ( 8-10) i would be surprised if it was a problem.

As for scout Network, and other Leaders, again they are over 18, so its up to them what they do, and what they drink.

As long as it doesnt case a problem for anyone else then theres no problem, the key thing here being a responsable atitude, and respect for other people.

Slightly ( very) different experiences to those which i have had through Scouting in the UK with regards to Alcoholic drinks ( Beers/spirits etc)

first of all, Alcoholic Drinks are permitted in UK Scouting ( in compliance with UK law) as long as people dont go over the top.

The UK law on Alcohol is as follows:

Alcoholic Drinks must not be sold to anyone under 18.

Aged from 14 you can order an alcoholic drink as long as its with a meal in a pub or restaurant.

the minimum age is 5 years old ( not that anyones going to prosecute a bunch of 4 year olds for underage drinking anyway)

I went from Cubs (8yrs old -10), to Scouts (10 - 15 1/2) then on to Venture Scouts (15 1/2 - 20/21) and then onto various bits an bobs helping out, and now onto an assistant Scout leader.

I can remeber on a few Scout camps the leaders having a few beers late night, either on a Bar on the Scout campsite or in the 'mess' tent, nothing wrong, there, as its acepted behaviour.

After Scouts i moved onto Venture Scouts, and that age group bridged the 18 year old 'legal to buy alcohol ' age.

most Venture Scout camps had an onsite Bar so that the Venture Scouts could buy a few beers, and other alcoholic drinks.

some of the younger Venture scouts ( who had either bought their own beer, borrowed over 18 bar passes, or both) had a bit to much to drink, and needed assistance getting back to their tents.

Generaly most of the Venture scouts kept an eye out for each other, if someone had had too much, they were persuaded not to have any more.

if someone had gone over the limit, a few words were said the next day.

If someone repeatedly went over the limit ( ie needed physical help getting back to their tents/ were sick in the tent etc), they were told that they wouldnt be welcome on any furthur camps, that was the general policy in the Venture Scout group that I was involved with, and it worked, there was also someone in the group that didnt drink, incase a visit to the hospital would be required in the night, this person was either a Leader or another venture scout picked at random ( ie pulling straws) or someone decided before the camp

Most of he people that i know that went through Venture scouts learnt how to treat alcoholic drinks in a sensible way

As a Helper/ Assistant leader, I still have a couple of beers at a camp, again in the camp bar, or back at the tent.

usualy after the Scouts have gone to sleep, we stop up for a while have a few beers and discuss how things have gone.

Again there is always someone who doesnt drink much in case a hospital visit is required in the night, and non of the Leader team drinks to excess.

I had some problems with the zip code gubbins, it asked for a Post/zip code, so i stuck my postal code ( 2 letters, 3 numbers, two letters)in and all i got was an error message, so i stuck 12345 in and it worked.

Hello, Im an assistant Scout Leader, in the UK (UK Scout Association) Just starting out on the new modular Leader training scheme, after helping out here and there for a while.

Ive come up through Cubs, Scouts, and Venture Scouts, and now on to Leader training.