Owl62

I know this is going to probably be very controversial but here goes.

What about Order of the Arrow membership for Venturing? Both youth and adult members?

Currently, OA membership is restricted to qualified members of Boy Scout Troops and Varsity Teams - both youth and adult.

I am an advocate of OA membership for qualified Venture Scouts and Scouters.

My rationale is that those in Venturing are part of the BSA and often do many of the same types of activities as Boy Scouts. Many Venture Scouts and Scouters who are not also in Boy Scout Troops are interested in OA. OA membership for Venturing would also help Ventuing becoming more inclusive to the overall Scouting program.

Requirements for membership would be essentially the same as for Boy Scout members:

Registered in a Venture Crew

Achieve at least the Bronze Award (preferably the Outdoor Bronze)

15 days and nights of camping in the past two years including one long term camp

Have the unit leader's approval

Live by the Venturing Oath and Code

Be selected by the members of the unit.

I really see no reason why Venture Scouts and Scouters who meet these or similar requirement cannot be members of the OA.

And if you are wondering, yes, I am a registered member of the OA.

Do you support allowing OA membership for Venturing? Why?

Comments (preferably objective and constructive):

I like the stars!

Like Scout insignia, they provide a kind of "instant recognition".

My vote is to bring them back and keep them!

Thanks.

How many of your units wear custom neckerchiefs?

Please describe your unit's custom neckerchief.

Besides the general BSA requirement that our uniforms be neat and clean, it would seem to me that most in Scouting would at least try to keep their uniforms neat and clean.

But in some units I have been with and in others that I have seen, it seams that many, especially Scouts, often wear uniforms are are not neat and not clean or both. We had one Scout who wore the same uniform for a long time, complete with dirt and food stains from about a year's worth of camping. You could almost tell where he had been and what he had been doing, and eating and drinking by just looking at his uniform (and I don't mean due to the insignia). Finally he cleaned it up himself. Another issue is uniform insginia attached either improperly or incorrectly (upside down, in the wrong position, stitching coming loose, attached ith safety pins, etc.)

My current unit has about "cleaned" up this problem. Seems line everyone now trys to be the sharpest in uniform.

We advise Scouts to hang their uniforms when not in use, both at home and in camp. We suggest that they bring one or more light plastic hangers to camp. Also for longer term camp, we bring laundry detergent (the kind pressed in big "pills" so that uniforms can be washed in camp. Seems to work. Some of them saw me hanging my uniforms at camp and soon took up the practice. I for one always wear a clean, pressed uniform (I have been known to take a travel iron to camp!)It is not unusual at all for me to do laundry at least one time, possibly more in camp.

I prefer patches that are sewn on with a machine and my wife does that for me. I don't might hand sewn patches, IF, they look neat. But I have seen some that look like they are sewn on with a carpet thread.

We prefer that Scouts not wear their uniforms when doing work, gathering firewood, cooking, etc. We advise them to try to keep their uniforms clean.

It is good to see a unit in sharp looking uniforms.

Course, as some will say, uniforming is a method, not a requirement.

What are your experiences and recommendations with keeping uniforms neat and clean?

Keeping dry and warm in the out of doors not only makes outings more comfortable and enjoyable, but can be critical from a health standpoint.

Seems like rain gear is always an issue on Scout outings. We always advise everyone to bring some type of rain gear. Most do, a few forget (one of the reasons we always bring a few extral oversized plastic trash bags). And those that do, including adults, well, you never know what they might bring.

Some bring some type of rain poncho - although most I see are inexpensive PVC ponchos. A few bring higher quality waterproof nylon ponchos.

Others bring rain suits - again, some of PVC others of waterproof nylon or even some Gortex.

Ponchos can serve multiple purposes: poncho, temporary shelter, ground cloth, tarp for covering gear or firewood). But they are not, at least in my opinion very good rain protection for long periods.

Rain suits are more limited as they are basically clothing. In addition to providing protection from wet weather, the jacket can serve as a jacket and or wind breaker and the pants also are wind resistant. Both can add an extra layer in cold weather. I buy my rain jackets extra large so I can wear them over layered clothing and or heavier jackets or coats.

Because has rained nearly everytime I camp, I always go at least double prepared for rain. I usually bring a waterproof nylon poncho (seldom used) and a waterproof nylon rain suit. Oh and I carry one of those inexpensive plastic "emergency" ponchos in my pocket or day pack. This seems to work for me and since again it rains nearly every time I camp, I guess whatever works is good.

And I almost always have a couple of extra plastice "emergency" ponchos just in case some Scout (and sometimes Scouter) needs one.

Does your unit have any preferences, recommendations, or requirements for rain gear for Scouts/Scouters?

Scouters, what rain gear do you use for Scouting?

Bob White:

What is the definition of a "unit leader"? Is that the Scoutmaster or does it include Assistant Scoutmasters? And I consider the Troop Committee "unit leaders" as well as they are the "board of directors" of the troop.

I do believe that no commissioner should be the commissioner for a unit that they are registered in. Just doesn't gel with me, regardless of any policy.

I know if very few volunteers at district or council level who are not also registered as volunteers in units. Sometimes as Scoutmasters, ASMs, Committee Members, etc. After all, the program is for the youth, the roots of the movement is in the unit not at the district level and above, and many prefer to maintain and spend fair amounts of time with the units - which I believe is as it is should be.

What about District (and Council, etc) committee members? We are being TOLD, that if you are on the District Committee, our primary registration MUST be with the district. Now they will allow those who do not want to do that to "help" with the District Committee, but will not register them as such. I know of no official requirement for District Committee members to be primarily registered with the district. There are those that believe that they can recruit the large number of people needed to be commissioners and district committee members that will/are not registered with units. I say good luck to that - I doubt it will ever happen. Oh there are a few that I know of, but again, most are registered with units.

All I know is that there are some very fine Scouters out there who will no longer even assist at the district level because of this. And the district suffers because of it.

Bob,

Thanks for the reply.

I can tie a Friendship Knot so say a dangle on a shirt pocket button.

However, I am having great difficulty tying one on a Wood Badge Bead leather thong. I just can't get it so that the knot and beads are at the proper place on the thong.

Any ideas to help? Anyone?

Thanks

I am wondering how many of you out there are registered in more than one Scouter position and what those positions are?

I am registered both as an Assistant Scoutmaster of a troop and as an Associate Advisor of a Venturing Crew.

I appears to me that there are many Scouters who hold has least two registrations.

And I see many Scouters who are associated with units and then perform work at the district or council level as well. But I am not sure if many of them just perform services at various levels but are not necessarily registered in all of them - even if they wear the insignia of the various positions.

It's my understanding that a Scouter should wear the uniform and insignia of the position for which they are currently working when wearing the uniform. For example, as an ASM I would wear that uniform when attending my troop activities and would wear a Venturing uniform when serving as an AA in the Venturing Crew. Same thing for unit Scouters who serve at say the District Committee. In the unit they would wear the uniform of whatever unit position they hold, but when performing District activities they would wear a uniform with District insignia (some Scouters in this situation use velcro on their position insigina and just change them, but district level Scouters are not supposed to wear unit numbers) and change between red and silver shoulder loops,

Does anyone one know if there is an official BSA policy on the number or types of positions that a Scouter can be registered?

Also, is there an official BSA policy on which registered position should or must be the primary registered position? For example, if a unit leader is also registered on the District Committee, which should or must be the primary registered positions. Some districts are apparently telling district committee members that they must have their primary registration for the district position.

Some districts seem to be discouraging multiple registrations for some reason. I know of very few Scouters who serve about the unit level that are not also registered in a unit.

Does anyone know where or how the giving and wearing of Friendship Knots started?

Also, does anyone have instructions on how to easily tie the Friendship Knot.

Thanks.

Does anyone know where or how the giving and wearing of Friendship Knots started?

Also, does anyone have instructions on how to easily tie the Friendship Knot.

Thanks.

Does anyone know where or how the giving and wearing of Friendship Knots started?

Also, does anyone have instructions on how to easily tie the Friendship Knot.

Thanks.

How sad - yet I am afraid common.

But I am proud to see all the support and thought for him and his family here.

I wish him and his family the best.

Thankfully, there is Scouting!

What kind of pocketknife do you carry and use for Scouting?

I carry an official Deluxe utility style knife made by Camillus. I carry it in a hand made leather knife pouch that I made myself.

I carry a similar knife but an Old Timer outside of Scouting when wearing jeans.

I have several LED Lights as there are many advanges to using them over incandescent lights - mainly because the LED "bulb" almost never burns out and batteries last MUCH longer with LED lights.

My personal LED favorites are:

Photon MicroLights. They are very small and light, make excellent key chain or necklace lights, use watch type lithium batteries. Come in three basic types I, II, and III. I is activated only by squeezing the housing. II is activated by a small slide switch, III is activated either by squeezing the housing and holding it or pressing on the other part of the housing and the light will stay on. The III also has three different levels of brightness and three speed of flashing. Photons come with several different colored lights. There is also a covert version that throws a beam and the buld is surounded buy a little tube.

I always have a Photon on a chain around my neck. I also put a small dot of velcro on one, with the other dot of velcro on the underside of the brim of all my Scouting and outdoors hats. Make a great little headlight!

I also have a LED headlight made by Eveready. Uses three AAA alkaline batteries. has two white lights and one red. Very light, and inexpensive - about $15. I have another LED headlight by RAY-O=VAC that is similar to the Eveready but adds a small 1" reflector with a high intensity bulb (similar to the reflector head of a minimag light. Also uses three AAA batteries. - the high intensity buld burns up the batteries. These LED headlights are MUCH less than other brands and work as well if not better. They are usally available at the regular discount and sporting goods stores.

I also have a small Eveready Energizer Folding LED light. Looks like a minature version of their folding fluorescent lantern but this one has two LED tubes. Uses 3 AA batteries and is about the size of a deck of playing card. You can run on either one bulb or two. Runs about 200 hours on a set of batteries. Makes a great tent light in a backpacking tent.

I have a few others too, but those are my favorites. I still find myself carrying a regular 2 AA MiniMag light in a belt pouch. - More out of habit than anything.

These LEDs are great!

For those of you who want to keep the brim of a campaign hat flat, here is how we did it in the Army. (We were not allowed to have "floppy" brims on our campaign hats but then again we were not supposed to spray them with anything either - so we did what we had to do)

Disclaimer: Use this method at your own risk. It never hurt any of my campaign hats but.... Also, Scotchguard can be hazardous. Again, at your own risk.

Caution: If you use scented hairspray you may draw various critters - especially bees.

Get a can of unsented AquaNet Hair Spray and a Can of ScotchGuard spray.

Remove the leather band(s) and any insignia from the hat.

Completely saturate the inside of the hat and bottom of the of the brim with the hairspray.

Place the hat on a smooth surface, like a formica table or counter top.

Leave the hat be and let it dry completely - this may take several days.

Lift the hat from the smooth surface - you may have to use a putty knife or something similar.

Take the hat outside and place it on something like a one gallon can.

Spray the outside/top of the hat with the Scotchguard. You will have to do this with several applications. The spray may leave a white residue on the hat but it will brush off with a stiff brush. CAUTION: DO NOT BREATH THE SCOTCHGUARD SPRAY - it is hazardous!

Let the hat dry completely.

Replace the leather band(s) and insignia.

The hat will now retain its shape and the brim should stay nice a flat for a long time, and the hat will be almost waterproof. Rain will run right off of it.

You will still want to keep the hat in a hat block when not in use.

For whomever it was that was asking how to "Break in" a Campaign hat: You really don't break them in. They will naturally assume the shape of your head with time and frequent wear.

I like campaign hats but tend not to wear mine much.

For those of you who want to keep the brim of a campaign hat flat, here is how we did it in the Army. (We were not allowed to have "floppy" brims on our campaign hats but then again we were not supposed to spray them with anything either - so we did what we had to do)

Disclaimer: Use this method at your own risk. It never hurt any of my campaign hats but.... Also, Scotchguard can be hazardous. Again, at your own risk.

Caution: If you use scented hairspray you may draw various critters - especially bees.

Get a can of unsented AquaNet Hair Spray and a Can of ScotchGuard spray.

Remove the leather band(s) and any insignia from the hat.

Completely saturate the inside of the hat and bottom of the of the brim with the hairspray.

Place the hat on a smooth surface, like a formica table or counter top.

Leave the hat be and let it dry completely - this may take several days.

Lift the hat from the smooth surface - you may have to use a putty knife or something similar.

Take the hat outside and place it on something like a one gallon can.

Spray the outside/top of the hat with the Scotchguard. You will have to do this with several applications. The spray may leave a white residue on the hat but it will brush off with a stiff brush. CAUTION: DO NOT BREATH THE SCOTCHGUARD SPRAY - it is hazardous!

Let the hat dry completely.

Replace the leather band(s) and insignia.

The hat will now retain its shape and the brim should stay nice a flat for a long time, and the hat will be almost waterproof. Rain will run right off of it.

You will still want to keep the hat in a hat block when not in use.

For whomever it was that was asking how to "Break in" a Campaign hat: You really don't break them in. They will naturally assume the shape of your head with time and frequent wear.

I like campaign hats but tend not to wear mine much.

I have some questions about tents in Scouting units out there:

What kind of Scouting unit?

Does the unit provide tents for the Scouts?

If provided, what brand and type?

Are there enough unit owned tents for everyone?

Do any or all of the Scouts and Scouters own and use their own tents?

What brand and type of privately owned tents are used?

Our Boy Scout troop has enough 2 and 4 man Eureka tents (They are green "pup" tent style - Timerline I think) for everyone but some Scouts and nearly all of the Scouters use their own tents - mostly dome style of various brands and types.

Our Venture crew has no unit owned tents - everyone provides their own.

Our troop, that does not currently have an adopted neckerchief, is considering adopting a troop neckerchief.

Neckerchiefs, at least to me, are a great Scout uniform tradition. Scout units that wear them really look sharp. Back when I was a Scout, the neckerchief was required with the official uniform in our troop. We wor a red neckerchief with yellow edge bands and BSA logo. I still have mine.

BTW - before there a a bunch of comments on what is official, etc. There is nearly a full page of information in the Insignia Guide 2003-2005 on pages 6-7 that details what is authorized and how to wear them.

In the BSA catalog, there are three basic types of stock "official" Boy Scout neckerchiefs available:

Solid Color (5 different colors available) with white imprint BSA logo

Mostly solid Color (6 different colors available) with printed gold or black broad edge stripe

Solid Color (11 different colors available) with embroidered BSA logo.

My experience is that the printed logos wear off over time.

There is also a special Kente cloth neckerchief.

I would like to know if your Boy Scout Troop:

1. Has adopted a troop neckerchief?

2. If so, is it a official stock neckerchief or a custom neckerchief?

3. How is the neckerchief worn? (Under the shirt collar, shirt collar turned under) Do all unit member wear it the same way or may they opt for either under the collar or collar turned under on an individual basis?

4. Please describe the adopted neckerchief. What is the basic color? I am especially interested in hearing about custom neckerchiefs.

5. If your troop has adopted a neckerchief is and when is its wear required?

6. Do all members of the troop including adults wear the adopted neckerchief? If not, what if any do others wear? Some variations that I have seen are:

Each patrol has their own neckerchief

Each rank has a different neckerchief

Senior Patrol Leaders and Patrol Leaders wear a different neckerchief

Adults wear different neckerchiefs than the Scouts.

Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters wear a different neckerchief than other adults.

Accordng to the insignia guide this is not correct but might make sense from an identification standpoint.

Some units present new Scouts with a Troop Neckerchief (and sometimes the Handbook and other items). Does your troop do that?

Also, about neckerchief slides? If your troop wears neckerchiefs, do they wear the official Boy Scout Neckerchief Slide or do they wear custom made neckerchief slides or woggles? What are some of the custom slides that are worn.

Our troop is currently leaning towards one of the official stock neckerchiefs in a solid color with embroidered BSA logo. They could each wear at their option either the official BSA neckerchief slide or make a custom slide. Right now they are talking about the black neckerchief with silver embroidered logo. The adults would prefer something less somber, but it is up to the Scouts. We all, including adults, plan on wearing the same. We plan to wear them mostly for formal occasions (Courts of Honor, inspections, Scoutmaster Conferences, Boards of Review, visting other units, Opening and Dinner formations at Summer Camp, Camporee, etc.)

Does anyone out there use the Kente neckerchief? Does the whole unit wear it or is it for special purposes?

Also would like to hear about any special neckerchiefs that are out there.

Adults in our Troop who have completed Wood Badge do normally wear the Wood Badge neckerchief for special occasiions, and Eagles Scouts do the same with the Eagle Scout neckerchief.

I would appreciate all comments and opinions.

Thanks.

Owl62

My vote is for suspenders too - for common sense reasons....

And there is nothing that I can find in the Insignia Guide that forbids the wear of suspenders.....

I can find very little in the 2003-2005 Insignia Guide as to what constitutes an official "complete" uniform. Many of the insignia are optional or the wearer "may" wear the items.

Some references to what must be worn are:

Page 1. "No alteration" means to me, that if the US Flag insignia is sewn on the uniform shirt, it should not be removed - same for the Boy Scouts of America strip - etc.

Page 7: Cub Scouts wear the offical Cub Scout navy blue web belt with metal buckle and Cub Scout Emblem. Boy Scout wear the offical olive web belt with the metal Boy Scout Buckle (may wear the leather camp belt with offical BSA buckles as a option. This at least implies that a belt must be worn with uniforms.

I can't really find anything in the guide that REQUIRES wear of much else in the way of insignia. Although I may have missed something or misinterpreted the written word. There are references in the guide where in my opinion that the required wear of certain insignia is at least implied.

There are illustrations that show where insignia are to be worn if worn.

I find no REQUIREMENT to wear colored shoulder loops, Council shoulder patches, positon or rank insignia, etc. in most cases.

There may be other publications that dictate some requirements. And admittedly, I have not read every single word in the guide.

I think a lot of uniforming, in addition to the official rules, should be based on common sense. After all, not everyone is priviledged to wear the Scout uniform. Registered members should strive to wear the official uniform properly and to wear insignia items that at least identify their registered status and at least some accomplishments. (A Scout is... Loyal....)

I encourage all members to wear the uniform as correctly as possible. And not just correctly but clean and neat. I am saddened to see members wearing wrinkled, soiled, or torn uniforms. (A Scout is... Clean...) I think of that as not showing respect for the uniform, the organization, or it's members. I try to make uniform corrections to others quietly and privately (A Scout is. Courteous; Kind...)

Personally I wear little on my uniform other than the Flag patch, BSA strip, council patch, unit numbers, position patch, trained patch, OA lodge insignia. For special occasions I may add my WB beads, neckerchief and woggle, service stars, and a few others.

I do however tend to wear from my left shirt pocket button, one of the many friendship knots given me. They are some of my most cherished Scout "awards". I can find no reference to friendship knots in the guide. But, "A Scout is....Friendly...."

The 2003-2005 BSA Insignia Guide is very clear on services stars on page 42:

"Service stars may be worn by all youth and adult members who have at least one year tenure with the Boy Scouts of America. The stars are worn with the appriopriate color background for the phase of Scouting in which the service was rendered. If an individual's primary registration is in one phase of Scouting and later in another, separate stars with the appropriate background and numerals may be worn simultaneously. Or, leaders may combine youth and adult tenure into one or two stars with blue background."

Based on this it is proper for an registered adult Scout leader to wear any or all services stars for service rendered, at their option - including those earned as a youth member - as long as the stars are displayed properly on the uniform.

You might want to go to www.scouting.org which is the BSA National website and click on the local counci finder at the top of the page. Then type in a zip code and it will take you to the local council website. You should be able to at least find a telephone number or maybe even a listing of units with contact information.

Good luck.

Is there anyone out there that is associated with or has knowledge of the Baden-Powell Scouting Association that would share information about that organization here?

Thanks.

I am still trying to determine the proper way to wear the leather belt type hat band (not the little chin strap) on the BSA Campaign hat.

Most pictures I have seen show the leather hat band worn with the buckle on the center of the left side of the crown with the distal end of the belt pointing to the rear.

The Insignia Guide does not even address the leather band. Is it even required? The only insignia mentioned for the campaign hat is the "adult universal hat pin" and it says that adults "may" wear that pin, which indicates to me that it is optional. Perhaps the leather band is optional too?

Does anyone out there know for sure what the proper wear position for the leather hat band is?

Thanks.

While I have not seen them available for regular sale for a long time, the old red with white lettering council or communittee strips are seen from time to time. I still have mine from a council. The Insignia Guide says on page 4 that "A custom designed multicolor shoulder emblem is designed for each council...." It says nothing about the older red and white version although since they were once auhorized, I see no reason why they cannot be worn - if worn properly. I have no idea why the member of that unit would wear them on their right sleeves. Perhaps one person sewed them all on and did not know the proper position for them, or maybe the unit leader gave incorrect information. Or maybe they are trying to make a statement. Seems like their Unit Commissioner or someone else could show them an insignia guide....

As for the Baden Powell Scouting Association - they just might have something. They appear to be growing in numbers.