Pint

Another way of looking at things would be that those people who feel dissatisfied by Girl Guides Australia dropping certain elements form their promise, may want to join the Scouts instead, who do not discriminate on grounds of gender.

Just to pull up Moosetrackers comments, the main and most popular Scouting program in the UK is run by The Scout Association who are also members of WOSM (as are the the BSA) website http://www.scouts.org.uk , the BBS, or more correctly the BB&GS do exist, but they are very much in the minority they are members of the Order of World scouts (OWS) website http://www.boy-scout.net/en Then theres the Baden-Powell Scouts who are members of the World Federation of Independant Scouts http://www.traditionalscouting.co.uk/ theres a few more of these around, but i have yet to meet any ( although as far as i know they have a few groups in the USA) , plus a tiny handful of other scouting organisations (FSE, etc)

All the above scout Organisations are co-ed in the UK.

Girl guiding is Not Scouting, it shares a common background with Scouting and many principles, and elements, but at the end of the day Girl guides Australia belong to another organisation called WAGGS ( world Association of Girl guides and Girl Scouts) as do t Gril scouts USA and the Girl Guides UK.

Almost all Scoouting in the UK, Australia and elsewhere and virtualy all Scouting in the USA is a member of WOSM ( world Organisation of the Scout Movement)

both Waggs and Wosm may co-operate on certain things and matters, but they are separate entities.

Scouting in the UK for example may look simalar to the Girl guides, but once you scratch the surface you will find that there are some major differences in how Scouts and guides are organised, how they are run, rules and reguslations and so on.

We (my local Scout troop in the UK)were going to challenge the guides to laser tag, but the guides rules say they cant do that activity. .

and im sure that there are also big differences between Scouts affiliated to the BSA/WOSM and Guides/girl Scouts affiliated to WAGDGS in the USA as well.( as well as differnces between non BSA scouting/wosm scouting and non waggs guiding/girl scouts)

So what goes on in a non Scoutng organisation elsewhere has little or no impact or bearing on WOSM Scouting anywhere else.

If Scouts Australia (Wosm) managed to drop the God bit form their promise ( oath) then maybe it would be worth sitting up and taking notice of.

Weve had uniformed Scouts frisked and checked at airports before in the past, although the staff at Amsterdam Schipol are/have been amongst the most freindly and effecient out of all the airports that i have been through with Scouts, we even got a breif explanation on how the body scanner worked - something about back scatter and some one in a remote room checking the images and highlightng areas to look at on a figure, although they were more interested in the baggage X ray machine.

Heres something thats doing the rounds in the UK..

Taken from here http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/Finance/article/1132691/bad-volunteers-cancer-says-scout-association-director/ ( full article )

Bad volunteers are like a "cancer in your organisation", according to Stephen Peck, operations director at the Scout Association.

 

 

"The biggest risk to your organisation is that youve had someone there for 30 years and theyre a pain," he said. "They annoy others or theyre rude to customers in your shop.

 

"Weve all come across volunteers who are blockers. You get rid of them and lots of other people immediately offer to help. Those people are like a cancer in your organisation."

Like it or not, the BSA and homosexuals argument is not going to go away, and apart form the rights/wrongs of the issue it is a stick that the media and other organisations in the USA use against Scouting gernerating lots of negative publicity on the way, and denying some of the good publicity which Scouting deserves and should get.

Over the last few years Scouting in the UK has enjoyed some excellent publicity from the media, and has recruited a few high profile figures as Chief scouts, such as Peter Duncan a former childrens TV presenter known for taking part in adventurous activities - who would be a very familiar name to the parents of Scouts, as well as the current Uk cheif scout, Bear Grylls well known for his outdoor stuff.

We also have some well known/high profile people as Scouting ambasadors.

With the negative publicity and (media) stigma attached to Scouting if it discriminates against homosexuals and for that matter any other group), would Scouting in the UK be able to generate good publicity to the same extent, and as a result would UK scouting ( as in via The Scout Association ) be anouncing an increase im membership for the seventh consecutive year?

As for the God question, thats a topic for another discussion, UK rules say that you cant be a full leader if you have an avowed absence of religious belief, but you can still be an associate member.

youth memebers are deemmed to be still finding their way, if they question the duty to God part of the Scout promise.

From a UK perspective what would happen if we were on an international camp/event in the USA and amongst our leader team we had an openly gay female leader, as well as an openly gay male explorer scout? wold these individuals be kicked out of the USA as soon as their sexual orientations became known?

and out of interest what do american Scouters think of the UK support material available here

http://scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=377,378 and could the differences in opinion/policy be used to help draw attention to the issue?

copy and paste of the text from the above web link...

Member resources > Scouting for all > LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender)

LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender)

The Scout Association has an equal opportunities policy, and welcomes members regardless of their sexual orientation.

The factsheets below contain more information. If you have any questions, please email diversity.inclusion@scouts.org.uk

View Supporting a young person who is gay and in Scouting (FS185083) (PDF)

View It's OK to be gay and a Scout: advice for young people (FS185082) (PDF)

View Being gay with an adult role in Scouting (FS185081) (PDF)

Information Centre Catalogue

I was in Ireland a couple of years ago, and after a few drinks in the local the converastion turned to politics ( of a sort) one of the locals said that "politicians are like babies nappies ( daipers) they need to be changed for the same reasons after a while"

This is the UK Scout associations take on things, from Policy, Organisation and Rules chapter 2

"With reference to religious belief, the avowed absence of religious belief is a bar to appointment to a Leadership position."

As for young people, if they can say the scout prommise upon joining, then theres no problem.

As for the relegious side of things, when i was dping my ( wood badge ) Leader training in the UK, we were told that Scouting ( in the UK) is not a religeous organisation, but a youth based organisation with a relegeous policy ( see above from POR)

Leaders - Text message and e-mail, face to face in meetings or in the pub

Parents - Email,website and letter handed out to Scouts, and sometimes in the pub.

Scouts - Letter, and sometimes in the pub, usualy acompanied with their parents.(This message has been edited by pint)

Generaly Scouts are strongly discouraged from bringing phones to camp, and other events as they..

can cause a dsitraction, especialy when a scout is updating his/her facebook status etc etc while trying to give out important information

Phones are easy to loose, easily damaged, and in alot of cases can be expensive to replace, Scouting activities are not normaly kind to fragile electronic devices, and they wont be covered under the UK Scout associations insurance policys.

charging facilities may also be few and far between, once the battery is flat youve got an expensive lump thats only use is a paperweight.

First night on camp, a Scout may phone his/her parents up complaining that there not having a good time, as they had to do the washing up, or any other chore, parents turn up the next day to take the Scout home, Scout wants to stay.

Spending all night texting staying uo all night, and not gettign much sleep.

spending time on premium rate "adult" phone numbers, i know of one leader where one of their Scouts took a phone to camp, despite being advised not to.

This particular scout spent quite a bit of time listening to premium rate calls/numbers, when the parents received a huge bill they tried to blame the leader

Going abroad? im not sure what the situation in the USA is with international roaming, but UK carriers charge a small fortune for calls, texts and data while abroad and if your not careful you can run up a bill of over a thousand pounds.

Don't know for a fact but I've been told by Venturing leaders in my district that BSA members aren't allowed to attend any sort of moot. Apparently there is a beer tent involved at many of them. Since the BSA has a strict no alcohol policy they refuse authorization for Venturers to attend moots. Just what I've heard

Ive been to a few International camps, at home in the UK, and elsewhere in Europe, all of them have featured bars selling alcholic beverages, some have been closed off for adults (over 18's ) only typically in the UK, while other international camps have had the bar area as an integral part of the evening activity/entertainment area open to anyone, but only selling alcoholic drinks to over 16's ( as found in Germany, Switzerland, Holland and a few other places) at almost all of these camps there has been Scouts from the USA, and non of them have had any issues with the fact that alcohol is sold on site, sometimes all day, every day in more than one bar/outlet.

As far as camping and residentail trips go in the UK Cubs ( age 8-10 ) often camp out in tents, and some of the restrictions on Beaver Scouts have recently been lifted, which means its easier to take Beaver Scouts out camping ( although as im not a Beaver Scout leader im not too sure on the exact ins and outs of that)

although there is a huge difference between how you would run a cub camp, and how you would run/supervise a Scout Camp

As for the Age ranges, a 13 or evena 12 year old patrol leader is goign to need a lot more help, and guidance than a 15 year old, and things dont run quite like they used to, apparently, although ive not got a huge amount of expeirience as a leader under the old age ranges.

Scouts in the Uk is now 10 1/2 ( or 10) up to 14 ( or 14 1/2 ) from there its Explorer Scouts up to 18.

previously we had Scouts up to 16 and Venture Scouts up to 21.

The Venture scout section used to cross the 18 age gap, now all over 18s have to be CRB checked ( detailed background checks) plus there was the issue of alcohol.

As a Venture scout it was common to swap Over 18 and under 18 passes in order to get served at the bar on many events and camps, plus there was the stuff that was bought to camp as well ( beer vodka/whiskey/ and so on )

some Venture Scout groups had a sensible atitude to this, get drunk cause a nuisance once, do it again and your not coming on any other event until you can gaurentee you will behave, if it happens again then thats that. where as some other groups werent quite as sensible.

So with Explorer Scouts stopping at 18 quite a few problems have been solved.

Sometimes i wonder just what the publicity department at Gilwell (UK Scout association base) are upto.

The Gays issue is a non issue, as they have been allowed to join for quite a few years now.

As for the promotion of it all, my only issue is why chase minorities, when the real need is to target the majority - especially when it comes to recruiting adults from the general population to join and become Leaders.

as for other non affiliated ( ie non WOSM ) Scout organisations they are very much smaller in number, and the BPSA have had girls in longer than the main UK Scout Association.

the nothing until 15 is there because Scouting in mainland china is officially banned.

instead, those under 15 join the communist party's Young Pioneers.

However it appears that the authorities are tolerating some Scouting activities, as long as they steer clear of the young pioneer age group.

The Scout association in the UK has just released its annual Census figures, and it has seen another year of increased membership and it is now in its sixth year of continuous growth.

Also for the first time ever more girls than boys have joined what was once a Boys only organisation.

Scouting in the UK first started accepting girls into its upper section, Venture Scouts ( as it was then) in the late 1970's with girls only being allowed to join Beavers/Cubs/Scouts in 1991, at the discretion of the leaders/Scout group.

In 2007 all Scout groups/sections had to accept girls if they wanted to join, any leader who refused to accept girls were no longer welcome.

sources:

BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13082946

The Scout association UK http://scouts.org.uk/

Heres some more information from a UK scouting message board www.escouts.org.uk

this was posted there by a UK Sea Scout leader, who I assume was on board a Royal Navy ship that arrived in Benghazi as part of the international aid effort..

link to post http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=18312

posted by GuruChris..

"I must admit, it was a surreal moment a few weeks ago. We'd arrived alongside in Benghazi on Her Majersty's finest, not quite sure what to expect. There were queues of people on the jetty waiting to get on board and be evacuated to safety, with more arriving by the minute, when a pick up truck full of youths pulls up on the jetty. As we're all watching and preparing to send a Royal Marine team over to investigate i notice through my binoculars that they were all wearing Scout scarves, and the truck was full of blankets; they'd come to see if we needed any help and make sure people weren't suffering in the unusually bad weather.

Not what any of us had expected, and made me very proud to be part of the Scouting family "

Reading into Scouting and Libya, it appears that Scouting has been left alone by the Libyan authorities due to its strict non political status, and possibly due to the fact the Colonel Gadaffi was once a Scout himself.

Every now an again i take a look in here, being a UK Scout leader its another potential source for ideas, and to see how other people play the same game of Scouting but with slightly different methods.

One of the things that puzzles me is the whole Charter org set up, and sponsoring authority rules.

is it not possible for BSA Scout troops/Cub packs etc to be self sufficient entities in their own right, doing away with Charter Organisations ( Orgnaizations) and then either funding their own meeting place or paying to use somewhere else suitable?

THe UK Scout association ran a competition where 8 Scouts could spend a weekend Camping with Bear Gryls on a small island off the Welsh Coast this youtube video shows some of what happened:

Looks like your discovering the joys of speed traps, or not.

in the UK speed traps, and cameras are run by sinister sounding safety camera partnerships ( AKA revenue generators)

The only unsafe driving these safety cameras are good at catching are those driver who are over the speed limit, and by far the worst type of safety camera has to be the average speed check camera, which can be found on most major roads.

An average speed check camera electronically reads your number ( licence) plate and then another camera at a set distance reads it again. If your average speed is greater than the limit between each camera you receive a fine. So if you were travelling at 85MPH in a 70MPH limit, and you pass four cameras at this speed you can get fined four times.

On top of that some UK police forces use aerial speed enforcement methods, in other words a police helicopter equipped with a speed camera to get you from above.

You dont get stopped, no one visits your house, you just get a letter with a notice of intended prosecution in the post, traced back to the driver via the number ( licence) plate.

We also have 'community speed watch' schemes where members of the local community armed with radar guns and a clipboard record number(licence) plates of drivers going too fast, these drivers then receive a letter from the local police force.

the last time i saw one of these i drove past them at a leisurely 5MPH and gave them a wave.(This message has been edited by pint)

A terrible tragedy, and at this time of year with Christmas approaching thoughts and prayers should go out to all those who have been affected.

just out of interest what type of qualification do US Scout masters require in order to take Scouts out hiking? and is there any type of permit scheme in place to authorise and show that those leading such activities are up to the job?

Whilst i am a member of the UK Scout Association, and always have been i am aware that other non WOSM aligned Scouting organisiations exist in the UK, i have never met them or 'bumped into them' but i know that they exist both in the UK and elsewhere, those that i am aware of are:

The Scout association ( main UK Scouting body to which most UK Scouts belong, member of WOSM ) http://www.scouts.org.uk

The Baden-Powell Scouts website http://www.traditionalscouting.co.uk/ from what i understand they are also active in the U.S.A, as the 1st Tarrant Scout Group. the BPSA were formed in the late 1960's as a breakaway group following the 'advance party report' which saw amongst other things the Bpy Scout association change tho the Scout association, Boy Scouts changing to just Scouts, Wolf Cubs changing to Cubs and a few other things.

The Brittish Boy and Girl Scouts http://www.boy-scout.net/en/page8/page8.html one of the earlier splits form Baden powells Scouting program, splitting away in 1910

Federation of European Scouts (FSE I dont know much about these but they can be found online at http://europeanscoutfederation.smartchange.org/possibly also known as CES Scouts, although they could be another organisation.

more on non WOSMK Scoutsing can be found here http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/sha/isa.htm

"Could some Boy Scouts row out and offer a tow? Maybe re-create that moment when a scout offered help on a foggy night"

only if they can find a Scout leader with the relevant Adventurous activity permit to supervise/lead the group.

and then asking for boy scouts would mean you would fall foul of the equal opportunities policy (UK scouting is Co-ed )and you might have to do the diversity course ( adult training)

As for technology it has its place, but if it has batteries a screen or/and relies on radio signals then its unreliable. Not only have you got the human error factor to take into account, technology always seems to fail at a critical moment. Using a back up that doesn't require batteries ( ie paper map and magnetic compass) will usually get you out of trouble - if you know how to use it.

As for the submarine, apparently they've got it off the rocks now, maybe the Royal Navy could send one of its new aircraft carriers for some assistance. As they wont have any aircraft for the aircraft carriers maybe they could let some Air Scouts use the flight deck? this could possibly all form part of David Camerons 'Big society' non-sense.

One of the problems with the BSA going co-ed is in with name Boy Scouts.

In the UK we have (had?) been slowly drifting towards going fully co ed for some years.

first there was a name change in the late 1960's from the Boy Scout Association to just the Scout Association with Wolf Cubs, Boy Scouts and Rover Scouts being replaced with Cubs, Scouts, and Venture Scouts, then the upper Venture Scout section went Co-ed sometime in the 1970's, not much changed on that side of things until the early 1990's when Scout groups could allow girls to join, although this was optional and depended upon the Scout group.

However in 2007 all Scout Groups had to accept girls , and the option to remain boy only was removed, Leaders who refuse to allow girls to join are no longer welcomed.

We have the same situation in the UK, its the person who is insured as a member of the Scout group, and not the uniform, all our 'rules' say is that a person should wear suitable clothing for the activity that's taking place.

However When in uniform the scouts easy to spot, especially when taking a group of Scouts through a busy railway stations, Airport, or any where else with large amounts of people around.

Also when arriving on camps etc it makes it easy to spot them, and for any one else on camp to know who they are and where they should be when arriving/departing.

Bear Grylls (short) message on youtube about Scouting

And how the media reported a new Scout book published in the UK (BBC news report )