Owl62

Calls of nature at night in tents can be managed without a trip outside the tent.

Without going into a much detail, there are means of dealing with calls of nature in the tent - maybe easier for the males, but still manageable for all.

If a Webelos II has completed the AOLand is 10, you can informally award it, complete an advancement report to your council, and the Scout can then join a troop. There is no BSA requirement that I know of for a "formal" AOL award ceremony. If the powers that be will allow it, an I see no reason why they would not, he can go still go to the "formal" AOL ceremony later. I see no reason to not allow a Scout to cross over and join a Boy Scout troop, if he has met all requirement, prior to having a "formal" AOL award ceremony.

In our unit, a Scout is immediately recognized when advancement requrements are met - even if the appropriate badge is not available, or if the award ceremony is days, weeks, or months, away.

In our area, when people complain of the cost of Scouting, I often hear from those who never say anything that even hints that there are any problems in the program, "the money is going to a good cause" or "it's for the Scouts" or other such comments. I doubt that much of the money spent on uniforms, and other fees actually directly benefit Scouts. I doubt that any of the money spent on uniforms actually goes to Scouts. I think that most of it goes to the manufacturer. Same for other items.

We conduct a function for one of our programs that has no fees for the participants other than what they have to spend for transportation there and home, for food that they bring, or for items that they use while there. Of course there is no activity patch, hat, t-shirt or certificate. But the Scouts get to do the activity and have fun and learn. I suspect that the pros are not happy though because the activity generates no revenue for the district or council.

Why can't more of our functions be conducted on a pay as you go basis rather than a fixed fee?

Our unit does that as much as possible. We have no membership dues, only the registration fee. Unit members know that they must then pay as they go, activity by activity, and they prefer it that way. They can choose those acitivities that they want to participare in and pay for. We conduct fund raisers that all in the unit participate in to generate money for those who are financially challenged and to my knowledge not one Scout in the unit has had to skip an acitivity solely because of lack of funding. We don't have custom unit cap or t-shirt, or neckerchiefs, nor tents that are all alike (although those are options if the unit membership decides to raise the money for them).

It's amazing to me that some people think that money has to be spent and revenue generated on things that really are not necessary to the program to make the program work.

Eamonn,

Not a problem. Sometimes the old ways still work. Aren't moms wonderful! (I keep reminding Scouts about that)

Inconvenience and discomfort are very effective teachers for most people. Most people will naturally try to prevent things that cause inconvenience and discomfort.

Bissybbb,

Here are some things that help me stay warm in a tent and sleeping bag when it is cold.

Tents:

1. Try to erect tents out of the wind if you can for one thing.

2. For tents that are longer than they are wide, try to erect the tent so that the length of the tent is in the same direction as the prevailing wind.

3. Try to not erect tents in a low lying area when it is cold will make them be colder. Cold air settles lower, warm air rises.

4. Try to erect the on a bed of natural insulators leaves, or pine straw can help.

5. Try to not erect a tent on snow or ice. They are both cold.

6. Always use a ground cloth under the tent. This will help insulate the tent and protect the tent floor.

7. Consider using another ground tarp inside the tent. It will help insulate the tent, and when the tent leaks (when NOT if) most leaks occur at or near the tent floor. The additional inside tarp will will help keep you dry becuase most of the water will go between the tarp and the tent floor.

8. Try to erect a tent where the late evening and early morning sun will shine upon it. The sun generates heat.

Sleeping pad/mattress/cot:

1. Use one or more foam sleeping pads under your sleeping bag whether directly on the tent floor or on a cot. If it is cold and I am not using a cot, I tent to put a closed cell foam pad on the tent floor and then put a self-inflating sleeping pad on top of that, then my sleeping bag on top of that. The closed cell foam will help keep you dry if the inside of the tent floor gets wet and doubling the pads will add more insulation beneath you and be more comfortable.

2. If you use any type of air mattress under you in the winter, make sure you have plenty of insulation between your sleeping bag and the airmattress. The airmattress, being beneath you will tent to hold the lower colder air.

3. If you use a cot, use plenty of insulation between your cot and your sleeping bag. Same reason, the air under the cot may be colder.

Sleeping bags.

1. Try to choose one that matches the temperatures for your area most of the year. If you live in a cold area, use a bag with a lower temperature rating. You may want to consider having more than one bag. One for warmer weather and the other for colder.

2. You can use a year around bag rated at say 40 dgrees and line it with an inexpensive fleece sleeping bag which will add 10 to 20 degrees more to the bag. Or you can use two regular sleeping bags, one inside the other. I don't care for mummy bags so I use rectangular bags.

3. I don't recommend putting your head (mouth and nose) inside your sleeping bag. Your breath has moisture in it which may condense inside the bag making it wet and maybe colder.

Clothing.

1. Don't wear anything in your sleeping bag that you wore during the day - including socks and underwear. They will contain the perspiration from your body which will cool and tend to make you colder. Change into clean dry clothing. Consider taking clothes just for sleeping. In mild weather I take a pair of athletic shorts and a t-shirt to sleep in and in colder weather I take a pair of sweat pants and sweat shirt to sleep in. Those items are for sleeping only.

2. Some advocate wearing little or nothing in the sleeping bag. If that works for you, great. if not:

3. Wear clean and dry underwear and socks in the sleeping bag. I suggest socks since your feet are the furthest from your torso and will generally be colder anyway. To that you can add shorts and a t-shirt or long johns or sweat shirt and pants.

5. Consider wearing a knit cap or balaclava (hood) on your head.

6. Also, use the latrine just before turning in and then try to stay in your sleeping bag all night. Your body heat will warm your bag and if you have to open the bag in the night, it will take a long time to re-warm it.

7. Try not to eat or drink much for an hour or so before bed. This will help prevent latrine runs during the night.

8. Keep items (flashlight, water bottle, medication, eye glasses, etc) you might need at night either in or close to your sleeping bag so you don't have to completely open your sleeping bag to reach the items.

Other:

1. I roll the clothes I plan to wear the next day in the foot of my sleeping bag as I don't like putting on cold clothing in the morning.

2. I try to dry out my boots/footgear after I take them off to dry them out a bit better. Your feet sweat - the moisture may freeze to ice - makes it rough putting them on the next morning. I dry them out with a small towel and put some foot power in them and then either stuff a wool sock in each or cover them with the towel. Seems to help.

3. Keep your jacket and gloves close at hand to put on as soon as you get up.

4. I keep my poncho near the tent door. If it is wet from use when I turn in, I drape it over the tent rather than bring it in the tent to get things wet (but I clip it to the tent so that it will not blow off).

5. Try to stay as clean and dry and warm as you can during the day and evening before turning in.

These things seem to work for me to help stay a little warmer in a tent.

Unless a tent is specifically designed to be heated it probably can't and should not be heated. This is especially true of tents commonly used in Scouting.

Fueled heaters should not be used in most tents and never in tents used by Scouts. Simple matter of safey. They can cause fires, and carbon monoxide poisoning. Just not a really good idea, nor is it safe. I'd rather be a little cold than dead.

There are some things that can be done to make tents perform better in the cold. Erect them out of the wind if you can for one thing. Also, erecting a tent in a low lying area when it is cold will make them be colder. Cold air settles lower, warm air rises. Chosing a tentsite with naturally insulating ground cover such as leaves, or pine straw can help. Try to not erect a tent on snow or ice. They are both cold. Try to erect a tent where the morning sun will shine upon it. Make sure you use a ground tarp under the tent. I try to erect my tent so that the length of the tent will run the same direction as the prevailing wind.

Inside the tent: Consider using an additional tarp on the tent floor inside the tent. Helps insulate it and when the tent leaks (they all do or will) most of the water will be between the tarp and then tent floor. Make sure to use a good sleeping pad under the sleeping bag. In the winter I use a closed cell foam pad on the tent floor, then put a self inflating sleeping pad over that then my sleeping bag.

Consider your sleeping bag. Where we live, we recommend a good bag rated to about 40 degrees for most campouts. In the winter, that bag can be made more efficient by simply putting an inexpensive fleece sleeping bag inside the other. Or you can use a bag with a lower temperature rating. Consider wearing a knit cap or balaclava on your head in the sleeping bag. And don't wear the clothes you wore during the day in your sleeping bag. It if is cold, I wear clean dry socks, and a sweatshirt and sweatpants in my sleeping bag and a fleece balaclava over my head.

Since I hate putting on cold clothing in the morning, I roll the pants and shirt and socks (if they are clean and dry) I will wear in the morning and put them inside the foot of my sleeping bag.

I also dry out the insides of my boots the best I can when turing in, with a towel (remember, your feet do sweat) and put a light cover over them. I don't know if that really helps, but it seems to.

These things seem to work for me to help stay a little warmer in a tent.

I know of no official requirement to travel in uniform to be covered by insurance.

My opinion is that the speaker was mistaken, misinformed, or deliberately misleading in an effort to "require" uniform wear.

You might want to ask the person telling you that to show it to you in a official written BSA document or publication. I have found that a very effective way to reduce the amount of misinformation. If the speaker does not have the official document or publication at hand, they should offer to get it for you and if they don't offer, ask them to get it for you. Again, my opinion is that you are entitled to know the official stance of the BSA.

Unfortunately I have heard this same thing announced at various leader training. My opinion is that it should be reported to your local Scout Executive.

There are a number of things you can do to reduce loss of items:

1. Label them in some way so that if someone finds the items, there is a better chance the items will be returned to the owner. (you may want to consider using the unit name and city rather than the owner's address). This is especially troop for items taken to Scout camps. If they are labelled, there is a good chance they will be returned. Some items that a commonly found unattended at Scout camps are: Scout handbook, merit badge books, caps/hats, gloves, canteens/water bottles, swim trunks, towels, soap dishes, jackets, sweatshirts, etc. Label them with the owner's name and Scout unit.... BTW - you might want to label your Scout (bracelet, ID tag, etc) - I have come upon lost, sick or injured Scouts at camp who did not know their unit number, camp location, or leader's name. I once came upon a young Scout suffering from the heat who did not know his name, unit, campsite, or leaders' names. Fortunately, I have some medical training, and the health lodge was nearby. Buddy system was in effect, but he was alone. Might sound weird, but label your Scouts in some way - especially the new or young ones. I wear both a military style "dog tag" on a chain around my neck under my shirt, and an ID braclet, and carry an emergency information and contact card in my wallet.

2. Consider using easy to see items that are brightly colored or shiny so they will be easier to see - especially good for items that are "lost in the woods". We are not trying to conceal ourselves or our equipment in Scouting. Consider colors like Blaze orange, bright, glow, or reflective orange, yellow, white, green, etc. You can also buy bright colored and glow in the dark and reflective paint and tape to mark items. I personally use a lot of glow in the dark and or reflective paint and tape on camping items to make them easier to locate in the dark. I paint most my zipper pulls and other buckles, and fasteners on my tents and packs with glow in the dark paint to make them easy to see in the dark. I have a strip of glow in the dark tape wrapped around my walking staff near both ends.

3. Use cords or "leashes" for items that are carried on the person or pack such as pocketknives, flashlights, keys, cell phones, pagers, gloves/mittens, caps/hats, etc. We used to call them "idiot cords" but that is probably not very pc and actually if they prevent loss, then maybe they should be called "smart cords". In cold climates, a cord for gloves or mittens that runs inside the jacket or coat at the shoulders and then down the sleeves to attach the gloves or mittens will help prevent loss of the gloves or mittens and maybe prevent cold injuries of the hands.

Just a few ideas that I use or have used that seem to work ok.

"If it ain't raining, it ain't training!"

I also like Trevorum's:

"There's no such thing as 'bad weather', There's just poor choices in clothing."

You can almost bank on it that if I am camping, it will rain.

What's that other saying?

"Be Prepared"

Yes

Our troop has adopted a neckerchief. It is one of the BSA standard ones. The only times the neckerchief is required to be worn is at COH, ceremonies and other special occasions. It can be worn other times if the Scout or Scouter just wants to when wearing the field uniform. They can also have their choice of slide or just tie it in a knot. Most only wear it for ceremonies.

Most of the Scouters in the troop are older and we are trying to gently guide the troop back to traditional ways. The neckerchief is one such example. Not that we want to live in the past, just stay in touch with it.

I have been in troops that have worn neckerchiefs and others that did not. Personally, I like them. We are also considering a custom neckerchief.

As I said interpretation.

Perhaps there are some here who have access to the full set of uniform regulations????

To me, it makes little difference whether the beads are worn with neckerchiefs other than the Wood Badge Neckerchief. In fact, personally, I see nothing wrong with it. And I wouldn't say anything to someone I see wearing the beads with other neckerchiefs.

But, I still interpret the current BSA Uniform Guide as the beads are worn with the WB Neckerchief and that is the only neckerchief I will wear them with - unless like I said someone has access to the whole set of uniform regulations.

As I said, interpretation, but I could be mistaken.

Ozemu,

I have a Scouter friend in the UK and he says that they can wear the Wood Badge Beads with their unit neckerchiefs too. And as you say, we are all always supposed to wear the beads when wearing the Wood Badge Neckerchief and Woggle.

The 2005 Insignia Guide states:

"Wood Badge slide or woggle, No. 02173 trained Scouter, with Wood Badge neckrchief; necklace with two beads, No. 02175; three beads, No. 02176; four beads, No.02177; worn under the Wood Badge neckerchief, and over the ends below the woggle, with the official field uniform; Wood Badge beads are not worn with civilian clothes, dress blazer uniform, or with a t-shirt. Wood Badge beads may be worn with a neckerchief as indicated, or alone."

That pretty clearly says that in the BSA, how the beads are to be worn, and because it says "as indicated' can only be worn with the Wood Badge neckerchief and no other.

Also, there is no mention of crossing or twisting the Wood Badge neckerchief. I interpret that to mean that also long as the necklace is worn under the neckerchief and over the ends of the neckerchief, it does not matter if the necklace is crossed or twisted under the neckerchief. I have heard people say that the necklace and beads should be worn as indicated here with the beads "hanging free" but the current guide does not say that.

Personally I put the necklace around my neck under the Wood Badge neckerchief and cross the necklace one time UNDER the neckerchief where it does not show, and then put the beads in front over the ends of the neckerchief (the necklace is not twisted in front of the ends of the neckerchief). That keeps the beads from moving around as much and keeps them more or less centered over the ends of the neckerchief.

I have seen people insert the necklace and beads through the back of the woggle and then put the beads in front of the ends, and I have seen the necklace worn around the neck under the neckerchief and with the necklace twisted around the ends even over the front of the neckerchief one or two times with the beads in front over the ends of the neckerchief. Personally I think that stretches what the guide says but again the way I interpret what it says, it does not say one cannot do that.

Lisabob,

The Wood Badge beads can be worn with the official field uniform anytime you where it. With that uniform you can wear the beads, with or without the WB Neckerchief and woggle but if you wear the neckerchief and woggle you must wear the beads also. The Wood Badge regalia can be worn with the Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Varsity, and Venturing leader field uniform. You should not wear the beads, neckerchief or woggle with anything else.

Someone on here once told me that it was permissible to wear the beads with other neckerchiefs, but I checked the insignia guide and it says only with the WB Neckerchief. If I wear our troop neckerchief, I do not wear my beads.

I tend to wear mine anytime I put on by Boy Scout or Venturing uniform. I wear the WB neckerchief and woggle with the beads at Courts of Honor, Wood Badge Functions, ceremonies, and other occasions that I feel is appropriate.

If you earned em, I say wear em when you want to as long as it is with the proper uniform.

Here is what I would consider to be an ideal uniform.

I would use one uniform for all programs. Same shirt, same pants/shorts. Still offer the shirt in short and longsleeved versions. I would have one standard short and long sleeved t-shirt (with a breast pocket (pocket tee). This would eliminate the need for those in multiple positions and units having to have multiple uniforms.

I would change from the current pants to make them more like the current Venturing pants but with velcro on all pockets and I would make them convertible so that the legs could be zipped off to convert them to shorts.

I would continue to use colored shoulder loops to indicate the program of the wearer.

The belt would be the web belt - but each program would have their own buckle, or custom buckles would be permitted, or custom leather belts and buckles.

For socks I would would like to see similar to what is offered now. Ankle socks, crew, and knee socks, and both heavy boot socks and liner socks.

Neckerchief: I would change to the older square version that is folded in a triangle to make it a true multi-purpose neckerchief. The neckerchief could either be standard or customized with either a standard or custom slide.

Insigina. I would convert many of them to pin on or velcro.

The council patch I would leave as is. Sewn on.

The unit numbers I would convert to a velco attachment so that those in district and higher positions can just remove them.

Same with the position patches. Velcro them so that those with multiple positions can just switch them.

I would add a district patch - also velcro worn between the council patch and the unit numbers. Some people are not in districts or serve in more than one district.

I would move the den or patrol patch to be velcroed below the unit unit numbers.

I would leave the flag patch and add one to the jackets discussed below.

I would change the rank patches to either velco or to hang from the shirt pocket button of the left pocket - possibly either as an option. And I would change the Venturing awards to patches to patches similar to the Boy Scout rank.

I would also add velcro to the right shirt pocket for temporary patches or hang them from the pocket button.

I would change the Trained patch to a knot ribbon with devices to indicate the specific training.

I would change the current square knots to miliary style ribbons that can be removed when not needed, with devices to indicate specifics. In addition to those that exist, I would add a tenure or service ribbon (one for each program (Cub, Boy Scout, Varsity, Venturing, District, etc. ) with star (bronze for one year, silver for 5 years, gold for 10 years devices to replace the year pins. I would add a Wood Badge ribbon and a ribbon or badge for those who are trainers. But I would leave the current Wood Badge beads as they are.

I would change the optional name plate to required for adults, optional for youth, but to be worn as a pin on about the right shirt pocket or a sewn on embroidered style but so that either that can be customized by the wearer. I would not allow the type that hang from the pocket button.

Most of the metal pins and badges I would change to pins worn about the pocket or convert them to the miliarty style ribbons.

Develop a standard sweat shirt and hooded sweatshirt with full zipper as optional items. Custom versions would also be authorized.

Jackets: I would use a standard jacket in a layered system:

Inner fleece zipped jacket that can be worn separately or with a wind/rain resistant zipped jacket with a hidden hood in the collar with a universal BSA patch on the left front that could be worn with or withot the fleece jacket. And matching wind/rain resistant pants. I would continue to offer the current red jac-shirt as an option but offer a green and or brown color version as an option - both with slash pockets at the sides.

Headgear: I would offer standard basball style, floppy brim style, campaign and expedition style and knit cold weater caps - all the same for all programs with the same universal cap/hat emblem, but optional baseball style and floppy brim style that are custom. I would also add a cowboy style hat in both straw and felt versions for those so inclined!

Just some of my ideas.

Basically, we should strive to wear a uniform consisting of official components. I think most of us do that, but, sometimes practicality causes some to do otherwise.

Personally, I wear official uniform components for MOST activities as do most of the members of the units I am associated with. And I think this is probably pretty much the same situation in most places.

In our troop, if the family has financial issues, we advise them to get the Boy Scout Handbook first. Then at least the uniform shirt. The unit provides the unit numbers, red shoulder loops, patrol patch, and position patch if any. And we have a small uniform bank. We were actually able to mostly outfit one new Scout with shirt, patches, and pants. But they had to get the belt, cap, socks, neckerchief and slide. So that saved that Scout alot of money.

With the growth rate of Scout aged youth, we always suggest that they buy uniform parts that are a bit large. As the saying goes, "they will grow into it". We tolerate pants and short that are not official but suggest that they be similar to the official pants such as cargo pants or shorts - and we allow the wear of such pants and shorts for hiking, working in camp, etc. My opinion is that the "field" uniform is not the best type of clothing for the field. Especailly the pants. The shirt is not bad, but those offician pants just don't hold up long under field conditions.

We do try to keep a uniform bank of "experienced" uniforms. We also suggest that they try thift shops, flea markets etc. I am not a big fan of ebay but that might be a source also.

We would rather have someone in the program than to not have them just for lack of a uniform or components. We do have a few adults in out unit that don't have official pants or shorts but they try to wear something that is close. I for example just was able to purchase official Venturing pants - I was wearing a pair of very similar grey cargo pants. While those Venturing pants pants are durable, in my opinion they are not worth what the BSA charges for them. And I don't like the rear pockets. But I think that the Boy Scout pants should be more like the Venturing pants.

I don't particularly care for blue jeans or even worse sweat pants or those floppy nylon basketball type shorts to be worn with the uniform shirt.

Many believe that if the official uniform components were not so expensive, many more people would purchase official uniform. For examply I would like to see improvements in the official olive pants in the way of more durable material, put real cargo pockets on them, and make them "convertible" so that the legs can be zipped off to make shorts. The shirt is not bad but I would change most of the insignia to pin on or velcro - specifically the unit numbers (many are multiple registered in other units), position patch, quality unit. I think the little plastice holder for temporary patches on the right pocket are great. I would change the square knots to military style ribbons. I would make the neckerchief larger - maybe even going to the older square version that is folded into a triangle - make it truely versatile again. I would change the Trained patch to either a pin or a ribbon. Probably a ribbon with devices for each type of training would work well. We spend way too much for sew on patches and then have to pay to have them sewn on. Course I don't really expect many if any of those changes to take place.

So "suitable" I guess is in the eyes of the beholder. Some I know will flat tell you, wear the whole uniform or none at all. I think that is a bit harsh (which you would find difficulat to believe given my background) but again, I would rather have someone in the program doing the best they can. Bottom line is that according to the rules, you are supposed to wear the official uniform components.

Just my opinion.

Thanks to all.

I have completed Venturing Adult Leader Basic Training, New Leader Essentials, a bunch of other training courses including Boy Scout Committee training over the past 30 years.

Venturing Adult Leader Basic training mentioned the committee crew, but did not cover it in as much detail as the Boy Scout Committee training course did for Troop Committee training.

I have not been able to find any type of Venturing Crew Committee training anywhere. I don't think it exists.

Another question is, can Venturing Crew Committee members wear the trained strip with their committe patches, if they have attended Venturing Adult Leader Basic Training?

Thanks.

Does anyone know if there are Leader Specific training courses for:

Venturing Crew Committee

Venturing Crew Committee Chairman

Those courses exist for Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts but I have necer seen them for Venturing.

Thanks.

Wood Badge is big in our council. Sometimes there are only 4 courses a year but they try to do five.

I am just trying to find out how adult training is done in your council.

In our council, training is usually conducted as follows:

University of Scouting: 1 time per year for a day. Offers counrses that can lead to degrees in Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, Venturing, District Committee, and Commissioner Science.

Wood Badge: 5 courses a year, 1 is at Philmont for a week, 1 is for LDS Scouters only, and the other three are conducted locally over two three day periods each.

Aditionally, courses are scheduled throughout the year such as facilitator training, CPR and first aid training, wilderness first aid training, rifle, shotgun, black powder, pistol, district committee seminar, BALOO, youth protection, Safe Scouting, Climb On Safely, Safety Afloat, Safe Swim Defence, etc. Some of those are specially schedule courses, some are held at camporee, summer camp, etc.

Our District conducts two training sessions per year; once in the spring and once in the fall. All of the leader specific training is included in that: den leader training, cubmaster training, Scoutmaster/Assistant Scoutmaster, committee training, etc.

Some courses are available on-line. But not much.

I have heard the topic of Venturing and Order of the Arrow being discussed over the pass couple of years. OA is a program within the Boy Scout program of the BSA.

There are some who feel that Venturers who meet certain requiremens should be eligible for membership in the OA.

But I have heard that there have been some honor societies that have been started in the Venturing program (not sure if they are officially supported by the BSA or not).

Does anyone know about any Venturing Honor Societies that have or are in the process of being formed?

Thanks.

I find it interesting that the word "respect" has been used pretty much throughout this thread.

Interesting how some things are just "rules".

Maybe respect is more of an opinion than a fact? But it may be a fact in the mind of the person with the opinion.

Respect is earned and is not automatic because of our age, profession, or station in life.

I know people that I don't have a whole lot of respect for and just because I address them by their title, in no way indicates that I repect them to any degree.

There are generally two groups of people that I address by their titles, those that I have little or no repect for and use their title to maintain distance from them, and those that I have a great deal of respect for and use their titles because of that repect. Friends and family are addressed by first name.

Simply because you are addressed by you title does not mean that the person address you has any repect for you.

I generally ask people that I do not respect to address me by my title. Definitely puts them on notice.

I repect all people as human beings - just because I do not repect someone does not mean that I do not like them. There are some that I really do respect - but I may not really like them.

Other than through customary usage, who or what says that using the title Mr., Mrs, Miss, Ms, etc - is repectful. I think that things like this are "learned" over time - many times is just something that is done through custom, teaching, habit, opinion, etc.

We often claim that a thing is right or wrong but is it really? I think that many times it is an opinion more than anything. Some things are declared "wrong" by some people, but are perfectly acceptable and not "wrong" to others.

I know of nothing in the BSA that mandates it. Some organizations such as schools sometimes have in their rules that students must address adults with those titles.

Why should youth address adults using Mr. Mrs., Miss, etc, when we usually address youth by their first name??? I will sometimes address a Scout as Mr. and his last name. Why not?

Some people actually have professional titles such as Doctor, Captain, Sergeant, etc. I supposed that since they had to earn those titles they have more of a cause to be addressed by their title. How does one earn the titles of Mr. Mrs. Miss, etc? Maybe simply by attaining the age of majority? Does something magically happen when we "become" adults to warrant being addressed in a certain manner?

How many of you have heard someone address or speak to or of another using a title, but the tone of the voice was not respectful. Disrespect can be masked by simply using a title.

Even in the business world, first names are used more often than not. Just take a look at the ID badges that employees are forced to wear and often, the first name is printed very large and the last name is printed very small.

I know a person with a PhD who insists on being called "Doctor". I suppose it is every person's right to want to be addressed as they wish, but except in very limited circustances, there is no real way to enforce that desire.

I suppose that if someone does not address us as we wish, we can just ignore them - not sure what that would gain though.

I was TAUGHT to address adults as Mr. Mrs. Miss, Ms. I was never told it was respectful. Just do it. Over time, I came to understand that I address people by their titles because I repect the person - had nothing to do with the title. I was TAUGHT to address military people by their rank because it was required in the regulations and because they earned it. I did it more out of professional respect than because it was required.

In my Scouting and non-Scouting life, MOST youth address adults, including me, as Mr. Mrs, Miss etc. But not all and even those that do, sometimes don't. And I don't necessarily think that they are being disrectful if they don't. I don't have a problem with a youth calling me Mr. and then my first name. Some adults do mind.

I found it interesting that some units address registered adults as Scouter and last name and Scouts as Scout and last name. I see nothing wrong with that.

In the end, I think a person has the right to be addressed as they wish - but again, except in very limited circumstances, there is no real way to enforce that desire. Personally, I prefer to be called by my first name under most circumstances, but I am not offended if some one address me as Mr. either. It does not bother me that youth call me by my first name. After all, it is my name.

Interesting topic but I doubt there is no one "right" answer.

I don't usually suggest specific sources for gear, and I don't necessarily endorse any but LED lights can be bought at several retail outlets that are located in most areas:

Target Store - now appear to be carrying a nice variety of LED Lights for good prices. New lines include "Rock River" and Inova. The little Inova micro lights are inexpensive and are good lights.

Wal-Mart - has carried LED lights for a while.

Academy - carries a wide variety of LED lights as well.

There are probably others but Target and Wal-mart are located across the US.

I really like the "micro" LED lights from Photon and Inova. I think the Photon lights are better but they are usually more expensive. I have a couple of Inova microlights and while they are a bit larger than the photons, they are less expensive and seem to work well. The new versions have microprocessors in them that can activate three levels of light including a flashing mode. The light colors for the Inova that I have seen are white, red, blue and green. I usually wear a micro light on a neckchain where it is always available.

I bought an adapter kit for my 2 AA cell Mini-Mag light. (Got it at Wal-mart for about $5) It has three LED bulbs in it and the light now lasts hours rather than minutes. It replaces the original mini-mag bulb and reflector. I carry it in a little leather belt pouch combination with a Leatherman tool.

And I have an Engergizer LED headlight - about $10-$12.

Champ:

Most any light, but especially white light will attract a wide variety of bugs. When I fish at night, if I need a light, I usually use a propane lantern placed 6-10 feet away from me but placed so that it will light the area I need. That draws the bugs away.

One problem with headlights, whether they be LED or other, is that they will tend to attract insects - right around your head.

The issue of wearing unofficial items of clothing with the official Scout uniform comes up all the time.

There are some parts of the Insignia Guide that generally addresses this:

Page 1 Official Policy under the section entitled Personal Commitment.

Official Uniforms Clause 2: "The official uniforms authorized as evidence of official relationship to the Boy Scouts of America shall be those approved by the action of the Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America from time to time, as illustrated and correctly described in the handbooks, catalogs, and other official publications of the Boy Scouts of America."

and:

Page 1 (continued on Page 2) under Exceprts From the Rules and Regulations under the section titled:

Protection of Uniforms Clause 4(a) "No alterations or additions to the official uniformation, as described in official publications, or the rules and regulations covering the wearing of the uniform and the proper combinations thereof on official occasions, may be authorized by any Scouting official or local council or any local executive board or committee, except the Executive Board of he Boy Scouts of America after consideration by the Program Group Committee."

I supposed that strictly speaking, a member should not wear long sleeved items UNDER the official short sleeved uniform shirt - because it is not should in any of the official publications. The same goes for long pants worn under official Scout shorts.

But then again, I read nothing official specifically prohibiting it.

Occasionally, I will wear a tan or beige long sleeved t-shirt under my offical BSA uniform shirt - only during outdoor activities. I consider it a health and safety issue - better to stay warm and well without wearing a jacket and maybe getting overheated.

The subject of jackets has also been discused. Both the Insignia Guide and the BSA catalog show "official" jackets. I supposed some would argue that those are the ONLY jackets that can be worn with the official uniform. But again, I read nothing that says that other jackets cannot be worn with the uniform.

Footgear. I can find almost nothing on the subject in official publications other than recommendations. There appears to be no "offical" footgear (shoes and boots - not socks). I was told not to wear "white tennis shoes or sneakers" to my Wood Badge course. When I asked why (and I don't wear white sneakers with my uniform anyway) - I was told it was for "uniformity" - They only specified wearing "dark colored footgear" Did that include "dark white - gray" - "Dark red - rather than bright red" and so on. I wore dark green and brown hiking "sneakers" and brown hiking boots. No one said anything to me. I have seen female Scouters wear high heels with the Scout unoform. Interesting.

I think that much of this should be just common sense and good taste while trying to stay as close to the official policies and regulations as possible.