Owl62

Sounds like it might be a Baker tent????

You can find information on Campfire Ashes or Scout Spirit ashes on the internet.

As for non-Scout related activity shirts.

We tell our Scouts that if they do not have a Scout related T-shirt, they should wear plain shirts.

However, shirts with US Flags, other national patriotic images, state or national parks, etc, won't result in a negative response. We do discourage commercial logos, anything violating the Scout Oath or Law, illegal activities, sports teams, etc. The only problem we ever had was one Scout who insisted on wearing a black t-shirt with a large green marijuana leaf on the front. He agreed to take it off but wanted to go home over it.

We are reasonable - and so are most of the Scouts. They all know what the rules are and what is appropriate. As the saying goes, there is a time and a place...

We were at summer camp last year on the 4th of July and even I wore a white t-shirt with a large U.S. Flag on it, a navy blue cap with a U.S. Flag patch on the front and a pewter belt buckle depicting the "Spirit of 1776" on it. No one said anything.

After the first year, most Scouts and Scouters have a least one Scout related t-shirt - most of them want them. It is hot in TX!

I have backpacked for a short distance a few times with a small propane lantern.

Eamonn: Eveready makes several florescent lanterns. Some look very similar to their white gas lanterns. But the one I use the most has 2 6" florescent bulbs and runs on 4 D cells. It is box shaped about 3X6X8 inches and has a green housing. The lamp part is hinged so you can adjust the angle of the light. A very good tent light. About $12.

Eveready also makes a very small twin LED tube light about the size of a pack of cigarettes and runs on 4 AAA batteries. The lamp part also is hinges to adjust the angle of the light. These are very nice lights. LED so they last a long time on one set of batteries. Good reading lights too. ABout $8.

And Eveready make a little LED headlight that runs on 3 AAA batteries and features both white and red lights. ABout $15.

But in camp, most of the time I use a little one mantle Coleman propane lantern. Emits lots of light, small, inexpensive.

The Insignia Guide addresses "Scouting Identification" on page 6.

Says it is mandatory that all badges worn on BSA uniforms include one of the follow (and "one" is in bold print).

Corporate Name (Boy Scouts of America)

Corporate initials (BSA)

BSA fleur-de-lis (universal with Eagle or plain one-color)

Venturing, BSA; Venturing

Then there is a requirement that all badges be approved bu the national office.

But nothing is said about uniform parts such as shirts.....

The activiy uniform is supposed to consist of a Troop or Camp (Interpreted as a Scout related T-Shirt) and either the official pants or shorts.

But what constitutes an "official" activity shirt? I have seen a great number of them - some sold in Scout shops, others made available at Scout camps, training courses, etc. And some units have their own made? Some are T-shirts (both long and short sleeved), polo style shirts, and sweatshirts.

Can anyone make or have made a Scout related activity shirt? Are there any requirements about standards for such shirts?

I can't find anything about this in the Insignia Guide.

In our unit, we define the acitivty uniform as official Scout pants or shorts with a "Scout related" Activiy shirt. Since our unit has no Troop T-shirt, we allow them to wear any Scout related T-Shirt or a PLAIN T-Shirt with no logos.

I know of one troop whose "activity shirt" is a plain white t-shirt.

Does anyone have the official standing on this or know where I can get it?

Thanks

Seeing has how it almost always rains on outings (and I am sure you all will agree - for examnple, when I attended Scoutmastership fundamentals, it started raining the minute we arrived at camp, and stopped the minute we departed.... - at Wood Badge, it only rained when we were outside - seemed to stop when we were in the classroom) - Rain Gear is an important topic and essential item of equipment.

For most outings, I carry both a poncho and a rainsuit. My rain parka doubles as a lightweight hooded jacket. It is waterproof coated nylon. Pants are the same but about the only time I use them is in contiuous rain. I almost always carry a small daypack around camp when away from the campsite. In I I carry the rainsuit, a first aid kit, flashlight, matches, utility tool, water, some snacks, and a notebook and pen. I also pack an old coated nylon poncho which I use sometimes for rain gear, sometimes for a tarp. When backpacking, I usually opt for the poncho (and the rain suit pants),

Gortex and similar fabrics are just too expensive for most Scouts and Scouting activities. I find coated nylon a good compromise.

I was looking for a rainsuit for my daughter the other day and could only find PVC suits in her size. My experience with straight PVC is that is is uncomfortable, tears easily, and just does not hold up. - same for PVC ponchos. So I compromised. She has a PCV poncho, and I got her a large coated nylon rain parka that reaches her knees - seems to work.

Ponchos: Almost everyone I know in Scouting uses inexpensive PVC Ponchos - including adults and more experienced Scouts and Scouters. I have always questioned the quality of a $5 poncho. Although they are better than none. Some even rely on those $1 clear plastic emergency ponchos. While again better than none I think they are better suited for "emergency" use - even I often carry one.

Most of our Scouters have better quality coated nylon rainsuits or ponchos while most of the Scouts use PCV ponchos - we do try to get them to spend a few bucks and get the ones that appear to be of better quality.

Getting back on the original topic of inexpensive lanterns.

$5 is not a bad price for a single mantle lantern. I would have bought it assuming that it looked like it was safe, was gonna work, and hold up through repeated use.

One of the large discount chain stores (Name deleted but you probably have one nearby), usually sells single mantle propane lanterns for about $15. They usually have two brands, Coleman and Century. There is usually a couple of dollars difference between them. I own both and they both work about the same.

Our unit is gradually converting to these single mantle propane lanterns. They are less expensive, smaller, easier to pack and carry (they are packable in a backpack), the globes don't break near as much or often as those on larger lanterns, and the mantile holds up better, and they emit more than enough light.

For me, the campfire is one of the most important and enjoyable activities on any campout, in or out of Scouting.

I just like sitting around a campfire - don't most?

In addition to the skits, etc at Scout campfires, our unit almost always retires a U.S. Flag at the end of our campfire - even at unit campout campfires. The Scouts like participating in this and take it very seriously. We find that is a thing that really draws them together.

And just recently, we started a tradition of doing a Scout Spirit Ashes (Campfire Ashes) ceremony soon after the campfire is lit. We simply tell the story of the ceremony, call those forward who have ashes to add to the fire, read the little saying that B-P supposely said, and then add the ashes, and then carry on with the campfire. Then in the morning we collect ashes from the campfire bed.

Also, many times, especially when the weather is cool, our unit usually prepares, cooks, serves and eats one or more cobblers that the unit prepares in dutch ovens when the campifre acivities are taking place.

Look at the Insignia Guide.

What I found was:

BSA Emblem on the left pocket

Order of the Arrow Jacket Patch centered on the back (If an OA Member)

Philmont Bull on the left side above the pocket

Canoe Base Loon on the left side about the pocket

Sea base conch shell on the back (I presume centered it doesn't say)

Philmont Scout Ranch emblem centered on the right pocket

Philmont Training Center emblem centered on the right pocket

High Adventure Base emblem centered on the right pocket

Large Philmont emblem centered on the back

NESA emblem centered on the back

Jamboree emblem centered on the back

National Camping School emblem centered on the back

Scoutmaster Award of Merit emblem centered on the back

International Participant emblem centered on the back

(Only one emblem may be worn centered on the back)

There may be more but I couldn't find them.

Personally I just wear the BSA emblem on the left pocket. I don't like wearing a bunch of insignia on anything.

And, I wish the jacket was available in some shade of green (I hear that the were once available in green). I don't like the color red.

I think siblings/other children (non-registered) are ok on some campouts under some conditions.

Our unit allows siblings and non-registered children under certain conditions. First is on our annual Family Campout. Most of the families of our Scouts love to camp and they love to go see what their Scouts do on campouts.

We also allow youth who are of Scout age who want to camp with our Scouts to see what it is like - a recruiting effort. Same with Webelos Scouts.

A third circumstance is where a leader brings a non-registered child and the child remains with the parent at all times and does not interfere with Scout activities. This rarely happens. But it does and usually has added to the program. Scouting is a family affair.

Anytime a non-registered Scout attends one of our outings, we require their parent to also attend (Webelos and other siblings). But for Scout age guests, we allow them to attend without a parent but their parent has to sign a permission slip with a liability waver.

This really has not been much of an issue in the units I have been in.

I was not sure whether to post this here or in the Camping forum but chose this forum.

Flag retirement ceremonies are fairly common in the BSA. I have participated in a number of them. To me, it is a duty and most in Scouting like to participate in these retirement.

I was wondering what opinions exist out there on how to actually retire a U.S. Flag.

The U.S. Flag code simply says that when a flag is no longer fit for display, it should be destroyed in a dignified manner, preferably by burning.

The units I have been with, do a simple, dignified ceremony, sometimes reciting the Pledge of Allegience, a poem, or a song, and the Flag is placed as gently a possible in the fire, sometime folded, sometimes not.

One practice that I have seen, and am greatly opposed to and distressed by is the cutting up of a Flag prior to burning. The rationale normally given, is once a Flag is cut up, it is no longer a Flag, and can therefore be burned. The U.S. Flag Code already permits burning of Flags no longer fit for display and says nothing about cutting up a Flag, it just says to burn it. To me cutting up a U.S. Flag is disrepectful and amounts to desecration. I won't participate in it. Not only that but it usually increases the time involved in actually destroying the flag. To me, cutting up a Flag is just unnecessary. This may be splitting hairs, but that is how I feel.

Before I turn over a Flag for retirement, I always ask about the conduct of the ceremony and will not give a Flag to anyone who will cut it up prior to burning. Instead I save the Flag for another ceremony.

I know this may start a real controversy, but I would like to hear the opinions of others on this topic.

Please lets not fight over this topic. We are all entitled to our opinions.

Thanks.

It appears that some of you here have not had very good experiences with hammocks.

I've never had a hammock come loose from the tree(s). But I have never tried to sleep in a hammock when the temperatures dropped below 50F nor when the bugs were bad (I retreated to a screened tent!)

But a hammock is really nice on a warm day to relax in or to sleep in on a nice night (with no bugs).

Please don't give up on them, you just have to be prepared.

Our Boy Scout troop meets everyweek on Monday evening. We do usually skip MON meetings that are federal holdidays though.

From just after summer camp until school starts, we allow the wear of the activity uniform rather than the full official field uniform. And admitedly some of those meetings are more fun and games than full meetings - this is by design and at the request of the Scouts. We may play softball, have a little cookout, watch a movie, or play board games. Some program functions do take place though. However after school begins in the fall - we go back to our regular program meetings.

Our Venturing Crew meets weekly all year on Thursday evenings. But we do usually skip meetings that are on holidays or within a day or two of a holiday.

I don't serve in a pack so I can't address that.

Thanks.

Great idea.

And again, who do we contact at the BSA to recommend these suggestions?

Thanks.

Does anyone know who or what office we can contact at the BSA to inquire/recommend convertible pants/shorts?

As for cost of a BSA layeing system for jackets:

There either one of two or both approaches:

1. Make available relatively low cost jacket components: Such as a zippered and hooded sweat jacket, a zippered fleece jacket and a nylon wind/rain breaker with a hood that stows in the collar of the collar. Like I mentioned in my original message, these components could be had for $50 or less - IF they do the right deal.

2. Go with a more expensive component system with a fleece type liner with a weather proof hooded wind/rain parka. These can be very expensive - at least according to similar systems that I see at sporting goods stores. Somce of those systems run over $300.

Obviously option 1 will suffice for most of us in Scouting.

BP:

Did you get my private message to you about the campaign hats?

Thanks.

Owl62

I think it is time for the BSA to really think about jackets.

The BSA has light jackets, the red wool shirt-jac, and some other jackets.

Rather than totally separate jackets, I think that a component system consisting of a light jacket, and perhaps the wool shirt-jac, and then a wind/rain resistance nylon jacket with a hood that can be rolled inside the collar would be great.

This supports the concept of layering and the components could be purchased separately according to need.

While I have both a light BSA jacket and a red wool shirt-jac, I seldom wear them.

Instead, I have a hooded zippered sweat jacket, a lightweight zippered fleece jacket, and a nylon wind/rainbreaker with a hood that stows inside the collar when not needed (I wear a wool or polypropylene knit cap with this if it is really cold). I bought them all in forest green which looks pretty good with the BSA uniform. I can wear any of the components as needed. I was in a near blizzard with temperatures in the 20s with a pretty good wind chill last winter wearing this setup and was very comfortable. It all packs and wears well, is lightweight, easy to clean, holds up well and the whole works cost less than $50.

You could just as easily use the red wool shirt-jac covered by a wind/rainbreaker jacket. But that shirt-jac is about $100 - far out of reach of many.

I am wondering how many of you all would like to see the BSA develop a layered component jacket system - possible using existing or altered BSA jackets - or by developing and fielding new componets over time?

Thanks.

A quick poll:

Who here would be interested in the BSA coming out with Scout pants that could be converted to shorts by removing the pant legs that would be attached with Zippers or possible velco?

I know this has been discuss before.

Personally, give the high cost of the low quality Scout uniform pants, and the fact that many in Scouting wear both pants and shorts, I think that convertible pants/shorts would be a great idea.

Perhaps the military rejected such a design, but the BSA isn't the miliary. Our uniforms are used for different purposes under different conditions than the military.

As for the components of convertible pants/shorts fading at different rates - easy solution, wash all the components together, every time.

Also, I think the pants/shorts should have snaps or velco to secure all the pockets to prevent loss of contents.

Who could we contact at the BSA to suggest convertible pants/shorts?

Thanks.

I'd be interested. Please let us know if they are available.

Thanks.

I picked one up at the local Scout shop. Had to ask for it. They had it in a drawer behind the counter.

Same of other insignia such as Wood Badge Beads, Woggle, and Neckerchief, service stars for more than 10 years, etc.

Most of the larger Scout shops should have these items or can order them for you.

Just wondering how many of you have used hammocks camping in Scouts?

Personally, I really enjoy a hammock. I mostly use them for relaxing but have slept overnight in a hammock a few times when the weather was mild and the bugs were goine.

I don't care for the tent type hammocks. I prefer the large cotton rope hammocks with 4 foot long spreader bars. A tarp secured to a line over the hammock is a great shelter in good weather.

I've never slept in a hammock in the winter.

I just bought a hammock made by Slumberjack. It is black nylon mesh about 3X7 feet with spreader rods that can be disconnected. About the size and weight of a self-inflating sleeping pad when stowed. I plan on trying it this weekend.

Only problem with cotton rope hammocks is if they get wet, they stay wet a long time.

Any unit out there ever camped with hammocks instead of tents?

Thanks.

One thing we are very strict with is hand sanitation.

We always make sure that we have some type of handwashing device in camp. (One of those solar shower bags works very well!) And we always bring a pump bottle of antibacterial hand soap.

We also usually have a large pump bottle of hand sanitizer around and enourage everyone to carry small container of the same or hand wipes.

Anyone preparing food is required to wash their hands before, during and after and of course we have everyone wash their hands before eating and after using the latrine. And we tell them to shower or wash up before turning in. You just sleep better.

Most in my unit are very into cleanliness - especially handwashing.

Not only for cleanliness but handwashing in the best preventive measure to the spread of disease.

Just wondering how tents are handled in your units.

What kind of unit?

Does the unit have tents for members?

If so, what kind of tents?

Does the unit permit members to use their personal tents?

Are privately owned tents encouraged?

As for our units:

Boy Scout Troop: Owns the older Eureka Timberline in the 2 and 4 person sizes. Most adults and older Scouts own and bring and use their own tents. We actually encourage older Scouts 14 and up to get their own tents. Most do. Some of us just put up a tarp and a ground cloth - some of the Scouts just lay their sleeping bag out on a ground cloth - although the first dew stops most of that.

Venturing Crew: The unit owns no tents. Each members owns, brings, and uses their own. Some of the Venturers share tents.

We find that the Scouts who own their own tents care for them and unit owned tents much better.

I am not sure that unit owned tents are a good idea. I know of one troop that REQUIRES all Scouts to use a troop owned tents (Timberline) on all outings. Tents present a fairly significant cost to the unit and in many units get a lot of wear and tear. But most younger new Scouts do not own tents and it may be a negative to recruiting new Scouts to not have at least some unit tents.